Memo Woes

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03121202698008
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Re: Memo Woes

Postby 03121202698008 » Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:09 pm

Metaread wrote:If practice commentaries aren't binding law, can they be used in making an argument, or is that a stupid idea?


It is rarely if ever a good idea. Unless it's a restatement, don't cite to it.

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ph14
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Re: Memo Woes

Postby ph14 » Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:12 pm

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Last edited by ph14 on Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

03121202698008
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Re: Memo Woes

Postby 03121202698008 » Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:13 pm

ph14 wrote:Not sure why this needs edited out...but whatever.


Is it an alternate test or something unique? Was there something else possibly motivating the court?
Last edited by 03121202698008 on Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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daesonesb
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Re: Memo Woes

Postby daesonesb » Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:16 pm

maxm2764 wrote:I. Hate. This. Goddamn. Memo.

Studying for exams sounds fucking wonderful at this point.


No you'll miss the memo. Writing your memo while keeping abreast of class reading is easy. It just takes good scheduling.

Studying for 1L finals is a much more stressful experience. Sorry!

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ph14
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Re: Memo Woes

Postby ph14 » Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:18 pm

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Last edited by ph14 on Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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daesonesb
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Re: Memo Woes

Postby daesonesb » Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:36 pm

Just as an added aside: Although it might feel weird with finals coming up to be putting in 3 hours a day for the two weeks leading up to your memo, the finished product will thank you. These things are best done slowly and with much tinkering of language and arguments. If you can have a rough copy finished for editing a few days prior to your due date, you are going to be much better off. This seems like obvious advice, but there were many kids in my year (self included) who were trying to fix formatting and get under the page limit the night before the memo was due.
Last edited by daesonesb on Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ph14
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Re: Memo Woes

Postby ph14 » Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:39 pm

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Last edited by ph14 on Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Lasers
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Re: Memo Woes

Postby Lasers » Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:13 am

got a FCKING b+ on my first graded memo.

eff me HARD. gotta step it up now and get an A on the final memo... :x :|

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applepiecrust
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Re: Memo Woes

Postby applepiecrust » Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:29 am

Never more glad for ungraded LRW than after reading this thread.
The only downside is that I feel less motivated to actually do the work.

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ilovesf
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Re: Memo Woes

Postby ilovesf » Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:34 am

Lasers wrote:got a FCKING b+ on my first graded memo.

eff me HARD. gotta step it up now and get an A on the final memo... :x :|

now you feel my pain

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Lasers
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Re: Memo Woes

Postby Lasers » Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:26 pm

ilovesf wrote:
Lasers wrote:got a FCKING b+ on my first graded memo.

eff me HARD. gotta step it up now and get an A on the final memo... :x :|

now you feel my pain

yep. :cry:

also, there's no way the median is a b+ like you said earlier...or at least it isn't for my teacher. i'm pretty sure the median is closer to a B from what i've heard. makes sense that most people out of the 12 or so per class get a B+, B, or B-, with the few (un)fortunate ones getting an A/A- or C+/C.

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ilovesf
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Re: Memo Woes

Postby ilovesf » Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:40 pm

Lasers wrote:
ilovesf wrote:
Lasers wrote:got a FCKING b+ on my first graded memo.

eff me HARD. gotta step it up now and get an A on the final memo... :x :|

now you feel my pain

yep. :cry:

also, there's no way the median is a b+ like you said earlier...or at least it isn't for my teacher. i'm pretty sure the median is closer to a B from what i've heard. makes sense that most people out of the 12 or so per class get a B+, B, or B-, with the few (un)fortunate ones getting an A/A- or C+/C.

My TA told me no one got an A in my class. I think the b+ is for the final grade, not for each memo. I'll ask my TA tomorrow about the curve.

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ph14
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Re: Memo Woes

Postby ph14 » Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:49 pm

ilovesf wrote:
Lasers wrote:
ilovesf wrote:
Lasers wrote:got a FCKING b+ on my first graded memo.

eff me HARD. gotta step it up now and get an A on the final memo... :x :|

now you feel my pain

yep. :cry:

also, there's no way the median is a b+ like you said earlier...or at least it isn't for my teacher. i'm pretty sure the median is closer to a B from what i've heard. makes sense that most people out of the 12 or so per class get a B+, B, or B-, with the few (un)fortunate ones getting an A/A- or C+/C.

My TA told me no one got an A in my class. I think the b+ is for the final grade, not for each memo. I'll ask my TA tomorrow about the curve.


Still haven't gotten the grade for my first memo yet. Should get it sometime this week. I have a feeling i'm heading for median on it.

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jessuf
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Re: Memo Woes

Postby jessuf » Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:29 pm

I just did the outline for my final memo. I am once again worried about the word count. I'm basically limited to 12 pages, yet I have two causes of action that each include several elements. My closed memo was 12 pages, and I had one cause of action with two elements. No idea how I will make this work. Lots of parenthetical explanations, I guess!

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Re: Memo Woes

Postby jessuf » Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:29 pm

Also, does anyone have requirements for which sources/how many to use?

I am supposed to cite 10 state cases, 3 federal cases, and 1 secondary source. Seems like a lot.

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Re: Memo Woes

Postby ilovesf » Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:06 am

Jessuf wrote:Also, does anyone have requirements for which sources/how many to use?

I am supposed to cite 10 state cases, 3 federal cases, and 1 secondary source. Seems like a lot.

can you use string cites?

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TheFutureLawyer
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Re: Memo Woes

Postby TheFutureLawyer » Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:37 am

Jessuf wrote:Also, does anyone have requirements for which sources/how many to use?

I am supposed to cite 10 state cases, 3 federal cases, and 1 secondary source. Seems like a lot.


I used pretty much that (replace federal cases with other state cases though). Mine was near 20 pages.

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ilovesf
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Re: Memo Woes

Postby ilovesf » Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:38 am

TheFutureLawyer wrote:
Jessuf wrote:Also, does anyone have requirements for which sources/how many to use?

I am supposed to cite 10 state cases, 3 federal cases, and 1 secondary source. Seems like a lot.


I used pretty much that (replace federal cases with other state cases though). Mine was near 20 pages.

:shock:

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TheFutureLawyer
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Re: Memo Woes

Postby TheFutureLawyer » Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:03 am

ilovesf wrote:
TheFutureLawyer wrote:
Jessuf wrote:Also, does anyone have requirements for which sources/how many to use?

I am supposed to cite 10 state cases, 3 federal cases, and 1 secondary source. Seems like a lot.


I used pretty much that (replace federal cases with other state cases though). Mine was near 20 pages.

:shock:


Didn't help me. Still got nearly the worst grade out of like a dozen students. The main problem for me is that I didn't really synthesize cases very well, which seems to be HUGE for this professor.

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Lasers
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Re: Memo Woes

Postby Lasers » Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:05 am

ilovesf wrote:
Lasers wrote:
ilovesf wrote:
Lasers wrote:got a FCKING b+ on my first graded memo.

eff me HARD. gotta step it up now and get an A on the final memo... :x :|

now you feel my pain

yep. :cry:

also, there's no way the median is a b+ like you said earlier...or at least it isn't for my teacher. i'm pretty sure the median is closer to a B from what i've heard. makes sense that most people out of the 12 or so per class get a B+, B, or B-, with the few (un)fortunate ones getting an A/A- or C+/C.

My TA told me no one got an A in my class. I think the b+ is for the final grade, not for each memo. I'll ask my TA tomorrow about the curve.

ah, ok.

if the final grades are curved in that way, then that could make sense. i don't know anyone that got an A on their first graded memo.

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Re: Memo Woes

Postby 03121202698008 » Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:12 am

TheFutureLawyer wrote:
ilovesf wrote:
TheFutureLawyer wrote:
Jessuf wrote:Also, does anyone have requirements for which sources/how many to use?

I am supposed to cite 10 state cases, 3 federal cases, and 1 secondary source. Seems like a lot.


I used pretty much that (replace federal cases with other state cases though). Mine was near 20 pages.

:shock:


Didn't help me. Still got nearly the worst grade out of like a dozen students. The main problem for me is that I didn't really synthesize cases very well, which seems to be HUGE for this professor.


It should be huge for all professors. Most of legal writing is learning to be pithy, when to use an explanatory parenthetical, etc. Some of those cases should likely be string cites or explanatory parentheticals. This is a real-world practice problem as well. Courts have local rules as to permissible lengths for briefings.

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crossarmant
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Re: Memo Woes

Postby crossarmant » Tue Oct 25, 2011 12:07 pm

My professor would lose her shit if we string-cited anything in our memo. Though, I'm honestly thinking of following some of the other guys' suggestions of just doing okay in LRW and taking a B+ or something and focusing my efforts on the other 3 substantive classes and trying for the As there since they're 4 credits instead of 2 like LRW.

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Re: Memo Woes

Postby 03121202698008 » Tue Oct 25, 2011 12:43 pm

crossarmant wrote:My professor would lose her shit if we string-cited anything in our memo. Though, I'm honestly thinking of following some of the other guys' suggestions of just doing okay in LRW and taking a B+ or something and focusing my efforts on the other 3 substantive classes and trying for the As there since they're 4 credits instead of 2 like LRW.


Are you sure about that? String cites are not only acceptable they are encouraged and are standard practice. If she won't allow a string cite with an explanatory parenthetical, I'd report her to the Dean because she's doing you a major diservice.

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ilovesf
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Re: Memo Woes

Postby ilovesf » Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:09 pm

blowhard wrote:
crossarmant wrote:My professor would lose her shit if we string-cited anything in our memo. Though, I'm honestly thinking of following some of the other guys' suggestions of just doing okay in LRW and taking a B+ or something and focusing my efforts on the other 3 substantive classes and trying for the As there since they're 4 credits instead of 2 like LRW.


Are you sure about that? String cites are not only acceptable they are encouraged and are standard practice. If she won't allow a string cite with an explanatory parenthetical, I'd report her to the Dean because she's doing you a major diservice.

My LWR prof took us to meet with a Court of Appeal justice this week, and they both said that in practice they hate string citations and don't like to see them. But they made a point that we have to use them in our memos now because it is imperative that you can use them in case your future employer likes them.

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Re: Memo Woes

Postby 03121202698008 » Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:57 pm

ilovesf wrote:
blowhard wrote:
crossarmant wrote:My professor would lose her shit if we string-cited anything in our memo. Though, I'm honestly thinking of following some of the other guys' suggestions of just doing okay in LRW and taking a B+ or something and focusing my efforts on the other 3 substantive classes and trying for the As there since they're 4 credits instead of 2 like LRW.


Are you sure about that? String cites are not only acceptable they are encouraged and are standard practice. If she won't allow a string cite with an explanatory parenthetical, I'd report her to the Dean because she's doing you a major diservice.

My LWR prof took us to meet with a Court of Appeal justice this week, and they both said that in practice they hate string citations and don't like to see them. But they made a point that we have to use them in our memos now because it is imperative that you can use them in case your future employer likes them.


Many people overuse them. However, there are times they are appropriate. The judge I worked for hated multiple case discussions when a string cite simply would have done. E.g. Different CoA holding something and a district court in our circuit adopting it. Or, showing that multiple circuits other than ours had adopted the same rule and while ours was silent.




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