Memo Woes Forum

[03121202698008]

Why is it against the honor code to have another student look over your work?

Because the point is to judge your writing, not another's editing.

[1coolnerd]

So, does that mean that you can't take your writing to a writing center/ or a writing tutor?

How are you supposed to improve if you don't get help from others? When I was in high school, I used to almost always to my work to a family member or a writing center tutor? That helped me tremendously.

I wonder if this policy is overkill.

[03121202698008]

So, does that mean that you can't take your writing to a writing center/ or a writing tutor?

How are you supposed to improve if you don't get help from others? When I was in high school, I used to almost always to my work to a family member or a writing center tutor? That helped me tremendously.

I wonder if this policy is overkill.

Your professor is your writing tutor. As is any assigned student mentor. You can do whatever you want with your work outside of grading...you just cannot turn it in for a grade. Your LRW grade is supposed to be a snap-shot of your current writing ability...not potential. You get edits back to learn from...you just don't get the benefit of learning from them prior to grading.

[ilovesf]

So, does that mean that you can't take your writing to a writing center/ or a writing tutor?

How are you supposed to improve if you don't get help from others? When I was in high school, I used to almost always to my work to a family member or a writing center tutor? That helped me tremendously.

I wonder if this policy is overkill.

Are you serious? Ask to set up a meeting with your legal writing professor to go over his/her suggested changes to your drafts. Go over your draft many times yourself. If you have a TA, try to set up a meeting with your TA for help. Aside from this, you can't get any help from anyone.

[1coolnerd]

So, does that mean that you can't take your writing to a writing center/ or a writing tutor?

How are you supposed to improve if you don't get help from others? When I was in high school, I used to almost always to my work to a family member or a writing center tutor? That helped me tremendously.

I wonder if this policy is overkill.

Are you serious? Ask to set up a meeting with your legal writing professor to go over his/her suggested changes to your drafts. Go over your draft many times yourself. If you have a TA, try to set up a meeting with your TA for help. Aside from this, you can't get any help from anyone.

I'm not in law school yet. I'm an 0L.

I ask because, in UG, many professors wouldn't read full drafts of essays. They would read the introductory paragraph and conclusion and request that we take it to the writing lab.

Are law professors/ TAs even willing to read full drafts? Also, with a class size of around 50 to 100 in 1L classes, do they have the time/ energy to do this?

I'm just trying to understand.

[ilovesf]

I'm not in law school yet. I'm an 0L.

I ask because, in UG, many professors wouldn't read full drafts of essays. They would read the introductory paragraph and conclusion and request that we take it to the writing lab.

Are law professors/ TAs even willing to read full drafts? Also, with a class size of around 50 to 100 in 1L classes, do they have the time/ energy to do this?

I'm just trying to understand.

Oh I didn't realize you aren't in law school yet, my bad. I don't know how every school does this but I imagine it's similar to my school. My section is ~85 people and my writing section is 12 people. We always hand in 1 full draft that both our TA and our professor read. Then we are allowed to send revised sections to them, sometimes more if you're lucky. Then we hand in our final draft. Our TAs and professor HAVE to read our full draft. Because we aren't allowed to go to a writing center like in undergrad, the only way to really improve is through their comments (though the helpfulness of a TA is totally debatable).

[1coolnerd]

I'm not in law school yet. I'm an 0L.

I ask because, in UG, many professors wouldn't read full drafts of essays. They would read the introductory paragraph and conclusion and request that we take it to the writing lab.

Are law professors/ TAs even willing to read full drafts? Also, with a class size of around 50 to 100 in 1L classes, do they have the time/ energy to do this?

I'm just trying to understand.

Oh I didn't realize you aren't in law school yet, my bad. I don't know how every school does this but I imagine it's similar to my school. My section is ~85 people and my writing section is 12 people. We always hand in 1 full draft that both our TA and our professor read. Then we are allowed to send revised sections to them, sometimes more if you're lucky. Then we hand in our final draft. Our TAs and professor HAVE to read our full draft. Because we aren't allowed to go to a writing center like in undergrad, the only way to really improve is through their comments (though the helpfulness of a TA is totally debatable).

That kinda bites. I used the writing lab a lot in UG, and it helped tremendously.

So, do you find professor comments to be helpful? Do you know of any writing books that 0Ls should read to improve?

[ilovesf]

I'm not in law school yet. I'm an 0L.

I ask because, in UG, many professors wouldn't read full drafts of essays. They would read the introductory paragraph and conclusion and request that we take it to the writing lab.

Are law professors/ TAs even willing to read full drafts? Also, with a class size of around 50 to 100 in 1L classes, do they have the time/ energy to do this?

I'm just trying to understand.

Oh I didn't realize you aren't in law school yet, my bad. I don't know how every school does this but I imagine it's similar to my school. My section is ~85 people and my writing section is 12 people. We always hand in 1 full draft that both our TA and our professor read. Then we are allowed to send revised sections to them, sometimes more if you're lucky. Then we hand in our final draft. Our TAs and professor HAVE to read our full draft. Because we aren't allowed to go to a writing center like in undergrad, the only way to really improve is through their comments (though the helpfulness of a TA is totally debatable).

That kinda bites. I used the writing lab a lot in UG, and it helped tremendously.

So, do you find professor comments to be helpful? Do you know of any writing books that 0Ls should read to improve?

I actually like this, because instead of depending on other people's comments, you really have to evaluate the work for yourself. Good writers are rewarded by this, and it forces you to work harder to improve your writing. I also think it levels the playing field a bit, because there isn't one person who has had their paper edited by 10 people or something. I found my professor's comments to be helpful and in general, I really liked legal writing. In legal writing though, you are writing exactly how your professor wants you to write, and you have to change your style to fit your professor's specifications. My professor hates certain expressions, such as thus, therefore, 'the case at bar,' etc. I know some other legal writing sections use these expressions frequently. I don't know any 0L books for writing, and I imagine it could be a waste of time since each professor has a distinct style of writing that you should follow.

[03121202698008]

I'm not in law school yet. I'm an 0L.

I ask because, in UG, many professors wouldn't read full drafts of essays. They would read the introductory paragraph and conclusion and request that we take it to the writing lab.

Are law professors/ TAs even willing to read full drafts? Also, with a class size of around 50 to 100 in 1L classes, do they have the time/ energy to do this?

I'm just trying to understand.

Oh I didn't realize you aren't in law school yet, my bad. I don't know how every school does this but I imagine it's similar to my school. My section is ~85 people and my writing section is 12 people. We always hand in 1 full draft that both our TA and our professor read. Then we are allowed to send revised sections to them, sometimes more if you're lucky. Then we hand in our final draft. Our TAs and professor HAVE to read our full draft. Because we aren't allowed to go to a writing center like in undergrad, the only way to really improve is through their comments (though the helpfulness of a TA is totally debatable).

That kinda bites. I used the writing lab a lot in UG, and it helped tremendously.

So, do you find professor comments to be helpful? Do you know of any writing books that 0Ls should read to improve?

It's precisely because people rely on writing centers that they do it this way. They aren't there to teach you to write. They are there to teach you to write in a legal context. Most of what you'll learn has to do with research, format, and citations. They will give you comments and grade on style but this is not an UG writing course. LRW serves two purposes: it teaches you legal writing and serves as an indicator to employers that you can write well. It doesn't exist to teach you the difference between passive/active voice, etc.

It sounds like you've had lazy professors in the past. They will definitely read the whole draft. Writing is a huge part of being a lawyer. You'll also find that LS professors don't hold your hand. They expect you to put in the research/work.

[lifestooquick]

Final memo due Friday morning at 9:30. UGH! I'm so over this...Bluebooking party tomorrow and then I'm DONE with this shit.

[Extension_Cord]

Final memo due Friday morning at 9:30. UGH! I'm so over this...Bluebooking party tomorrow and then I'm DONE with this shit.

damn, we turned out final memos in 2 weeks ago.

[ph14]

Final memo due Friday morning at 9:30. UGH! I'm so over this...Bluebooking party tomorrow and then I'm DONE with this shit.

damn, we turned out final memos in 2 weeks ago.

Turned ours in about a week ago. Nice to have that off the table.

[Extension_Cord]

Final memo due Friday morning at 9:30. UGH! I'm so over this...Bluebooking party tomorrow and then I'm DONE with this shit.

damn, we turned out final memos in 2 weeks ago.

Turned ours in about a week ago. Nice to have that off the table.

Easy street from here on out, eh?

Psych!

[jess]

.

[TheFutureLawyer]

Man, I'm realizing how bad my memo actually is (though I still really want to see what the median memo looks like). Out of curiosity, how many of you actually made sure to use all your signals properly, along with proper footnotes? For some reason, I never did thought about using footnotes before, and then recently the Prof was like, "yeah, you should use footnotes." Was looking at the footnotes part of BB, and then looked at the signals part. fml.

When this shit is done in 20 hrs, I'm gonna have a nice drink or two.

[03121202698008]

Man, I'm realizing how bad my memo actually is (though I still really want to see what the median memo looks like). Out of curiosity, how many of you actually made sure to use all your signals properly, along with proper footnotes? For some reason, I never did thought about using footnotes before, and then recently the Prof was like, "yeah, you should use footnotes." Was looking at the footnotes part of BB, and then looked at the signals part. fml.

When this shit is done in 20 hrs, I'm gonna have a nice drink or two.

Footnotes in a brief? Or citations? It is rare to see footnotes used in a brief. Several prominent judges have even spoken out against the practice. Their inclusion in the BB is intended for scholarly works which is clear from the blue page examples.

[ilovesf]

Man, I'm realizing how bad my memo actually is (though I still really want to see what the median memo looks like). Out of curiosity, how many of you actually made sure to use all your signals properly, along with proper footnotes? For some reason, I never did thought about using footnotes before, and then recently the Prof was like, "yeah, you should use footnotes." Was looking at the footnotes part of BB, and then looked at the signals part. fml.

When this shit is done in 20 hrs, I'm gonna have a nice drink or two.

Footnotes in a brief? Or citations? It is rare to see footnotes used in a brief. Several prominent judges have even spoken out against the practice. Their inclusion in the BB is intended for scholarly works which is clear from the blue page examples.

I've never used or heard anyone speak about using footnotes in a lwr brief.

[TheFutureLawyer]

When this shit is done in 20 hrs, I'm gonna have a nice drink or two.

--ImageRemoved--

[lifestooquick]

Fuck this memo. I can't wait to turn it in and not look at it again.

[MrPapagiorgio]

Most work for a 2 credit class since bio lab. But fucking done.

[keg411]

Man, I'm realizing how bad my memo actually is (though I still really want to see what the median memo looks like). Out of curiosity, how many of you actually made sure to use all your signals properly, along with proper footnotes? For some reason, I never did thought about using footnotes before, and then recently the Prof was like, "yeah, you should use footnotes." Was looking at the footnotes part of BB, and then looked at the signals part. fml.

When this shit is done in 20 hrs, I'm gonna have a nice drink or two.

Footnotes in a brief? Or citations? It is rare to see footnotes used in a brief. Several prominent judges have even spoken out against the practice. Their inclusion in the BB is intended for scholarly works which is clear from the blue page examples.

I've never used or heard anyone speak about using footnotes in a lwr brief.

I used two last year in my LRW brief, but only because it made more sense to put them there (both had to do with procedural postures of cases I cited that needed to be included, but didn't work in the main text). My prof pretty much said, if you need to use a couple it was okay, but she didn't want to see a lot of them.

Also, there were a whole bunch in the some of the state appellate briefs I read all of last summer. So I don't think it's always uncalled for, but only use them if it only makes sense to put the information in a FN rather than the body of the brief.

[queenlizzie13]

Turned in memo yesterday. Felt good to be finally done with it. As for footnotes I don't think you're supposed to have them. Next semester with the briefs. Footnotes are generally more for Law Review articles though.

[kalvano]

I would have been tarred and feathered and then drawn and quartered if I had used footnotes in my brief.

[03121202698008]

I would have been tarred and feathered and then drawn and quartered if I had used footnotes in my brief.

This, people do it in practice but it's not preferred. They generally do it because they are lazy or feel the need to include information that's not relevant. About half of those I've seen are merely digs at the other side.

[lifestooquick]

Memo turned in this morning. Nap time now.