1L Summer Employment

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ph14
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1L Summer Employment

Postby ph14 » Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:22 pm

How necessary is it to apply right on 12/1? Could I wait until the middle or end of December when i'm finished with finals to start worrying about applying?

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DoubleChecks
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby DoubleChecks » Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:29 pm

You can wait till later to apply. I've had friends who got jobs who applied later. That being said, applying on 12/1 assures you the greatest chance of getting it. I also had a lot of friends who applied later than me, the same on paper as me, and not get interviews. It is also nice to do the interviews during winter break.

Since it is essentially just updating your resume and writing a cover letter template (that you change a bit based on what you know of each firm), you can really do that any time between now and 12/1 so it wouldn't affect your finals studying time. A little a day keeps unemployment away.
Last edited by DoubleChecks on Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Helmholtz
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby Helmholtz » Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:30 pm

ph14 wrote:How necessary is it to apply right on 12/1? Could I wait until the middle or end of December when i'm finished with finals to start worrying about applying?


I waited until after finals to send everything in. I was targeting judges in a very competitive market and ended up with something, but goddamn, do I wish I would have sent everything out on 12/1. There were a hell of a lot of judges who were done with hiring by the time I sent things out.

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ph14
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby ph14 » Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:33 pm

DoubleChecks wrote:You can wait till later to apply. I've had friends who got jobs who applied later. That being said, applying on 12/1 assures you the greatest chance of getting it. I also had a lot of friends who applied later than me, the same on paper as me, and not get interviews. It is also nice to do the interviews during winter break.

Since it is essentially just updating your resume and writing a cover letter template (that you change a bit based on what you know of each firm), you can really do that any time between now and 12/1 so it wouldn't affect your finals studying time. A little a day keeps unemployment away.


I have some free time in the next few days. I'm not quite sure what I should write about in a legal cover letter. Any idea where some samples are or tips for writing one? Dumb question, but is there a big list of judges and firms somewhere or am I going to have to look up every potential job individually?

Helmholtz wrote:I waited until after finals to send everything in. I was targeting judges in a very competitive market and ended up with something, but goddamn, do I wish I would have sent everything out on 12/1. There were a hell of a lot of judges who were done with hiring by the time I sent things out.


Thanks for the tip. Sounds like I should send out my applications on 12/1.

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DoubleChecks
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby DoubleChecks » Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:39 pm

ph14 wrote:
DoubleChecks wrote:You can wait till later to apply. I've had friends who got jobs who applied later. That being said, applying on 12/1 assures you the greatest chance of getting it. I also had a lot of friends who applied later than me, the same on paper as me, and not get interviews. It is also nice to do the interviews during winter break.

Since it is essentially just updating your resume and writing a cover letter template (that you change a bit based on what you know of each firm), you can really do that any time between now and 12/1 so it wouldn't affect your finals studying time. A little a day keeps unemployment away.


I have some free time in the next few days. I'm not quite sure what I should write about in a legal cover letter. Any idea where some samples are or tips for writing one? Dumb question, but is there a big list of judges and firms somewhere or am I going to have to look up every potential job individually?

Helmholtz wrote:I waited until after finals to send everything in. I was targeting judges in a very competitive market and ended up with something, but goddamn, do I wish I would have sent everything out on 12/1. There were a hell of a lot of judges who were done with hiring by the time I sent things out.


Thanks for the tip. Sounds like I should send out my applications on 12/1.


I don't know much about judges, but for firms, use nalpdirectory.com -- and samples of cover letters/resumes are on the HLS OCS web page. Look through their OCS random employment things, I know there is a link to it somewhere.

RPK34
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby RPK34 » Sat Oct 08, 2011 4:02 pm

DoubleChecks wrote:
ph14 wrote:
DoubleChecks wrote:You can wait till later to apply. I've had friends who got jobs who applied later. That being said, applying on 12/1 assures you the greatest chance of getting it. I also had a lot of friends who applied later than me, the same on paper as me, and not get interviews. It is also nice to do the interviews during winter break.

Since it is essentially just updating your resume and writing a cover letter template (that you change a bit based on what you know of each firm), you can really do that any time between now and 12/1 so it wouldn't affect your finals studying time. A little a day keeps unemployment away.


I have some free time in the next few days. I'm not quite sure what I should write about in a legal cover letter. Any idea where some samples are or tips for writing one? Dumb question, but is there a big list of judges and firms somewhere or am I going to have to look up every potential job individually?

Helmholtz wrote:I waited until after finals to send everything in. I was targeting judges in a very competitive market and ended up with something, but goddamn, do I wish I would have sent everything out on 12/1. There were a hell of a lot of judges who were done with hiring by the time I sent things out.


Thanks for the tip. Sounds like I should send out my applications on 12/1.


I don't know much about judges, but for firms, use nalpdirectory.com -- and samples of cover letters/resumes are on the HLS OCS web page. Look through their OCS random employment things, I know there is a link to it somewhere.


Is there even any point to applying to firms as a 1L?

And Berkley has some sample cover letters here: http://www.law.berkeley.edu/1147.htm

kaiser
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby kaiser » Sat Oct 08, 2011 4:06 pm

If you are at a T14, and have WE or some incredible background prior to school, then perhaps it is good to apply to some 1L large firm jobs. But for >99% of 1L students, it is a waste of time, since it takes time away from applying for jobs where you have a realistic shot. At my T25, 1 student got a 1L firm position, and its because his dad works at the firm.

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DoubleChecks
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby DoubleChecks » Sat Oct 08, 2011 4:07 pm

RPK34 wrote:Is there even any point to applying to firms as a 1L?

And Berkley has some sample cover letters here: http://www.law.berkeley.edu/1147.htm


I guess that would depend on a lot of factors. For ph14 (I believe he goes to my law school), I would recommend it as I know plenty of people in my class who got 1L SA gigs. By plenty, however, I do not mean the majority, or even close to that.

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kjadkins
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby kjadkins » Sat Oct 08, 2011 6:39 pm

kaiser wrote:If you are at a T14, and have WE or some incredible background prior to school, then perhaps it is good to apply to some 1L large firm jobs. But for >99% of 1L students, it is a waste of time, since it takes time away from applying for jobs where you have a realistic shot. At my T25, 1 student got a 1L firm position, and its because his dad works at the firm.


What kinds of jobs to 1Ls typically get? And do most schools provide an on-campus interviewing opportunity for 1Ls in the spring?

I'm so lost on the whole 1L job search thing. All of our student mentors, orientation leaders, etc. answer questions about the 1L job search by telling us we really shouldn't be worried about it yet. I'm pretty sure the school tells them to say that so we don't freak out about it, but not knowing is freaking me out even more.

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MrPapagiorgio
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby MrPapagiorgio » Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:08 pm

kjadkins wrote:What kinds of jobs to 1Ls typically get? And do most schools provide an on-campus interviewing opportunity for 1Ls in the spring?

I'm so lost on the whole 1L job search thing. All of our student mentors, orientation leaders, etc. answer questions about the 1L job search by telling us we really shouldn't be worried about it yet. I'm pretty sure the school tells them to say that so we don't freak out about it, but not knowing is freaking me out even more.

I feel ya, since my school is telling us a similar line. The reason I don't get the whole process is that if 2L positions are mostly grade-based, how do we get 1L positions when we don't even have grades? And I can't imagine stressing about it around 12/1 when finals are during that same time period.

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DoubleChecks
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby DoubleChecks » Sat Oct 08, 2011 8:03 pm

MrPapagiorgio wrote:
kjadkins wrote:What kinds of jobs to 1Ls typically get? And do most schools provide an on-campus interviewing opportunity for 1Ls in the spring?

I'm so lost on the whole 1L job search thing. All of our student mentors, orientation leaders, etc. answer questions about the 1L job search by telling us we really shouldn't be worried about it yet. I'm pretty sure the school tells them to say that so we don't freak out about it, but not knowing is freaking me out even more.

I feel ya, since my school is telling us a similar line. The reason I don't get the whole process is that if 2L positions are mostly grade-based, how do we get 1L positions when we don't even have grades? And I can't imagine stressing about it around 12/1 when finals are during that same time period.


I'm going to be honest and say that I actually don't know how 1L job searching may go at other schools. I can only speak for my own. The reason I commented to ph14's question specifically is because I happen to know he is a 1L here, and in that case, waiting for grades is completely unnecessary (as one professor said to me, we're just graded on unicorns and gold stars here anyways haha).

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MrPapagiorgio
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby MrPapagiorgio » Sat Oct 08, 2011 8:08 pm

DoubleChecks wrote:
MrPapagiorgio wrote:
kjadkins wrote:What kinds of jobs to 1Ls typically get? And do most schools provide an on-campus interviewing opportunity for 1Ls in the spring?

I'm so lost on the whole 1L job search thing. All of our student mentors, orientation leaders, etc. answer questions about the 1L job search by telling us we really shouldn't be worried about it yet. I'm pretty sure the school tells them to say that so we don't freak out about it, but not knowing is freaking me out even more.

I feel ya, since my school is telling us a similar line. The reason I don't get the whole process is that if 2L positions are mostly grade-based, how do we get 1L positions when we don't even have grades? And I can't imagine stressing about it around 12/1 when finals are during that same time period.


I'm going to be honest and say that I actually don't know how 1L job searching may go at other schools. I can only speak for my own. The reason I commented to ph14's question specifically is because I happen to know he is a 1L here, and in that case, waiting for grades is completely unnecessary (as one professor said to me, we're just graded on unicorns and gold stars here anyways haha).

Grades are only unnecessary at Hahvahd because, well, it's frickin Harvard. Down here in the T30 shitboxes, they need to separate us somehow.

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DoubleChecks
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby DoubleChecks » Sat Oct 08, 2011 8:11 pm

MrPapagiorgio wrote:
DoubleChecks wrote:
MrPapagiorgio wrote:
kjadkins wrote:What kinds of jobs to 1Ls typically get? And do most schools provide an on-campus interviewing opportunity for 1Ls in the spring?

I'm so lost on the whole 1L job search thing. All of our student mentors, orientation leaders, etc. answer questions about the 1L job search by telling us we really shouldn't be worried about it yet. I'm pretty sure the school tells them to say that so we don't freak out about it, but not knowing is freaking me out even more.

I feel ya, since my school is telling us a similar line. The reason I don't get the whole process is that if 2L positions are mostly grade-based, how do we get 1L positions when we don't even have grades? And I can't imagine stressing about it around 12/1 when finals are during that same time period.


I'm going to be honest and say that I actually don't know how 1L job searching may go at other schools. I can only speak for my own. The reason I commented to ph14's question specifically is because I happen to know he is a 1L here, and in that case, waiting for grades is completely unnecessary (as one professor said to me, we're just graded on unicorns and gold stars here anyways haha).

Grades are only unnecessary at Hahvahd because, well, it's frickin Harvard. Down here in the T30 shitboxes, they need to separate us somehow.


Thus, my aforementioned quoted comment.

shock259
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby shock259 » Sat Oct 08, 2011 8:28 pm

My CDO has been telling us the same thing: don't worry about 1L summer jobs until after first semester. I don't believe them, though. I'm going to have the CDO review my resume/cover letters/etc on Nov 1, fix them up, and send them out on Dec 1. I'm at a T40, secondary market, top school in the region and I'm preparing for a bumpy ride.

Caveat: I'm gunning for JAG. As for where I'm applying, biglaw SA is out of the question for my school. I'll be applying to medium/small firms, courts, and nonprofits. There's no way I'll get paid, so I'm focusing on something. Anything in a remotely related field. The JAG recruiter told me that anything outside of private practice would be looked favorably. I'm also applying for the 1L Navy JAG summer internship.
Last edited by shock259 on Sat Oct 08, 2011 8:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

kaiser
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby kaiser » Sat Oct 08, 2011 8:29 pm

Most people work for public interest organizations, govenment agencies, judges, and some people also work for small firms that hire on a more informal basis. Some people will also work as research assistants. 99% of your classmates will do one of these things. And some of them can be incredibly helpful and interesting. It all depends on the job. I know people who wasted tons of time applying to big firms and then didn't have time to apply to the realistic positions since finals were rolling around. My advice is to be realistic.

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Sat Oct 08, 2011 8:44 pm

kaiser wrote:Most people work for public interest organizations, govenment agencies, judges, and some people also work for small firms that hire on a more informal basis. Some people will also work as research assistants. 99% of your classmates will do one of these things. And some of them can be incredibly helpful and interesting. It all depends on the job. I know people who wasted tons of time applying to big firms and then didn't have time to apply to the realistic positions since finals were rolling around. My advice is to be realistic.


No offense meant, but this is simply not true at many schools. I knew a significant amount of 1L's at UT who got biglaw 1L SA's. It wasn't anywhere near the majority of people and probably not a quarter, but it was way more than 1% (and it definitely paid off for those who got one).

I did not apply to any firms for my 1L summer, and I don't regret not doing so. But it did make 2L OCI much more stressful since I did not have an offer in hand at the start of things like a lot of my classmates did. Not having a 1L SA on my resume may have hurt as well at some of the more selective firms at 2L OCI, but that may be speculation on my part.

kaiser
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby kaiser » Sat Oct 08, 2011 8:47 pm

It all depends on where OP goes to school. At my T25, one person out of 275 worked for a Vault firm during 1L summer. The better the school, the better the chance. At my school, it was even less than 1% chance.

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Sat Oct 08, 2011 8:56 pm

kaiser wrote:It all depends on where OP goes to school. At my T25, one person out of 275 worked for a Vault firm during 1L summer. The better the school, the better the chance. At my school, it was even less than 1% chance.


Agreed. OP goes to harvard though (if Doublechecks is right).

kaiser
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby kaiser » Sat Oct 08, 2011 8:58 pm

Richie Tenenbaum wrote:
kaiser wrote:It all depends on where OP goes to school. At my T25, one person out of 275 worked for a Vault firm during 1L summer. The better the school, the better the chance. At my school, it was even less than 1% chance.


Agreed. OP goes to harvard though (if Doublechecks is right).


Ok well then, yeah, a 1L big firm job is entirely possible.

delusional
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby delusional » Sat Oct 08, 2011 9:01 pm

What can a 1L do as an SA for a big firm, other than get coffee and waste money with incompetent searches? I'm all gung-ho to apply, but that's about all I can do.

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DoubleChecks
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby DoubleChecks » Sat Oct 08, 2011 9:04 pm

delusional wrote:What can a 1L do as an SA for a big firm, other than get coffee and waste money with incompetent searches? I'm all gung-ho to apply, but that's about all I can do.


If you mean a straight-up legit biglaw SA job...a 1L is treated no different than the 2Ls (save when hiring time comes around, the question then is whether to extend a return summer offer rather than a permanent offer = lower bar). Same work, same treatment (at least at my firm and all the firms my friends 1L SA'd at). I mean...not sure what a 2L knows that a 1L doesn't. A good chunk of your work won't even require you to have gone to law school. If you're in litigation, I'm sure it will look a tad more familiar (yay westlaw research! [which btw you learn during 1L year]), but for transactional work...lol iunno I've never had to read over a contract and wonder...is there consideration here? haha

delusional
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby delusional » Sat Oct 08, 2011 9:13 pm

DoubleChecks wrote:
delusional wrote:What can a 1L do as an SA for a big firm, other than get coffee and waste money with incompetent searches? I'm all gung-ho to apply, but that's about all I can do.


If you mean a straight-up legit biglaw SA job...a 1L is treated no different than the 2Ls (save when hiring time comes around, the question then is whether to extend a return summer offer rather than a permanent offer = lower bar). Same work, same treatment (at least at my firm and all the firms my friends 1L SA'd at). I mean...not sure what a 2L knows that a 1L doesn't. A good chunk of your work won't even require you to have gone to law school. If you're in litigation, I'm sure it will look a tad more familiar (yay westlaw research! [which btw you learn during 1L year]), but for transactional work...lol iunno I've never had to read over a contract and wonder...is there consideration here? haha

Well then...What have you had to look for? At this point, I might notice a gravy stain, but that's about it. I guess by the time summer comes I will have taken contracts though.

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DoubleChecks
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby DoubleChecks » Sat Oct 08, 2011 9:30 pm

delusional wrote:
DoubleChecks wrote:
delusional wrote:What can a 1L do as an SA for a big firm, other than get coffee and waste money with incompetent searches? I'm all gung-ho to apply, but that's about all I can do.


If you mean a straight-up legit biglaw SA job...a 1L is treated no different than the 2Ls (save when hiring time comes around, the question then is whether to extend a return summer offer rather than a permanent offer = lower bar). Same work, same treatment (at least at my firm and all the firms my friends 1L SA'd at). I mean...not sure what a 2L knows that a 1L doesn't. A good chunk of your work won't even require you to have gone to law school. If you're in litigation, I'm sure it will look a tad more familiar (yay westlaw research! [which btw you learn during 1L year]), but for transactional work...lol iunno I've never had to read over a contract and wonder...is there consideration here? haha

Well then...What have you had to look for? At this point, I might notice a gravy stain, but that's about it. I guess by the time summer comes I will have taken contracts though.


Most transactional work either involves 1) researching something on westlaw and letting your supervising attorney know the relevant law in that area (probably in a short memo) [and the area is so jdx/state/topic specific that chances are a 2L has not happened to have taken an elective on this one question either] or 2) looking up/summarizing things in contracts that you honestly do not need a legal degree to do. Sure there are legal issues where having a general background in certain fields of law would be helpful, but there is PLENTY of work for summers to do that would not require that hahaha. A lot of it is on the job learning.

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Lisi
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby Lisi » Sun Oct 09, 2011 9:43 am

Can someone perhaps explain to what extent our cover letters need to be tailored to different places. I imagine we will have several templates (judge, firm, etc.), but, within each template category, how much will be tailored to specific places? 20% of the template? More? Less?
Thanks!

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DoubleChecks
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Re: 1L Summer Employment

Postby DoubleChecks » Sun Oct 09, 2011 12:12 pm

Lisi wrote:Can someone perhaps explain to what extent our cover letters need to be tailored to different places. I imagine we will have several templates (judge, firm, etc.), but, within each template category, how much will be tailored to specific places? 20% of the template? More? Less?
Thanks!


For firms, I would say 17.1% tailored.

lol, in reality it comes down to how much spare time you have. It would be great if a quarter of your whole cover letter were tailored specifically to that firm...but that takes a lot of researching/writing time. I had maybe 2 lines tailored for each one. A cover letter is only a page after all.




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