1L Summer Employment

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69Coronet
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby 69Coronet » Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:20 am

Richie Tenenbaum wrote:
rocon7383 wrote:
Richie Tenenbaum wrote:Well, this post is going to be anticlimactic. Cade had PM's in response to my earlier post in this thread about me knowing a decent chunk of 1L's who got biglaw summer clerkships. So here's my response:

I didn't do a biglaw summer clerkship. (So take my advice about landing one with a grain of salt.) I wanted to do a judicial internship for my 1L summer and I waited to apply to those spots right after finals. I had the grades to try and apply for 1L biglaw SA spots, but I didn't even try because 1) I wanted to do a judicial internship more, 2) I didn't care too much about the money (though I don't think I fully took into consideration how much money it would actually be), and 3) I thought it would be a waste of time because I had heard they were so incredibly rare (after I started seeing a decent amount of classmates get one, I started to realize that while they might be somewhat rare, they are definitely attainable).

Splitting my summer between a judicial internship and as biglaw 1L summer SA actually seemed like a dream scenario, but the timing for that was off since 1) I didn't apply early for biglaw and 2) I had two interviews not too long after sending my judicial internship apps out and I said yes to both and split my summer between two judicial internships.

Do I regret not applying to firms for 1L summer? No, because I am very happy with how 2L OCI worked out for me. My answer might be different though if things went differently. And it was definitely more stressful to not have a safety net. I know some people who only applied to 4-5 firms because they were really happy with their 1L summer firm and had an offer to come back before 2L OCI screening interviews actually started happening.

With all that said, my advice to those wanting to get 1L summer biglaw job:
-Send your apps out on December 1st. I know some people who did this with alright grades and ended up with a biglaw summer SA. People were already scheduling screening interviews before finals were over.


so these grades are undergrad grades then?


Sorry, I should have been more clear. It is my understanding firms didn't make offers until your 1st semester grades are all in, but you can schedule interviews with the firm before this. (I.E. You are from city X and you go to school in city Y. It is pretty common to schedule an interview in city x with firms from city x over your christmas break--so before most, if any, of your grades have been released.) It probably is too late to apply to most biglaw 1L spots if you wait until you get all your grades back (so like Jan/Feb), but maybe someone can correct me on this.

[Why is the guy who did judicial internships (AKA, me) giving 1L biglaw hiring advice? Doublechecks--you carry the torch from here on out.]


So I'm supposed to mass mail biglaw firms my resume and cover letter, on December 1st, without grades, and then see if I get grades that are good enough to nab an elusive offer from them?

I'm still pondering what the hell I want to do.
I've got a list of local COA judges and I'm going to start calling this afternoon to see if they're hiring for the summer of 2012, but short of that, I'm still confused as to what I should do on the firm front.
I'd really rather work at a firm [even midlaw] over the summer, just to see if I like it or if it makes me want to kill myself.

So many things to worry about... so little time.

03121202698008
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby 03121202698008 » Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:28 am

69Coronet wrote:
So I'm supposed to mass mail biglaw firms my resume and cover letter, on December 1st, without grades, and then see if I get grades that are good enough to nab an elusive offer from them?

I'm still pondering what the hell I want to do.
I've got a list of local COA judges and I'm going to start calling this afternoon to see if they're hiring for the summer of 2012, but short of that, I'm still confused as to what I should do on the firm front.
I'd really rather work at a firm [even midlaw] over the summer, just to see if I like it or if it makes me want to kill myself.

So many things to worry about... so little time.


They won't talk to you yet. I was hired by a judge without grades but only after Dec 1st... That's the magic day. Bound or not by the NALP guidelines, they follow this one.

Edit: Even OCS isn't supposed to be talking to you yet. That magic day is Nov 1.

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beachbum
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby beachbum » Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:41 am

Any cover letter advice for applying to federal judges? (Or any advice in general?) I'd like to work at a firm in my home market, but option 1b is securing an internship with one of the district/COA judges there.

Also, does anyone have any experience in bankruptcy court? How does it compare to other internships, and how is it viewed by employers?

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Grizz
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby Grizz » Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:45 am

beachbum wrote:Also, does anyone have any experience in bankruptcy court? How does it compare to other internships, and how is it viewed by employers?

If you have an articulable interest in BK, it's good. If it's just the "best" thing you could get, you're gonna look silly.

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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby 03121202698008 » Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:46 am

beachbum wrote:Any cover letter advice for applying to federal judges? (Or any advice in general?) I'd like to work at a firm in my home market, but option 1b is securing an internship with one of the district/COA judges there.

Also, does anyone have any experience in bankruptcy court? How does it compare to other internships, and how is it viewed by employers?


Your experience in any court will depend heavily on the judge. My judge was very hands-on, the clerks were hands-on, they understood why we were there and expected us to spend half of our time observing court (theirs or others), they ensured we got a mixture of work and not doing jurisdiction checks all summer, etc. My judge also did not use bench memos so we got to write real orders and opinions. Other judges were the exact opposite. You simply cannot generalize.

My advice for all cover letters...sell yourself. Don't simply restate your resume. Elaborate how your resume will allow you to contribute and help them.

69Coronet
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby 69Coronet » Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:31 pm

blowhard wrote:
69Coronet wrote:
So I'm supposed to mass mail biglaw firms my resume and cover letter, on December 1st, without grades, and then see if I get grades that are good enough to nab an elusive offer from them?

I'm still pondering what the hell I want to do.
I've got a list of local COA judges and I'm going to start calling this afternoon to see if they're hiring for the summer of 2012, but short of that, I'm still confused as to what I should do on the firm front.
I'd really rather work at a firm [even midlaw] over the summer, just to see if I like it or if it makes me want to kill myself.

So many things to worry about... so little time.


They won't talk to you yet. I was hired by a judge without grades but only after Dec 1st... That's the magic day. Bound or not by the NALP guidelines, they follow this one.

Edit: Even OCS isn't supposed to be talking to you yet. That magic day is Nov 1.


Oh yeah, I know they won't hire me yet.

However, (yes this is anecdotal) a friend called judges (Federal District Court judges) in late October two years ago and found out which judges were hiring interns for that year by asking their assistants, and then applied to all of those judges who were hiring, sending his applications out on November 31st in snail mail. He received offers from nearly every judge to whom he applied. (And he went to a TTTT that has a relatively crappy reputation where it, and the judges, are located). He, like you, didn't have grades yet.

I was planning on adopting that same strategy.

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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby 03121202698008 » Fri Oct 28, 2011 1:29 pm

69Coronet wrote:
blowhard wrote:
69Coronet wrote:
So I'm supposed to mass mail biglaw firms my resume and cover letter, on December 1st, without grades, and then see if I get grades that are good enough to nab an elusive offer from them?

I'm still pondering what the hell I want to do.
I've got a list of local COA judges and I'm going to start calling this afternoon to see if they're hiring for the summer of 2012, but short of that, I'm still confused as to what I should do on the firm front.
I'd really rather work at a firm [even midlaw] over the summer, just to see if I like it or if it makes me want to kill myself.

So many things to worry about... so little time.


They won't talk to you yet. I was hired by a judge without grades but only after Dec 1st... That's the magic day. Bound or not by the NALP guidelines, they follow this one.

Edit: Even OCS isn't supposed to be talking to you yet. That magic day is Nov 1.


Oh yeah, I know they won't hire me yet.

However, (yes this is anecdotal) a friend called judges (Federal District Court judges) in late October two years ago and found out which judges were hiring interns for that year by asking their assistants, and then applied to all of those judges who were hiring, sending his applications out on November 31st in snail mail. He received offers from nearly every judge to whom he applied. (And he went to a TTTT that has a relatively crappy reputation where it, and the judges, are located). He, like you, didn't have grades yet.

I was planning on adopting that same strategy.


I sent them to all judges in the area. Your school probably has a mail merge list. Sorting our those not hiring wouldn't be worth the cost per envelope.

69Coronet
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby 69Coronet » Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:11 pm

blowhard wrote:I sent them to all judges in the area. Your school probably has a mail merge list. Sorting our those not hiring wouldn't be worth the cost per envelope.


Fair enough, thanks for the info!

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Hippononymous
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby Hippononymous » Fri Oct 28, 2011 6:18 pm

69Coronet wrote:
blowhard wrote:
69Coronet wrote:
So I'm supposed to mass mail biglaw firms my resume and cover letter, on December 1st, without grades, and then see if I get grades that are good enough to nab an elusive offer from them?

I'm still pondering what the hell I want to do.
I've got a list of local COA judges and I'm going to start calling this afternoon to see if they're hiring for the summer of 2012, but short of that, I'm still confused as to what I should do on the firm front.
I'd really rather work at a firm [even midlaw] over the summer, just to see if I like it or if it makes me want to kill myself.

So many things to worry about... so little time.


They won't talk to you yet. I was hired by a judge without grades but only after Dec 1st... That's the magic day. Bound or not by the NALP guidelines, they follow this one.

Edit: Even OCS isn't supposed to be talking to you yet. That magic day is Nov 1.


Oh yeah, I know they won't hire me yet.

However, (yes this is anecdotal) a friend called judges (Federal District Court judges) in late October two years ago and found out which judges were hiring interns for that year by asking their assistants, and then applied to all of those judges who were hiring, sending his applications out on November 31st in snail mail. He received offers from nearly every judge to whom he applied. (And he went to a TTTT that has a relatively crappy reputation where it, and the judges, are located). He, like you, didn't have grades yet.

I was planning on adopting that same strategy.

I doubt that very much. :D But overall this seems like a good approach.

What do people think is a better choice: judicial intern/externship or a clinical program? The best-regarded clinicals here are criminal law clinics, and I'm not interested in crim law or litigation. But they pay a stipend, whereas I have to pay for credits through the externship. Thoughts?

lawyerwannabe
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby lawyerwannabe » Fri Oct 28, 2011 6:27 pm

What is hiring based upon for your 1L summer job? A lot of people apply before they get even a full semester's worth of grades (e.g. we will not have all of our grades until late January / early February).

Is hiring based on undergraduate school / major / GPA? Is hiring based on your law school?

I have no clue what to do or what is realistic. I know that I want to do corporate in NYC during my 2L summer. Should I try to get an in-house gig or would a RA position concerning something corporate-based be sufficient for my 1L summer?

sparty99
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby sparty99 » Fri Oct 28, 2011 6:59 pm

How do I find judicial externships, research assistants positions?

03121202698008
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby 03121202698008 » Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:36 am

Guys. Calm down. Your OCS will explain it all after the 1st. Each school posts RA positions differently. I'd be surprised if each didn't have a searchable database to mass mail judges.

69Coronet
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby 69Coronet » Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:43 pm

Hippononymous wrote:
69Coronet wrote:Oh yeah, I know they won't hire me yet.

However, (yes this is anecdotal) a friend called judges (Federal District Court judges) in late October two years ago and found out which judges were hiring interns for that year by asking their assistants, and then applied to all of those judges who were hiring, sending his applications out on November 31st in snail mail. He received offers from nearly every judge to whom he applied. (And he went to a TTTT that has a relatively crappy reputation where it, and the judges, are located). He, like you, didn't have grades yet.

I was planning on adopting that same strategy.

I doubt that very much. :D But overall this seems like a good approach.


Ha! You'd think I would know how many days are in November... :lol:

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Kendi
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby Kendi » Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:39 pm

According to the data from NALP, there may only be 15 IL positions available this summer (4X that many for 2L). The good news is, 1L weekly pay is +$2,500.00. I assume my applications need to be sent via snail mail, or is PDF ever acceptable?

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DoubleChecks
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby DoubleChecks » Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:48 pm

Kendi wrote:According to the data from NALP, there may only be 15 IL positions available this summer (4X that many for 2L). The good news is, 1L weekly pay is +$2,500.00. I assume my applications need to be sent via snail mail, or is PDF ever acceptable?


?? Are you talking about a specific firm?

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Kendi
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby Kendi » Sat Oct 29, 2011 6:22 pm

DoubleChecks wrote:
Kendi wrote:According to the data from NALP, there may only be 15 IL positions available this summer (4X that many for 2L). The good news is, 1L weekly pay is +$2,500.00. I assume my applications need to be sent via snail mail, or is PDF ever acceptable?


?? Are you talking about a specific firm?

Just the ones in Miami, Fla.

I have not been to OCS yet. With the Clerkships, are they usually salaried?

keg411
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby keg411 » Sat Oct 29, 2011 7:30 pm

blowhard wrote:State court is not only much less prestigious...it is probably not as great of an experience. Appellate and SC wouldn't be as bad but state trial courts are a zoo and don't tend to involve issues requiring the same level of research and writing as federal court. As for federal, I did a district court and loved the experience. I have friends who did CoA and loved it but I don't think i would have enjoyed it as much.


I know a ton of people that did State Trial Court, and this is where I mostly targeted my job search. Since I didn't have grades and wanted to make sure I got something, I sent a ton of these apps out after finals and got calls for interviews even before grades. A lot of people at my old law school did State Trial, and they all seemed to get plenty of substantive experience, even if it's not the same level of prestige as District Court. After I got my grades, I mailed the SC Justices in my state and ended up doing that over the summer.

Also, the thing I learned during OCI is that people in New York do not know anything about the NJ Court system and the "Supreme Court" distinction confused them :lol: :| .

you_were_driving
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby you_were_driving » Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:38 pm

some advice please:

I've got an internship lined up with a federal magistrate judge in the region i hope to practice after graduation for 1L summer. The judge has told me that I can intern for as long/short as I want to and is flexible with start and end dates. Because I anticipate landing a 1L SA (or any paying gig for that matter) to be pretty unlikely, all signs are pointing to spending the summer with the judge.

But, I just got offered a 1-month internship with a law firm in Asia. I'm pretty interested in taking it, but its unpaid, and will likely cost a couple thousand after airfare, living, travel expenses etc. I'd say its highly unlikely that I'll be working in Asia post grad, but I think i would enjoy the experience and it would probably be a good conversation starter on the resume if anything.

I can likely do both, neither is paid, and id say its unlikely that I'll be finding any paying legal work this summer. I'm not rolling in cash by any means but I could afford the $2K if I can justify it.

Can anyone speak to the value of a 1-month legal internship in a foreign country that I likely wont practice in but want to experience? Should I stick with the magistrate all summer instead? Should I take my chances on something else? I would have to start making arrangements fairly soon if I choose to go to Asia (meaning before 12/1). Any advice is appreciated.

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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby 03121202698008 » Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:24 pm

you_were_driving wrote:some advice please:

I've got an internship lined up with a federal magistrate judge in the region i hope to practice after graduation for 1L summer. The judge has told me that I can intern for as long/short as I want to and is flexible with start and end dates. Because I anticipate landing a 1L SA (or any paying gig for that matter) to be pretty unlikely, all signs are pointing to spending the summer with the judge.

But, I just got offered a 1-month internship with a law firm in Asia. I'm pretty interested in taking it, but its unpaid, and will likely cost a couple thousand after airfare, living, travel expenses etc. I'd say its highly unlikely that I'll be working in Asia post grad, but I think i would enjoy the experience and it would probably be a good conversation starter on the resume if anything.

I can likely do both, neither is paid, and id say its unlikely that I'll be finding any paying legal work this summer. I'm not rolling in cash by any means but I could afford the $2K if I can justify it.

Can anyone speak to the value of a 1-month legal internship in a foreign country that I likely wont practice in but want to experience? Should I stick with the magistrate all summer instead? Should I take my chances on something else? I would have to start making arrangements fairly soon if I choose to go to Asia (meaning before 12/1). Any advice is appreciated.


Neither will be a huge boost so do whichever you prefer. The location of the judge doesn't matter at all. Maybe try for a district judge instead? The experience will be vastly different from magistrate to district level.

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romothesavior
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby romothesavior » Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:00 pm

blowhard wrote:Neither will be a huge boost so do whichever you prefer. The location of the judge doesn't matter at all.

Agree with the first sentence, completely disagree with the second. OP, it doesn't sound like the Asia experience is going anywhere, so it may be cool and totally worth it to do it on a personal level, it likely won't do a lot for you at OCI. Not saying you shouldn't do it, because it probably won't hurt you and it may be a great experience, just don't pick one over the other because of a professional edge of some sort.

I disagree with blowhard that the location of the internship doesn't matter at all. Sure, a district judge may be a better gig, but unless you personally grew up in this place, there is no better way to show a commitment to a city than working there as a 1L. Being able to network over the summer is obviously key, and being able to say, "I took this 1L job because I am committed to this city" is also very helpful for 2L OCI.

03121202698008
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby 03121202698008 » Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:09 pm

romothesavior wrote:
blowhard wrote:Neither will be a huge boost so do whichever you prefer. The location of the judge doesn't matter at all.

Agree with the first sentence, completely disagree with the second. OP, it doesn't sound like the Asia experience is going anywhere, so it may be cool and totally worth it to do it on a personal level, it likely won't do a lot for you at OCI. Not saying you shouldn't do it, because it probably won't hurt you and it may be a great experience, just don't pick one over the other because of a professional edge of some sort.

I disagree with blowhard that the location of the internship doesn't matter at all. Sure, a district judge may be a better gig, but unless you personally grew up in this place, there is no better way to show a commitment to a city than working there as a 1L. Being able to network over the summer is obviously key, and being able to say, "I took this 1L job because I am committed to this city" is also very helpful for 2L OCI.


I see your point. I still think I'd go with the experience over location. Although maybe not if I had absolutely no ties to the city and it was one known for requiring that.

you_were_driving
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby you_were_driving » Tue Nov 01, 2011 8:22 am

those are good points, thanks for the advice. One question I meant to include in the first post is, IF i decided that I wanted to do both (which is doable) would a month and a half with the judge be less beneficial than if I spent the entire summer? I don't feel like that extra month would really make a difference, especially since I will actually be doing something legal(ish) for that month, and by beneficial i mean appearing as if I wasn't sitting at the pool all summer. I realize that's a difficult question to answer without more specifics, but if there was a clear answer I wouldn't be asking.

I feel like very little is expected from 1Ls as far as employment goes, but I don't want to appear like a complete tourist who was just hanging out in various offices all summer. Any opinions on if it matters? or is it going to be so insignificant not even to worry about it

tl;dr - chose one, or do both.

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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby 03121202698008 » Tue Nov 01, 2011 8:25 am

you_were_driving wrote:those are good points, thanks for the advice. One question I meant to include in the first post is, IF i decided that I wanted to do both (which is doable) would a month and a half with the judge be less beneficial than if I spent the entire summer? I don't feel like that extra month would really make a difference, especially since I will actually be doing something legal(ish) for that month, and by beneficial i mean appearing as if I wasn't sitting at the pool all summer. I realize that's a difficult question to answer without more specifics, but if there was a clear answer I wouldn't be asking.

I feel like very little is expected from 1Ls as far as employment goes, but I don't want to appear like a complete tourist who was just hanging out in various offices all summer. Any opinions on if it matters? or is it going to be so insignificant not even to worry about it

tl;dr - chose one, or do both.


I did 10 weeks with a judge and I felt the last 4-5 were the most beneficial. It's when I really hit my stride and understood what I was doing...and so I was entrusted with bigger assignments.

you_were_driving
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby you_were_driving » Tue Nov 01, 2011 8:36 am

blowhard wrote:
you_were_driving wrote:those are good points, thanks for the advice. One question I meant to include in the first post is, IF i decided that I wanted to do both (which is doable) would a month and a half with the judge be less beneficial than if I spent the entire summer? I don't feel like that extra month would really make a difference, especially since I will actually be doing something legal(ish) for that month, and by beneficial i mean appearing as if I wasn't sitting at the pool all summer. I realize that's a difficult question to answer without more specifics, but if there was a clear answer I wouldn't be asking.

I feel like very little is expected from 1Ls as far as employment goes, but I don't want to appear like a complete tourist who was just hanging out in various offices all summer. Any opinions on if it matters? or is it going to be so insignificant not even to worry about it

tl;dr - chose one, or do both.


I did 10 weeks with a judge and I felt the last 4-5 were the most beneficial. It's when I really hit my stride and understood what I was doing...and so I was entrusted with bigger assignments.


Ahhh, as much as I don't want this to be right, you probably are. Its basically a question of doing 1 thing well, or doing one thing OK and going on a month vacation.

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jessuf
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby jessuf » Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:44 pm

Reposting in this thread: Some of the summer internships I found allow 1L applicants, but the deadline to apply is in December and they require transcripts. How does that work exactly? Do I just send them something that says I am enrolled in xyz courses, then update them in January with final grades if I haven't heard from them yet?




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