1L Summer Employment

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03121202698008
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby 03121202698008 » Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:48 pm

Jessuf wrote:Reposting in this thread: Some of the summer internships I found allow 1L applicants, but the deadline to apply is in December and they require transcripts. How does that work exactly? Do I just send them something that says I am enrolled in xyz courses, then update them in January with final grades if I haven't heard from them yet?


Look on NALP. I recall seeing instructions on when 1Ls should apply.

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ilovesf
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby ilovesf » Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:37 am

started researching judges today :| have my first career meeting thursday.. need to fix resume and do a mock cover letter tomorrow, but i'm so not excited to do this while i have to edit my final memo and write another paper for torts. blerg.

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rocon7383
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby rocon7383 » Wed Nov 02, 2011 8:04 am

ilovesf wrote:i have to write another paper for torts. blerg.


What madness is this?

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ilovesf
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby ilovesf » Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:16 am

rocon7383 wrote:
ilovesf wrote:i have to write another paper for torts. blerg.


What madness is this?

our prof thinks its unfair that almost all of our grade is from our final, so he had us write two separate papers each worth 15%. he doesn't realize that everyone wishes we just had a final because this thing is such a waste of my time.

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rocon7383
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby rocon7383 » Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:26 pm

ilovesf wrote:
rocon7383 wrote:
ilovesf wrote:i have to write another paper for torts. blerg.


What madness is this?

our prof thinks its unfair that almost all of our grade is from our final, so he had us write two separate papers each worth 15%. he doesn't realize that everyone wishes we just had a final because this thing is such a waste of my time.


:shock:

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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby r6_philly » Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:34 pm

blowhard wrote:
Jessuf wrote:Reposting in this thread: Some of the summer internships I found allow 1L applicants, but the deadline to apply is in December and they require transcripts. How does that work exactly? Do I just send them something that says I am enrolled in xyz courses, then update them in January with final grades if I haven't heard from them yet?


Look on NALP. I recall seeing instructions on when 1Ls should apply.


1L can apply after 12/1. Most deadlines are before grades come out. Some ask for UG grades, and most ask for updates when grades are posted. I think most I saw have decision dates after 2/1 so they would definitely have my grades before deciding.

orderofthings
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby orderofthings » Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:39 pm

I'm looking to apply to federal CoA judges and district court judges in my home state for next summer. Basically the only information I have is their name and contact information via Symplicity. Is there anything else I need to know or should worry about in targeting judges or should I just send cover letters and resumes to all of them?
Last edited by orderofthings on Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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jessuf
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby jessuf » Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:44 pm

r6_philly wrote:
blowhard wrote:
Jessuf wrote:Reposting in this thread: Some of the summer internships I found allow 1L applicants, but the deadline to apply is in December and they require transcripts. How does that work exactly? Do I just send them something that says I am enrolled in xyz courses, then update them in January with final grades if I haven't heard from them yet?


Look on NALP. I recall seeing instructions on when 1Ls should apply.


1L can apply after 12/1. Most deadlines are before grades come out. Some ask for UG grades, and most ask for updates when grades are posted. I think most I saw have decision dates after 2/1 so they would definitely have my grades before deciding.



Ok, thanks. I didn't see anything about updates anywhere, but I will go that route. I saw a lot said 1Ls can apply after Dec. 1 and apps are due mid-Dec. with transcripts but no mention of what to do regarding transcripts if you're a 1L with no grades.

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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby kaiser » Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:45 pm

orderofthings wrote:I'm looking to apply to federal CoA judges and district court judges in my home state for next summer. Basically the only information I have is their name and contact information via Symplicity. Is there anything else I need to know or should worry about in targeting judges or should I just send cover letters and resumes to all of them?


Just resume bomb them all. There is nothing to tailor unless you are applying to judges in your home state, in which case it cant hurt to throw in a few lines about how you are excited to come home. Nearly all the judges I got interviews with were those in my home state, despite applying to many other markets. And many mentioned how much they love having locals of the state working for them as interns. So I would tailor these just to ensure you get some interviews back home, wherever home may be.

orderofthings
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby orderofthings » Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:47 pm

Thanks for the reply. I'm also looking to apply to a few firms. I want to apply to both judges and firms December 1st. I've heard it's really bad form to reject a judge who offers you a position. What if the firm gets back to you later with an offer (unlikely I know but just want to check all my bases)? I mean I would much rather take the money...

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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby kaiser » Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:50 pm

orderofthings wrote:Thanks for the reply. I'm also looking to apply to a few firms. I want to apply to both judges and firms December 1st. I've heard it's really bad form to reject a judge who offers you a position. What if the firm gets back to you later with an offer (unlikely I know but just want to check all my bases)? I mean I would much rather take the money...


You would have to turn the firm down, as you would have already committed to the judge. You don't want to screw over a judge whose offer you have already accepted. It is very poor form, and would reflect poorly on both yourself and your school. But I wouldn't worry because few people end up working for firms during 1L summer, especially if we are talking big firms. Sure, if you go to HYS or CCN, you certainly have a chance at a 1L SA, but that shouldn't be too big a focus for most students.

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jessuf
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby jessuf » Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:02 pm

Anyone have thoughts on: U.S. Attorney's Office internship in my hometown vs. federal district judge internship?

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Cade McNown
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby Cade McNown » Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:15 pm

blowhard wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
blowhard wrote:Neither will be a huge boost so do whichever you prefer. The location of the judge doesn't matter at all.

Agree with the first sentence, completely disagree with the second. OP, it doesn't sound like the Asia experience is going anywhere, so it may be cool and totally worth it to do it on a personal level, it likely won't do a lot for you at OCI. Not saying you shouldn't do it, because it probably won't hurt you and it may be a great experience, just don't pick one over the other because of a professional edge of some sort.

I disagree with blowhard that the location of the internship doesn't matter at all. Sure, a district judge may be a better gig, but unless you personally grew up in this place, there is no better way to show a commitment to a city than working there as a 1L. Being able to network over the summer is obviously key, and being able to say, "I took this 1L job because I am committed to this city" is also very helpful for 2L OCI.


I see your point. I still think I'd go with the experience over location. Although maybe not if I had absolutely no ties to the city and it was one known for requiring that.

Is it credited that Fed. Magistrate Internship < Fed. District Internship? Despite the difference in experience, I was under the impression at least that there's no prestige difference between the two. Wrong?

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Helmholtz
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby Helmholtz » Thu Nov 03, 2011 12:09 am

Cade McNown wrote:
blowhard wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
blowhard wrote:Neither will be a huge boost so do whichever you prefer. The location of the judge doesn't matter at all.

Agree with the first sentence, completely disagree with the second. OP, it doesn't sound like the Asia experience is going anywhere, so it may be cool and totally worth it to do it on a personal level, it likely won't do a lot for you at OCI. Not saying you shouldn't do it, because it probably won't hurt you and it may be a great experience, just don't pick one over the other because of a professional edge of some sort.

I disagree with blowhard that the location of the internship doesn't matter at all. Sure, a district judge may be a better gig, but unless you personally grew up in this place, there is no better way to show a commitment to a city than working there as a 1L. Being able to network over the summer is obviously key, and being able to say, "I took this 1L job because I am committed to this city" is also very helpful for 2L OCI.


I see your point. I still think I'd go with the experience over location. Although maybe not if I had absolutely no ties to the city and it was one known for requiring that.

Is it credited that Fed. Magistrate Internship < Fed. District Internship? Despite the difference in experience, I was under the impression at least that there's no prestige difference between the two. Wrong?


If there is a "prestige difference," it's not enough to matter at OCI or beyond (and only the douchiest of your douchey classmates will care either way). You will probably be doing substantially different work, though. I had a couple upperclassmen specifically say that it's not a bad idea to go after federal magistrate clerkship over an Art III judge because it's easier to get hands-on work with the magistrate, who will also probably be taking significantly fewer clerks. I've heard some say that Art III judge is the way to go. In the end, it doesn't really matter, and I wouldn't be sweating the difference between COA judge / Art III district judge / federal magistrate judge when it comes to looking for a summer job. Law school students will probably tell you that an Art III district judge is more "prestigious" but it's more important to get something in a convenient location to you. And if you hear that one magistrate judge is particularly great to work for, don't look back. The summer can be a terrific mentoring process as well, and a lot of magistrate judges are incredibly generous with the amount of time they'll show you in explaining things and offering suggestions. Same goes for a lot of Art III judges as well.

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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby kaiser » Thu Nov 03, 2011 12:14 am

Helmholtz wrote:If there is a "prestige difference," it's not enough to matter at OCI or beyond (and only the douchiest of your douchey classmates will care either way). You will probably be doing substantially different work, though. I had a couple upperclassmen specifically say that it's not a bad idea to go after federal magistrate clerkship over an Art III judge because it's easier to get hands-on work with the magistrate, who will also probably be taking significantly fewer clerks. I've heard some say that Art III judge is the way to go. In the end, it doesn't really matter, and I wouldn't be sweating the difference between COA judge / Art III district judge / federal magistrate judge when it comes to looking for a summer job. Law school students will probably tell you that an Art III district judge is more "prestigious" but it's more important to get something in a convenient location to you. And if you hear that one magistrate judge is particularly great to work for, don't look back. The summer can be a terrific mentoring process as well, and a lot of magistrate judges are incredibly generous with the amount of time they'll show you in explaining things and offering suggestions. Same goes for a lot of Art III judges as well.


The "significantly fewer clerks" most certainly isn't true as a blanket rule, or generalized assumption. In my courthouse, the magistrate judges had the most interns. Some had as many as 6 or 7 people around a table working. I was with an Art. III judge and I was the only intern in the chambers. Magistrates often have very full dockets, so there is no reason to think they have any less work or any less need for assistance.

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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby Grizz » Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:06 am

Helmholtz wrote:If there is a "prestige difference," it's not enough to matter at OCI or beyond (and only the douchiest of your douchey classmates will care either way). You will probably be doing substantially different work, though. I had a couple upperclassmen specifically say that it's not a bad idea to go after federal magistrate clerkship over an Art III judge because it's easier to get hands-on work with the magistrate, who will also probably be taking significantly fewer clerks. I've heard some say that Art III judge is the way to go. In the end, it doesn't really matter, and I wouldn't be sweating the difference between COA judge / Art III district judge / federal magistrate judge when it comes to looking for a summer job. Law school students will probably tell you that an Art III district judge is more "prestigious" but it's more important to get something in a convenient location to you. And if you hear that one magistrate judge is particularly great to work for, don't look back. The summer can be a terrific mentoring process as well, and a lot of magistrate judges are incredibly generous with the amount of time they'll show you in explaining things and offering suggestions. Same goes for a lot of Art III judges as well.


TCR. The way I see it there is 3 hierarchies of jobs

Jobs that may lead to full-time employ (1L SAs) > other legal > nonlegal

And that's it.

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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby Grizz » Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:07 am

Jessuf wrote:Anyone have thoughts on: U.S. Attorney's Office internship in my hometown vs. federal district judge internship?


Depends largely how the individual judge and the USAO office runs things. There's no "prestige" difference, so do either.

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Helmholtz
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby Helmholtz » Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:57 am

kaiser wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:If there is a "prestige difference," it's not enough to matter at OCI or beyond (and only the douchiest of your douchey classmates will care either way). You will probably be doing substantially different work, though. I had a couple upperclassmen specifically say that it's not a bad idea to go after federal magistrate clerkship over an Art III judge because it's easier to get hands-on work with the magistrate, who will also probably be taking significantly fewer clerks. I've heard some say that Art III judge is the way to go. In the end, it doesn't really matter, and I wouldn't be sweating the difference between COA judge / Art III district judge / federal magistrate judge when it comes to looking for a summer job. Law school students will probably tell you that an Art III district judge is more "prestigious" but it's more important to get something in a convenient location to you. And if you hear that one magistrate judge is particularly great to work for, don't look back. The summer can be a terrific mentoring process as well, and a lot of magistrate judges are incredibly generous with the amount of time they'll show you in explaining things and offering suggestions. Same goes for a lot of Art III judges as well.


The "significantly fewer clerks" most certainly isn't true as a blanket rule, or generalized assumption. In my courthouse, the magistrate judges had the most interns. Some had as many as 6 or 7 people around a table working. I was with an Art. III judge and I was the only intern in the chambers. Magistrates often have very full dockets, so there is no reason to think they have any less work or any less need for assistance.


Yeah, depends on where you are, I guess. I was at one of the busiest federal courthouses in the country and most (all?) of the magistrate judges had only two interns at the most while some of the Art III judges usually had 6–8. A friend who spent the summer at a federal court in another highly-sought-after market told me that it was the same case there. Literally every single person I've talked to about this told me that in their court the Art III judges always had more interns than the magistrates. Maybe it's just the people I'm talking to. I'm not sure what court you were in, but it seems really weird that an Art III judge would take only one intern, especially when demand for any internship at a federal courthouse is so high (at least in the bigger markets, I don't know how it is out in Wyoming).

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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby Helmholtz » Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:06 am

Grizz wrote:TCR. The way I see it there is 3 hierarchies of jobs

Jobs that may lead to full-time employ (1L SAs) > other legal > nonlegal

And that's it.


Pretty much, although there might be some bonus points in there if you can work somewhere during your 1L summer that is in the market you're going to be primarily targeting during OCI (I know that it helped me, not only in showing commitment to the area, but I also ran into three people during my callbacks who interned at the same courthouse I did and knew my judge—easy interviewing connection).

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ilovesf
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby ilovesf » Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:09 am

Is district court really THAT much more prestigious than state court of appeal? I go to Hastings and I want to stay in SF. I can't even send my apps into district court until after I get my grades, so state court of appeal might already be making decisions before district court even calls for interviews. From what our career counselor said, CoA sounds a lot nicer because you get to spend more time with the justice, etc, and I really like research.

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Helmholtz
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby Helmholtz » Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:13 am

ilovesf wrote:Is district court really THAT much more prestigious than state court of appeal? I go to Hastings and I want to stay in SF. I can't even send my apps into district court until after I get my grades, so state court of appeal might already be making decisions before district court even calls for interviews. From what our career counselor said, CoA sounds a lot nicer because you get to spend more time with the justice, etc, and I really like research.


I think you would be fine doing state COA, especially considering you're going to school in CA and want to practice there after you graduate. But why not send apps out to district courts before you get your grades? Art III judges hire plenty of people without even seeing any grades.

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ilovesf
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby ilovesf » Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:17 am

Helmholtz wrote:
ilovesf wrote:Is district court really THAT much more prestigious than state court of appeal? I go to Hastings and I want to stay in SF. I can't even send my apps into district court until after I get my grades, so state court of appeal might already be making decisions before district court even calls for interviews. From what our career counselor said, CoA sounds a lot nicer because you get to spend more time with the justice, etc, and I really like research.


I think you would be fine doing state COA, especially considering you're going to school in CA and want to practice there after you graduate. But why not send apps out to district courts before you get your grades? Art III judges hire plenty of people without even seeing any grades.

In SF they don't accept any bay area apps until after grades because it's such a desired market and a lot of bay area students are able to extern there during the year or something.. I don't know. The rule isn't only for Hastings though. On their website it says they don't even ask for interviews until Feb 1, and I wouldn't want to miss the opportunity of a CoA because I'm waiting on a possible option of district court. Btw, thanks so much for all the help you're giving ITT!

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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby keg411 » Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:17 am

ilovesf wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:
ilovesf wrote:Is district court really THAT much more prestigious than state court of appeal? I go to Hastings and I want to stay in SF. I can't even send my apps into district court until after I get my grades, so state court of appeal might already be making decisions before district court even calls for interviews. From what our career counselor said, CoA sounds a lot nicer because you get to spend more time with the justice, etc, and I really like research.


I think you would be fine doing state COA, especially considering you're going to school in CA and want to practice there after you graduate. But why not send apps out to district courts before you get your grades? Art III judges hire plenty of people without even seeing any grades.

In SF they don't accept any bay area apps until after grades because it's such a desired market and a lot of bay area students are able to extern there during the year or something.. I don't know. The rule isn't only for Hastings though. On their website it says they don't even ask for interviews until Feb 1, and I wouldn't want to miss the opportunity of a CoA because I'm waiting on a possible option of district court. Btw, thanks so much for all the help you're giving ITT!


I did State COA (SSC). Loved it, but it's totally different work then you get at the trial court level and it's much more academic then practical. I did send Dist. Court apps, but only had one interview and did not particularly like the judge. I don't think waiting for after grades is a terrible idea, depending on when you get your grades. But send lower-level courts out early just in case. I sent my state trial apps pre-grades and got interviews pre-grades, even from a much worse school than UCH.

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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby jessuf » Fri Nov 04, 2011 10:05 am

Question about writing samples: As a 1L, what kind of writing samples do you plan on sending out with your apps?

The only writing I've done so far in law school is memos and 1 complaint, none of which are impressive. I wrote some legal research papers in my MA program on First Amendment issues. I'm wondering if an excerpt from one of those papers might be better?

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Helmholtz
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby Helmholtz » Fri Nov 04, 2011 10:32 am

Jessuf wrote:Question about writing samples: As a 1L, what kind of writing samples do you plan on sending out with your apps?

The only writing I've done so far in law school is memos and 1 complaint, none of which are impressive. I wrote some legal research papers in my MA program on First Amendment issues. I'm wondering if an excerpt from one of those papers might be better?


I don't know if any 1Ls applying for summer jobs are going to have "impressive" writing samples. Just make sure whatever you send is flawless in terms of zero grammatical or spelling errors, and is clear and concise. The writing sample is probably used more as a mechanism of weeding people out versus selecting who is "in." I would lean in the direction of using something that you did for law school. That's what most people are going to be using, and maybe the person looking at your app will assume that your law school work was not good since you decided not to send it. Not sure if it matters that much though.




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