Memo Woes

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Extension_Cord
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Re: Memo Woes

Postby Extension_Cord » Sun Nov 13, 2011 11:17 pm

My memo is due next week, 15 pages. Im 90% finished (Every section and 1 revision has been completed) and not pressed for lines. Feels good. I figure another 6 hours this week and its complete.

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DocHawkeye
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Re: Memo Woes

Postby DocHawkeye » Sun Nov 13, 2011 11:18 pm

ph14 wrote:
Jessuf wrote:Does anyone else have a pretty strict word count restriction?


I have a strict page limit. The open memo is killing me, ugh.


15 pages but we must use Courrier New font, 12 point and one inch margins. Totally not enough space. My draft is 17 pages.

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gdane
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Re: Memo Woes

Postby gdane » Mon Nov 14, 2011 12:22 am

1600 word limit.

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TheFutureLawyer
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Re: Memo Woes

Postby TheFutureLawyer » Mon Nov 14, 2011 12:52 am

gdane wrote:1600 word limit.


Yep. I passed that about 6100 words ago, not even kidding.

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NYC Law
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Re: Memo Woes

Postby NYC Law » Mon Nov 14, 2011 1:10 am

Are my memos just abnormally short? First one had to be 5 pages - mine was 5.25 and the teacher seemed to strongly disapprove, I think I took a big hit for that. Final memo has a 10 page limit.

Got median on the first one (a B/B+), I'm pretty impressed by that though since I honestly didn't do much with it at all. Never proofread, whipped it up in one sitting, was distracted by personal stuff, and for the rewrite just went through and line edited to exactly implement whatever changes she said.

I'm making progress for the longer memo though, I'm actually working on it a week in advance. I'll be satisfied with a B+. The class is a year long and only worth 2 credits, so I'm not going to stress out too much over these memos when my 5 credit substantive classes have exams right around the corner.

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crossarmant
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Re: Memo Woes

Postby crossarmant » Mon Nov 14, 2011 1:21 am

NYC Law wrote:Are my memos just abnormally short? First one had to be 5 pages - mine was 5.25 and the teacher seemed to strongly disapprove, I think I took a big hit for that. Final memo has a 10 page limit.

Got median on the first one (a B/B+), I'm pretty impressed by that though since I honestly didn't do much with it at all. Never proofread, whipped it up in one sitting, was distracted by personal stuff, and for the rewrite just went through and line edited to exactly implement whatever changes she said.

I'm making progress for the longer memo though, I'm actually working on it a week in advance. I'll be satisfied with a B+. The class is a year long and only worth 2 credits, so I'm not going to stress out too much over these memos when my 5 credit substantive classes have exams right around the corner.


I'm the same way, it's 10 pages max for the final, 7 for the practice. 2 credits compared to 4 for the rest. I've been working on it, but in a group of 15 I'll take a B+ as long as I can rock an A in all the real classes.

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Extension_Cord
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Re: Memo Woes

Postby Extension_Cord » Mon Nov 14, 2011 1:24 am

gdane wrote:1600 word limit.


Dang, thats tough.

The Courrier font thing sucks too.

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Re: Memo Woes

Postby 03121202698008 » Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:05 am

NYC Law wrote:Are my memos just abnormally short? First one had to be 5 pages - mine was 5.25 and the teacher seemed to strongly disapprove, I think I took a big hit for that.


They expect you to stringently abide by page limits because the courts do as well. There are a few famous CoA opinions with lawyers getting beaten down for exceeding the limit or playing margin nonsense. I know of a district judge or two that will refuse anything over the limit...meaning if you're at the deadline you're screwed. Another judge will just flat-out sanction for not following the rules.

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gdane
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Re: Memo Woes

Postby gdane » Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:57 pm

Can someone please clear this up for me please? I know youre not supposed to cite to secondary sources in your memo, but what about cases that reference a secondary source?

My major case does one of these in listing the elements of a certain tort: See Restatement (Second) of Torts §§ 558B, 580A-580B

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Re: Memo Woes

Postby 03121202698008 » Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:21 pm

gdane wrote:Can someone please clear this up for me please? I know youre not supposed to cite to secondary sources in your memo, but what about cases that reference a secondary source?

My major case does one of these in listing the elements of a certain tort: See Restatement (Second) of Torts §§ 558B, 580A-580B


In real life, you can cite secondary sources. Especially restatements. Many (if not most) states adopt the second restatement outright so the comments are helpful. For your memo...do whatever your prof suggests.

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DocHawkeye
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Re: Memo Woes

Postby DocHawkeye » Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:47 pm

blowhard wrote:
gdane wrote:Can someone please clear this up for me please? I know youre not supposed to cite to secondary sources in your memo, but what about cases that reference a secondary source?

My major case does one of these in listing the elements of a certain tort: See Restatement (Second) of Torts §§ 558B, 580A-580B


In real life, you can cite secondary sources. Especially restatements. Many (if not most) states adopt the second restatement outright so the comments are helpful. For your memo...do whatever your prof suggests.


It seems to me that if a case in your jurisdiction cites a restatement, then the restatement is good law so you should be able to cite it. I would probably just cite the case, though since it gets you to where you need to be.

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jim
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Re: Memo Woes

Postby jim » Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:51 am

Finished. Feels good man.

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Re: Memo Woes

Postby 03121202698008 » Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:00 am

DocHawkeye wrote:
blowhard wrote:
gdane wrote:Can someone please clear this up for me please? I know youre not supposed to cite to secondary sources in your memo, but what about cases that reference a secondary source?

My major case does one of these in listing the elements of a certain tort: See Restatement (Second) of Torts §§ 558B, 580A-580B


In real life, you can cite secondary sources. Especially restatements. Many (if not most) states adopt the second restatement outright so the comments are helpful. For your memo...do whatever your prof suggests.


It seems to me that if a case in your jurisdiction cites a restatement, then the restatement is good law so you should be able to cite it. I would probably just cite the case, though since it gets you to where you need to be.


Yeah, I mean I'd tie it into the case for sure. But if the court adopts a rule, the comments are fair game if you're arguing to extend/limit that rule.

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JusticeHarlan
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Re: Memo Woes

Postby JusticeHarlan » Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:45 am

gdane wrote:Can someone please clear this up for me please? I know youre not supposed to cite to secondary sources in your memo, but what about cases that reference a secondary source?

My major case does one of these in listing the elements of a certain tort: See Restatement (Second) of Torts §§ 558B, 580A-580B

I wouldn't bother with it. If you really want to throw it in there, you can always cite "Smith v. Doe (quoting Restatement (Second) of Torts §§ 558B)." But that sounds needlessly complex for an LRW memo. I'd ask your professor, but citing to the case is probably sufficient.

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crossarmant
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Re: Memo Woes

Postby crossarmant » Tue Nov 15, 2011 10:09 am

So, everyone is talking about how they're pulling all-nighters on the memo and eternally working on it.... Am I missing something? We did the research for it 3 weeks ago, did two drafts and then another in-class revision last week. It's 10 pages at the maximum and only 6-7 of which is legitimate discussion. I don't know how this requires the around the clock care to the point that people are skipping 70 minutes of class to work on it some more. I really hope that I'm not thinking this is simpler than it is.

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ph14
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Re: Memo Woes

Postby ph14 » Tue Nov 15, 2011 10:13 am

crossarmant wrote:So, everyone is talking about how they're pulling all-nighters on the memo and eternally working on it.... Am I missing something? We did the research for it 3 weeks ago, did two drafts and then another in-class revision last week. It's 10 pages at the maximum and only 6-7 of which is legitimate discussion. I don't know how this requires the around the clock care to the point that people are skipping 70 minutes of class to work on it some more. I really hope that I'm not thinking this is simpler than it is.


Some people front load it, others wait until just before it is due. If you've put in your work up to this point, I wouldn't worry about it.

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lifestooquick
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Re: Memo Woes

Postby lifestooquick » Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:23 am

My conference on my draft is today, hoping it's not too painful

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Kabuo
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Re: Memo Woes

Postby Kabuo » Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:29 am

ph14 wrote:
crossarmant wrote:So, everyone is talking about how they're pulling all-nighters on the memo and eternally working on it.... Am I missing something? We did the research for it 3 weeks ago, did two drafts and then another in-class revision last week. It's 10 pages at the maximum and only 6-7 of which is legitimate discussion. I don't know how this requires the around the clock care to the point that people are skipping 70 minutes of class to work on it some more. I really hope that I'm not thinking this is simpler than it is.


Some people front load it, others wait until just before it is due. If you've put in your work up to this point, I wouldn't worry about it.


LS has turned me into a morning person, so I've spent the last two weeks waking up at 5 and getting in 3 good hours of work on it before class 4 days a week. I prefer this way so much to what I did for the first one. People were pulling all nighters before the draft was due, and I sort of just had to edit it. Felt great.

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gdane
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Re: Memo Woes

Postby gdane » Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:36 pm

JusticeHarlan wrote:
gdane wrote:Can someone please clear this up for me please? I know youre not supposed to cite to secondary sources in your memo, but what about cases that reference a secondary source?

My major case does one of these in listing the elements of a certain tort: See Restatement (Second) of Torts §§ 558B, 580A-580B

I wouldn't bother with it. If you really want to throw it in there, you can always cite "Smith v. Doe (quoting Restatement (Second) of Torts §§ 558B)." But that sounds needlessly complex for an LRW memo. I'd ask your professor, but citing to the case is probably sufficient.

Unfortunately, my professor is not very approachable. I'll ask anyway. I'll use your quoting restatement suggestion just in case though. Thanks!

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crossarmant
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Re: Memo Woes

Postby crossarmant » Tue Nov 15, 2011 5:36 pm

Kabuo wrote:LS has turned me into a morning person, so I've spent the last two weeks waking up at 5 and getting in 3 good hours of work on it before class 4 days a week. I prefer this way so much to what I did for the first one. People were pulling all nighters before the draft was due, and I sort of just had to edit it. Felt great.


3 hours x 4 days a week x 5 weeks = 60 hours spent on this assignment.

Not to sound like a slacker, but while this is the sole grade for this class, it seems odd to pour that much time into one research paper. Especially since in the practicing world something like this is supposed to take like 10 hours tops and is much larger than what we're doing. Makes me feel like I'm being lazy, but it just doesn't seem like it requires that much time.

Maybe mine is just awful and I'm getting a C on it.... Who knows.

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Re: Memo Woes

Postby 03121202698008 » Tue Nov 15, 2011 5:44 pm

They purposely pick topics that are hard to explain. In reality, most memos are fairly open and shut with much simpler rules.

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jessuf
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Re: Memo Woes

Postby jessuf » Tue Nov 15, 2011 6:47 pm

i am done but seriously over word count by ~600 words. i hate that feeling.

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Re: Memo Woes

Postby ilovesf » Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:38 pm

Jessuf wrote:i am done but seriously over word count by ~600 words. i hate that feeling.

dude cut it down

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Re: Memo Woes

Postby 03121202698008 » Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:05 pm

Just an FYI, professors will probably grade going over the word limit harshly as court's also impose strict word limits.

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NYC Law
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Re: Memo Woes

Postby NYC Law » Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:06 pm

blowhard wrote:Just an FYI, professors will probably grade going over the word limit harshly as court's also impose strict word limits.


It's the truth... :|


I still got a median grade, but just for going a paragraph over the prof. put "Follow the rules!!" with a frowny face... could have been an A range grade if not for that.




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