1L Summer Employment

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ilovesf
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby ilovesf » Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:23 pm

150?!?! :shock: That seems CRAZY high. My advisor told me to pick out my 5 favorite judges, send out letters, and wait 2 weeks to see if I hear back. If I don't, send out 5 more, etc. I guess I am only applying to SF judges, but still... wow.

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Helmholtz
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby Helmholtz » Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:31 pm

ilovesf wrote:150?!?! :shock: That seems CRAZY high. My advisor told me to pick out my 5 favorite judges, send out letters, and wait 2 weeks to see if I hear back. If I don't, send out 5 more, etc. I guess I am only applying to SF judges, but still... wow.


How do you figure out who your five favorite judges are? That seems like a weird think for a 1L to do / know. I forget how many I sent out, but I believe it was in the 150 range (and if I had to do it again, I certainly would not have sent any fewer).

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ilovesf
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby ilovesf » Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:42 pm

Helmholtz wrote:
ilovesf wrote:150?!?! :shock: That seems CRAZY high. My advisor told me to pick out my 5 favorite judges, send out letters, and wait 2 weeks to see if I hear back. If I don't, send out 5 more, etc. I guess I am only applying to SF judges, but still... wow.


How do you figure out who your five favorite judges are? That seems like a weird think for a 1L to do / know. I forget how many I sent out, but I believe it was in the 150 range (and if I had to do it again, I certainly would not have sent any fewer).


They told me to research on the CoA website because I'd prefer CoA. Hastings has a whole office dedicated to judicial externships (I don't know if all schools have this?) and there is a large book with student reviews about their times with judges. I just picked them based on student assessments and what they list on their online profile (like one of them went to my undergrad and we have a similar generic interest). I'm not sure why they advised me to send out so few applications, but they seemed pretty confident that I didn't need to send out a lot more, at least at first. Anyway, like I said, I also want to stay in SF, so there aren't even 150 judges for me to apply to. I'm also planning on applying to some public interest internships, etc.

kaiser
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby kaiser » Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:53 pm

I applied to about 130-140 judges and I could have applied to more. I was interested in interning in the NJ/NY area, but was also comfortable with Philly and Boston. So I applied to every COA judge for the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd circuit, as well as every federal district court judge in NJ, EDNY, SDNY, and a few in EDPA. In addition, I applied to a good number of NJ state judges.

Picking a few "favorite" judges sounds like a completely silly idea. "Preference" for CoA is meaningless since those are the hardest and most selective federal judicial internships to get. And without any grades, and not coming from a top school, it is highly unlikely to just happen by chance. Thats why, if a federal judicial internship is your goal, you should be bombing your resume around to as many as possible, not cherry-picking just a few. I got about 12 interviews out of 130-140 applications, and only heard back from about 50 total (which means about 80-90 didn't even get back to me with a rejection). Its all about statistically increasing your chances, not being choosy along dimensions that make no sense (i.e. which judge is your "favorite" or which one you have a "preference" for).

shock259
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby shock259 » Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:55 pm

Better safe than sorry is my mentality. At this point in my law career, I don't have much to distinguish myself from the pack. I worked as a paralegal in the litigation department for a year, but I doubt that is going to do much. And I won't have grades yet. I go to a T1 in a secondary market, but there is also a T2 here that churns out 300 grads a year. And I have 170 classmates. That's a lot of people looking for jobs, and this doesn't even include people that are going to non-resident schools that will definitely apply for the same places.

50 cents for a stamp is a small price to pay. I don't have to cater letters to judges. I don't really have anything to cater with anyway.

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Helmholtz
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby Helmholtz » Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:58 pm

ilovesf wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:
ilovesf wrote:150?!?! :shock: That seems CRAZY high. My advisor told me to pick out my 5 favorite judges, send out letters, and wait 2 weeks to see if I hear back. If I don't, send out 5 more, etc. I guess I am only applying to SF judges, but still... wow.


How do you figure out who your five favorite judges are? That seems like a weird think for a 1L to do / know. I forget how many I sent out, but I believe it was in the 150 range (and if I had to do it again, I certainly would not have sent any fewer).


They told me to research on the CoA website because I'd prefer CoA. Hastings has a whole office dedicated to judicial externships (I don't know if all schools have this?) and there is a large book with student reviews about their times with judges. I just picked them based on student assessments and what they list on their online profile (like one of them went to my undergrad and we have a similar generic interest). I'm not sure why they advised me to send out so few applications, but they seemed pretty confident that I didn't need to send out a lot more, at least at first. Anyway, like I said, I also want to stay in SF, so there aren't even 150 judges for me to apply to. I'm also planning on applying to some public interest internships, etc.


I would apply to every judge you would consider working for. (1) Some judges take forever to get back to you--often longer than a couple weeks, and (2) judicial internships are pretty competitive (I imagine that it's pretty bad in CA, where they have practically dozens of law schools and probably more-than-a-few people going to LS out of state who want to return home for the summer.) It's not the first time an OCS has given out awful advice.

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ilovesf
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby ilovesf » Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:00 pm

Well, I'm just going off of the information the judicial externship office gave me, but I'll be sure to bump up my number then after this advice.. thanks guys.

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Helmholtz
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby Helmholtz » Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:03 pm

ilovesf wrote:Well, I'm just going off of the information the judicial externship office gave me, but I'll be sure to bump up my number then after this advice.. thanks guys.


I'm sure they don't have bad intentions, but get used to having to ignore at least some of the information given to you by school career offices. Remember, they want as many students as possible to just get something. They don't necessarily want you to get the best thing for you.

shock259
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby shock259 » Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:56 pm

I just picture my OCS as well-intentioned, but generally naive towards the realities of finding a job in today's world. I haven't seen anything from my OCS to convince me otherwise. I plan on using them for what they are good at (IE teaching me to network, resume review, mock interviews, etc), but I'm not going to rely much on them for substantive job searching things. I think people that are in the trenches have better info (TLS).

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Helmholtz
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby Helmholtz » Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:06 pm

shock259 wrote:(IE teaching me to network, resume review, mock interviews, etc)


fwiw, even stuff like that can be spotty

+80% of the time during my mock interview was spent on the question, "What is your greatest weakness?" (which is generally never asked during an actual OCI or callback interview)

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Grizz
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby Grizz » Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:16 pm

Helmholtz wrote:
shock259 wrote:(IE teaching me to network, resume review, mock interviews, etc)


fwiw, even stuff like that can be spotty

+80% of the time during my mock interview was spent on the question, "What is your greatest weakness?" (which is generally never asked during an actual OCI or callback interview)

I got it on several (3-4 CBs probably). One even asked for 2 weaknesses. Was forced to pull a DF and blurt out "my writing" for the second one.

mrloblaw
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby mrloblaw » Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:18 pm

Helmholtz wrote:
shock259 wrote:(IE teaching me to network, resume review, mock interviews, etc)


fwiw, even stuff like that can be spotty

+80% of the time during my mock interview was spent on the question, "What is your greatest weakness?" (which is generally never asked during an actual OCI or callback interview)


+1. I got the mock interview questions in a real interview exactly once, and that wasn't with a law firm.

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Helmholtz
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby Helmholtz » Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:25 pm

Grizz wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:
shock259 wrote:(IE teaching me to network, resume review, mock interviews, etc)


fwiw, even stuff like that can be spotty

+80% of the time during my mock interview was spent on the question, "What is your greatest weakness?" (which is generally never asked during an actual OCI or callback interview)

I got it on several (3-4 CBs probably). One even asked for 2 weaknesses. Was forced to pull a DF and blurt out "my writing" for the second one.


Surprised it came up so much. I figured it was a useless question and I was wasting my time taking it seriously (in my case, that turned out to be right) so my answer to her was "my inability to pay attention to detail no matter how hard I work at it." We spent a half hour on why that was probably not a good answer, and coming up with something better.

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TheFutureLawyer
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby TheFutureLawyer » Sat Nov 12, 2011 5:55 pm

fml, not gonna get a chance to seriously think about 1L summer until Friday night, at which point I'll be too burned out to give a fuck about anything at all. I haven't even logged on to Symplicity or w/e it's called.

edit; sorry if this has been mentioned already, but assuming you're sending out apps on Dec 1, when do interviews begin? In the spring? Do they do interviews? I am so fucking lost.

ran12
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby ran12 » Sat Nov 12, 2011 6:32 pm

TheFutureLawyer wrote:fml, not gonna get a chance to seriously think about 1L summer until Friday night, at which point I'll be too burned out to give a fuck about anything at all. I haven't even logged on to Symplicity or w/e it's called.

edit; sorry if this has been mentioned already, but assuming you're sending out apps on Dec 1, when do interviews begin? In the spring? Do they do interviews? I am so fucking lost.


Firms will basically sort apps into groups based on interest and then wait until grades are out to do interviews or do the interview first and contingent on grades give an offer.

minuit
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby minuit » Sat Nov 12, 2011 7:17 pm

Jessuf wrote:Also, the judicial yellowbook has everyone's address, phone number, fax number, e-mail address, clerk's phone numbers and e-mails, etc. etc. I used it to get some addresses today, and it told me what local organizations the judges were involved in, where they worked previously, etc. Pretty helpful in tailoring my cover letter AND for potentially stalking them down.


Did you pay for it? How did you access it?

69Coronet
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby 69Coronet » Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:47 am

I'm still extremely confused as to where the hell I'm going to apply and when.
I don't go to HYS, so I realize that a big firm 1L SA is a super duper long shot, but for the hell of it I'm going to send out resumes to those firms that take 1Ls in my target market on 12/1 anyway.
Then I can't decide if I want to mass mail judges on 12/1 as well or if I'm going to wait to do that until 12/15.
If I were to get an offer from a firm, I wouldn't want to have to turn it down to take an offer from a judge, as the magical quality of a 1L biglaw SA position would be impossible for me to turn down... :shock:

Also, what do you do if more than one judge offers you a place?
I'm perfectly happy to mass mail a whole bunch of judges in my target market, but what happens if several judges offer me places? Do they typically do interviews first?
As has been mentioned, I've heard turning down an offer with a judge is seriously bad form...

I think I'm going to mass mail the judges with whom I am most interested in working at the same time as I mass mail the firms (12/1) and then if nothing turns up from those mailings I'll mail an even larger group of judges later in the month (Maybe 12/20, as I'll be done with exams then).

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Kendi
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby Kendi » Mon Nov 14, 2011 1:02 pm

I have been given contradictory answers to this question, so let me ask here.

Are positions with judges salaried? If so, what is a typical salary?

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ph14
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby ph14 » Mon Nov 14, 2011 1:05 pm

Kendi wrote:I have been given contradictory answers to this question, so let me ask here.

Are positions with judges salaried? If so, what is a typical salary?


Usually unpaid.

target
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby target » Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:15 pm

Q: what skills or information do people highlight in cover letter to judges? public speaking? writing skills? interest in social justice?

I have no idea what to include and what not to include when writing cover letters to judges.

03121202698008
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby 03121202698008 » Mon Nov 14, 2011 5:19 pm

ph14 wrote:
Kendi wrote:I have been given contradictory answers to this question, so let me ask here.

Are positions with judges salaried? If so, what is a typical salary?


Usually unpaid.


Always unpaid at least for federal. Pretty sure state too.

03121202698008
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby 03121202698008 » Mon Nov 14, 2011 5:20 pm

target wrote:Q: what skills or information do people highlight in cover letter to judges? public speaking? writing skills? interest in social justice?

I have no idea what to include and what not to include when writing cover letters to judges.


Not social justice. The same as any legal job...research, writing, maturity, organizational skills, etc. you won't be speaking to the public so why would that be a consideration? A word of advice for any job...find out what it entails and tailor your descriptions to those things.

Also, cover letters should always be about what you can add. Not what you hope to get from them.

kaiser
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby kaiser » Mon Nov 14, 2011 5:24 pm

Kendi wrote:I have been given contradictory answers to this question, so let me ask here.

Are positions with judges salaried? If so, what is a typical salary?


Not a single one of the judicial internships I interviewed for were paid positions

target
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby target » Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:26 pm

blowhard wrote:
target wrote:Q: what skills or information do people highlight in cover letter to judges? public speaking? writing skills? interest in social justice?

I have no idea what to include and what not to include when writing cover letters to judges.


Not social justice. The same as any legal job...research, writing, maturity, organizational skills, etc. you won't be speaking to the public so why would that be a consideration? A word of advice for any job...find out what it entails and tailor your descriptions to those things.

Also, cover letters should always be about what you can add. Not what you hope to get from them.


TY. This is very helpful.

69Coronet
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby 69Coronet » Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:13 am

Any opinions on trying to get something paid for a 1L internship?
I'd carry papers around all day if it was a legal internship and I was getting paid to do it.
It'd help me turn down more of my loans, which would be most excellent for my future.
I'm almost considering trying to do something paid instead of a judicial internship.
If I didn't find anything, I could then work at the local DA's office where I used to work, which would, at the very least, be a legal job, even though it would be unpaid...




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