Memo Woes

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crossarmant
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Re: Memo Woes

Postby crossarmant » Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:33 pm

ilovesf wrote:
blowhard wrote:
crossarmant wrote:My professor would lose her shit if we string-cited anything in our memo. Though, I'm honestly thinking of following some of the other guys' suggestions of just doing okay in LRW and taking a B+ or something and focusing my efforts on the other 3 substantive classes and trying for the As there since they're 4 credits instead of 2 like LRW.


Are you sure about that? String cites are not only acceptable they are encouraged and are standard practice. If she won't allow a string cite with an explanatory parenthetical, I'd report her to the Dean because she's doing you a major diservice.

My LWR prof took us to meet with a Court of Appeal justice this week, and they both said that in practice they hate string citations and don't like to see them. But they made a point that we have to use them in our memos now because it is imperative that you can use them in case your future employer likes them.


My prof is like this. She says it's like dirtying up a memo and that unless you are explicitly applying how that case ties to a memo that it's just wasting time. She brought us one a number of field trips to various law offices, DA's, Public Defenders, etc. to illustrate how legal writing incorporates into real practice. Through all of that, she stresses keeping it clean and keeping every case relevant, even her reviewing of our practice memos came down to verbally reading it like a supervising attorney. So, I can understand her hatred of string cites, but it does become mildly inconvenient.

03121202698008
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Re: Memo Woes

Postby 03121202698008 » Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:35 pm

crossarmant wrote:
My prof is like this. She says it's like dirtying up a memo and that unless you are explicitly applying how that case ties to a memo that it's just wasting time. She brought us one a number of field trips to various law offices, DA's, Public Defenders, etc. to illustrate how legal writing incorporates into real practice. Through all of that, she stresses keeping it clean and keeping every case relevant, even her reviewing of our practice memos came down to verbally reading it like a supervising attorney. So, I can understand her hatred of string cites, but it does become mildly inconvenient.


I get all of this, but the posters talking about 20+ cases...unless this is a huge ass brief that is a lot with no string cited or explanatory parentheticals.

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crossarmant
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Re: Memo Woes

Postby crossarmant » Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:41 pm

blowhard wrote:I get all of this, but the posters talking about 20+ cases...unless this is a huge ass brief that is a lot with no string cited or explanatory parentheticals.


Oh hell no, all of our briefs are like 10 cases at most.

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ilovesf
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Re: Memo Woes

Postby ilovesf » Mon Nov 07, 2011 2:44 pm

bump because my final memo is due tomorrow at noon. bahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

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lifestooquick
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Re: Memo Woes

Postby lifestooquick » Mon Nov 07, 2011 2:59 pm

My draft is due on Thursday night. FML until then :(

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ilovesf
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Re: Memo Woes

Postby ilovesf » Mon Nov 07, 2011 3:03 pm

lifestooquick wrote:My draft is due on Thursday night. FML until then :(

part of me wishes I had until Thursday, the other part of me is happy I'll never have to think about LWR ever again (until I get my grade) after tomorrow.

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Re: Memo Woes

Postby 03121202698008 » Mon Nov 07, 2011 3:49 pm

ilovesf wrote:
lifestooquick wrote:My draft is due on Thursday night. FML until then :(

part of me wishes I had until Thursday, the other part of me is happy I'll never have to think about LWR ever again (until I get my grade) after tomorrow.


You're done after one semester? We had it all year. How do you cover all of that so quickly?

We did open/closed memo, court brief, oral arguments, motion, small employment contract, etc.

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ilovesf
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Re: Memo Woes

Postby ilovesf » Mon Nov 07, 2011 3:55 pm

blowhard wrote:
ilovesf wrote:
lifestooquick wrote:My draft is due on Thursday night. FML until then :(

part of me wishes I had until Thursday, the other part of me is happy I'll never have to think about LWR ever again (until I get my grade) after tomorrow.


You're done after one semester? We had it all year. How do you cover all of that so quickly?

We did open/closed memo, court brief, oral arguments, motion, small employment contract, etc.

We have moot court next semester, so we will still be writing but it will be different. I don't really know the difference between open/closed memos because our three memos were the same: we got a prompt signaling a major issue or two/three issues, researched it by ourselves, and wrote a memo on it. We also had to write a demand letter.

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Lasers
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Re: Memo Woes

Postby Lasers » Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:36 pm

ilovesf wrote:bump because my final memo is due tomorrow at noon. bahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

haha, stay strong!

as for me, i don't even know what to do with my memo...there isn't much i was told to change. i'll just read it over a couple times before i send it in tomorrow.

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jessuf
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Re: Memo Woes

Postby jessuf » Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:07 pm

ilovesf wrote:
blowhard wrote:
ilovesf wrote:
lifestooquick wrote:My draft is due on Thursday night. FML until then :(

part of me wishes I had until Thursday, the other part of me is happy I'll never have to think about LWR ever again (until I get my grade) after tomorrow.


You're done after one semester? We had it all year. How do you cover all of that so quickly?

We did open/closed memo, court brief, oral arguments, motion, small employment contract, etc.

We have moot court next semester, so we will still be writing but it will be different. I don't really know the difference between open/closed memos because our three memos were the same: we got a prompt signaling a major issue or two/three issues, researched it by ourselves, and wrote a memo on it. We also had to write a demand letter.


Sounds like what I have next semester, but my school calls it LRW 2. We focus on appellate briefs, etc.

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Extension_Cord
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Re: Memo Woes

Postby Extension_Cord » Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:07 pm

Dang, we just had 2 memos and we were bitching.

10 pager and a 15 pager

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ilovesf
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Re: Memo Woes

Postby ilovesf » Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:33 pm

Jessuf wrote:Sounds like what I have next semester, but my school calls it LRW 2. We focus on appellate briefs, etc.

do you guys have to argue it? we choose our section based on topics and concentrate on that all semester, and it culminates in an argument in front of a panel of judges. We're also graded on a 10 point cutoff, where if we make more than 10 mistakes in any of our briefs (ie not adding a correct space) then we fail the class, with one chance to make it up over the summer. This is at least what I've heard from 2Ls.

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jessuf
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Re: Memo Woes

Postby jessuf » Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:08 pm

ilovesf wrote:
Jessuf wrote:Sounds like what I have next semester, but my school calls it LRW 2. We focus on appellate briefs, etc.

do you guys have to argue it? we choose our section based on topics and concentrate on that all semester, and it culminates in an argument in front of a panel of judges. We're also graded on a 10 point cutoff, where if we make more than 10 mistakes in any of our briefs (ie not adding a correct space) then we fail the class, with one chance to make it up over the summer. This is at least what I've heard from 2Ls.


Yep, there is a big oral argument competition with all of the 1Ls. My school offers both specializations and generic. Not sure what you cover in the generic classes, but I chose a specialization. I'm more interested in appellate practice, so I'm looking forward to it. However, I am not sure if I'm looking forward to the oral argument (depending on the logistics of the whole thing). If I'm arguing in front of the whole 300+ 1L class, no thank you!

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ilovesf
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Re: Memo Woes

Postby ilovesf » Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:15 pm

Jessuf wrote:
ilovesf wrote:
Jessuf wrote:Sounds like what I have next semester, but my school calls it LRW 2. We focus on appellate briefs, etc.

do you guys have to argue it? we choose our section based on topics and concentrate on that all semester, and it culminates in an argument in front of a panel of judges. We're also graded on a 10 point cutoff, where if we make more than 10 mistakes in any of our briefs (ie not adding a correct space) then we fail the class, with one chance to make it up over the summer. This is at least what I've heard from 2Ls.


Yep, there is a big oral argument competition with all of the 1Ls. My school offers both specializations and generic. Not sure what you cover in the generic classes, but I chose a specialization. I'm more interested in appellate practice, so I'm looking forward to it. However, I am not sure if I'm looking forward to the oral argument (depending on the logistics of the whole thing). If I'm arguing in front of the whole 300+ 1L class, no thank you!

I'm not looking forward to this either. :(

edit: oops, I just remember my TA telling me that we argue in small groups or individually (I forget which one) in front of the judges.. not in front of tons of people. I can't really imagine how it would be feasible to argue in front of so many people, that seems like a waste of everyone else's time.
Last edited by ilovesf on Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Voltaire
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Re: Memo Woes

Postby Voltaire » Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:16 pm

Jessuf wrote:
ilovesf wrote:
Jessuf wrote:Sounds like what I have next semester, but my school calls it LRW 2. We focus on appellate briefs, etc.

do you guys have to argue it? we choose our section based on topics and concentrate on that all semester, and it culminates in an argument in front of a panel of judges. We're also graded on a 10 point cutoff, where if we make more than 10 mistakes in any of our briefs (ie not adding a correct space) then we fail the class, with one chance to make it up over the summer. This is at least what I've heard from 2Ls.


Yep, there is a big oral argument competition with all of the 1Ls. My school offers both specializations and generic. Not sure what you cover in the generic classes, but I chose a specialization. I'm more interested in appellate practice, so I'm looking forward to it. However, I am not sure if I'm looking forward to the oral argument (depending on the logistics of the whole thing). If I'm arguing in front of the whole 300+ 1L class, no thank you!

I think I'd rather argue in front of 300 1Ls than have to watch the other 300 argue. That sounds brutal.

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jessuf
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Re: Memo Woes

Postby jessuf » Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:13 am

Voltaire wrote:
Jessuf wrote:
ilovesf wrote:
Jessuf wrote:Sounds like what I have next semester, but my school calls it LRW 2. We focus on appellate briefs, etc.

do you guys have to argue it? we choose our section based on topics and concentrate on that all semester, and it culminates in an argument in front of a panel of judges. We're also graded on a 10 point cutoff, where if we make more than 10 mistakes in any of our briefs (ie not adding a correct space) then we fail the class, with one chance to make it up over the summer. This is at least what I've heard from 2Ls.


Yep, there is a big oral argument competition with all of the 1Ls. My school offers both specializations and generic. Not sure what you cover in the generic classes, but I chose a specialization. I'm more interested in appellate practice, so I'm looking forward to it. However, I am not sure if I'm looking forward to the oral argument (depending on the logistics of the whole thing). If I'm arguing in front of the whole 300+ 1L class, no thank you!

I think I'd rather argue in front of 300 1Ls than have to watch the other 300 argue. That sounds brutal.


Oh hah, I definitely phrased it wrong. I meant more of it being voluntary attendance, not mandatory. So obviously all 300 wouldn't show up. I'd say probably only the people arguing before or after me would be there, plus gunners. So about 50? If I'm just arguing in front of a small panel, though, that would be awesome.

mimi82
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Re: Memo Woes

Postby mimi82 » Sat Nov 12, 2011 4:59 am

zomginternets wrote:I found that in LRW, your grade is directly proportional to your effort. Severe procrastination = lowest grade. Early start, lots and lots of draft editing, spending hours reading the law and finding a really good case to use = highest grade. I can't accurately recall the number of hours that I spent on my memo and brief (probably >80-100 hours for the brief), but it did win 2nd best brief in the entire class.

Unfortunately, LRW rewards the nerds who are really into memo writing and the topic given (more so than the substantive class anyway). I suspect that the root cause of your bad grade may be your lack of enthusiasm.

Of course, remember that the strategy that gets you the highest grade in LRW is totally useless in practice since you don't get months to write one memo/brief, so maybe you got the winning long-run strategy.


Okay I have to agree/disagree with that. I'm doing well in this class. But I admit to being a nerd for researching. Stop thinking so much into this stuff. Go to lexisnexis or westlaw for a few hours. Find one relevant case then SAVE in the folder. Then use then just start clicking key numbers, citing references, secondary sources, ect. But the second you see something SAVE it to the folder then use that note option to make sure when you come back to it you know why you saved it. Then what I did was do that chart outline with Elements on side and then relevant facts that prove that case on the other side. The first memo I apparently screwed up by 'thinking' too much. Meaning that I kept going over it but the second time I was rushing very last second so all I had time to do was copy and paste the chart info and then go. I just knew I screwed myself. I didn't feel my memo was flowing as far as easy to read because of what I did. Well apparently that's what he wanted because I got an A. I'm still shocked!!!! So I'm spreading the word....but confirm this with your professor. They all have there own style you must conform to...

Sandro
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Re: Memo Woes

Postby Sandro » Sat Nov 12, 2011 10:18 am

HOW DO YOU SAVE IN WESTLAW?!?!?

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Re: Memo Woes

Postby 03121202698008 » Sat Nov 12, 2011 10:46 am

Sandro wrote:HOW DO YOU SAVE IN WESTLAW?!?!?


Save to a folder.

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crossarmant
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Re: Memo Woes

Postby crossarmant » Sun Nov 13, 2011 3:02 pm

Dearest Memo,

Please fucking die.

Love,
Me

Sandro
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Re: Memo Woes

Postby Sandro » Sun Nov 13, 2011 3:25 pm

i've spent way too much time on mine, its due tomorrow morning, still have most of it to do. zero motiviation to do it, simply because we are forced to smash our writing to exactly copy the format they give us. Only thing is our professor is terrible and didnt teach us anything. So we have two examples to work from. I'm almost about to start drinking because I find it easier to just spew out bullshit that way.

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Kabuo
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Re: Memo Woes

Postby Kabuo » Sun Nov 13, 2011 8:01 pm

Sandro wrote:i've spent way too much time on mine, its due tomorrow morning, still have most of it to do. zero motiviation to do it, simply because we are forced to smash our writing to exactly copy the format they give us. Only thing is our professor is terrible and didnt teach us anything. So we have two examples to work from. I'm almost about to start drinking because I find it easier to just spew out bullshit that way.


Lol. This is where I end up eventually on every LW assignment. They have blue moons in cans here! I'm not a giant blue moon fan, but I had to get them when I saw them in cans. I think they put the orange in for you.

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alicrimson
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Re: Memo Woes

Postby alicrimson » Sun Nov 13, 2011 8:48 pm

Final memo. Due tomorrow. Gah. I've been finished for a while but am holding off on turning it in to the dropbox.

My LRW teacher also gave out extra credit that will be added onto the final memo. We could get a maximum of 6. I know not everyone did all/one of them. I did the 6. Really hoping this doesn't get thrown out the window because the boost could really help if I end up shitting the bed on this memo...or could really help even if I end up at median, as this memo grade is essentially the whole LRW grade.

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gdane
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Re: Memo Woes

Postby gdane » Sun Nov 13, 2011 11:01 pm

Im having a really tough time with NOT copying my memo instruction's statement of facts into my memo's statement of facts. Damn it! The way the facts are phrased in the instructions are perfect. Im reluctant to even come close to using the same words because my professor might mark me down for this.

"D is a computer technician employed by Downtown Technologies." How the hell am I supposed to paraphrase that?!

adonai
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Re: Memo Woes

Postby adonai » Sun Nov 13, 2011 11:11 pm

gdane wrote:Im having a really tough time with NOT copying my memo instruction's statement of facts into my memo's statement of facts. Damn it! The way the facts are phrased in the instructions are perfect. Im reluctant to even come close to using the same words because my professor might mark me down for this.

"D is a computer technician employed by Downtown Technologies." How the hell am I supposed to paraphrase that?!

Separate it into two short sentences, or use a couple commas :mrgreen:




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