Socratic fumbling

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Borhas
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Re: Socratic fumbling

Postby Borhas » Wed Sep 14, 2011 12:59 am

stuffnuff wrote:So, I've been cold-called in my courses a few times and I am not a public speaker. I have consistently done the word vomit thing when describing the cases, falter when asked questions, or just plain feel like the professor is speaking Mandarin when I'm asked a follow-up question. It's my own social anxiety, I get that, but I guess I don't know if it's something I should just shrug off or if I should be worried about it. 4th week into 1L, ftr. Any advice/feedback/criticism is freely accepted.


don't even consider worrying about it unless you want to be a PD or DA or on the moot court team... if that is the case then shrug it off

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rayiner
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Re: Socratic fumbling

Postby rayiner » Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:06 am

stuffnuff wrote:So, I've been cold-called in my courses a few times and I am not a public speaker. I have consistently done the word vomit thing when describing the cases, falter when asked questions, or just plain feel like the professor is speaking Mandarin when I'm asked a follow-up question. It's my own social anxiety, I get that, but I guess I don't know if it's something I should just shrug off or if I should be worried about it. 4th week into 1L, ftr. Any advice/feedback/criticism is freely accepted.


I wouldn't worry about your cold call answers, which are pointless, but I'd seriously worry about OCI interviews.

071816
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Re: Socratic fumbling

Postby 071816 » Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:08 am

rayiner wrote:
stuffnuff wrote:So, I've been cold-called in my courses a few times and I am not a public speaker. I have consistently done the word vomit thing when describing the cases, falter when asked questions, or just plain feel like the professor is speaking Mandarin when I'm asked a follow-up question. It's my own social anxiety, I get that, but I guess I don't know if it's something I should just shrug off or if I should be worried about it. 4th week into 1L, ftr. Any advice/feedback/criticism is freely accepted.


I wouldn't worry about your cold call answers, which are pointless, but I'd seriously worry about OCI interviews.


I feel like there is a huge difference between getting cold-called in class by a professor and talking to an interviewer one on one. To me it's like an apples and oranges comparison.

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savagedm
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Re: Socratic fumbling

Postby savagedm » Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:21 am

ggocat wrote:If you're referring to grades, I highly doubt the bottom 50% of any law school class looks down on someone who is not good at responding to the socratic method.


You'd be surprised who scores low. From what I find, most of my classmates don't care how someone performs and even feels bad for them if they mess up the law. If you have spent any minute of time around law students you will know we are not stupid, but we do sometimes get flustered.

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Jack Smirks
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Re: Socratic fumbling

Postby Jack Smirks » Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:24 am

Everyone is going to laugh at you.

shock259
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Re: Socratic fumbling

Postby shock259 » Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:37 am

No one remembers. And no one really cares.

It's hard to put it past you and let it go, but you have to learn to do just that.

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5ky
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Re: Socratic fumbling

Postby 5ky » Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:44 am

chimp wrote:
rayiner wrote:
stuffnuff wrote:So, I've been cold-called in my courses a few times and I am not a public speaker. I have consistently done the word vomit thing when describing the cases, falter when asked questions, or just plain feel like the professor is speaking Mandarin when I'm asked a follow-up question. It's my own social anxiety, I get that, but I guess I don't know if it's something I should just shrug off or if I should be worried about it. 4th week into 1L, ftr. Any advice/feedback/criticism is freely accepted.


I wouldn't worry about your cold call answers, which are pointless, but I'd seriously worry about OCI interviews.


I feel like there is a huge difference between getting cold-called in class by a professor and talking to an interviewer one on one. To me it's like an apples and oranges comparison.


Disagree (I agree with rayiner). First time you get asked a question by an interviewer that you haven't prepared, I bet the chances are high OP starts stuttering and bumbling his/her way through an answer.

I speak from personal experience. Took me a few interviews to get it down.

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savagedm
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Re: Socratic fumbling

Postby savagedm » Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:25 pm

betasteve wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:Cold calling absolutely does not matter. Half the kids on law review are those that never spoke in class and were barely prepared when called on. Focus on the exam and forget about looking good during cold calls.

100% this and only this.


Switching the "decaf" and "regular" labels at the drip coffee stand helps too ;)

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Renne Walker
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Re: Socratic fumbling

Postby Renne Walker » Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:43 am

During my first week I only raised my hand once to answer a question. Then yesterday I got my first cold call―the exchange lasted 40-minutes. Today a couple classmates were very complimentary, saying that I had set the bar. Meaningless or not, it was good for my self-confidence. Well, back to the books.

TheFriendlyBarber
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Re: Socratic fumbling

Postby TheFriendlyBarber » Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:56 am

Renne Walker wrote:During my first week I only raised my hand once to answer a question. Then yesterday I got my first cold call―the exchange lasted 40-minutes. Today a couple classmates were very complimentary, saying that I had set the bar. Meaningless or not, it was good for my self-confidence. Well, back to the books.


I have a cookie I'd like to send your way.

shoeshine
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Re: Socratic fumbling

Postby shoeshine » Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:21 am

Renne Walker wrote:During my first week I only raised my hand once to answer a question. Then yesterday I got my first cold call―the exchange lasted 40-minutes. Today a couple classmates were very complimentary, saying that I had set the bar. Meaningless or not, it was good for my self-confidence. Well, back to the books.

I had one like that yesterday. I am glad I got it out of the way because it only happens to you once a semester in that class.

My intuition seems to be that the professors appreciate people who have read and formed an opinion just as much as someone who is "right" or agrees with them in that situation. Often, wrong answers that are backed up with well reasoned arguments represent the minority opinion that the professor also wants to highlight.

It is only when you have not done the reading or have no idea what is going on that the cold call can actually get awkward.

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quiver
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Re: Socratic fumbling

Postby quiver » Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:33 pm

shock259 wrote:No one remembers. And no one really cares.

It's hard to put it past you and let it go, but you have to learn to do just that.

This. Everyone is worried about how they look during their own cold calls.

betasteve wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:Cold calling absolutely does not matter. Half the kids on law review are those that never spoke in class and were barely prepared when called on. Focus on the exam and forget about looking good during cold calls.

100% this and only this.

I'll one up you and 101% agree.

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Redzo
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Re: Socratic fumbling

Postby Redzo » Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:08 pm

Bumping this thread instead of starting a new one. After not being called on in the first 3 weeks of class, I have been cold-called in 3 different classes already this week. Following the exam-focused conventional wisdom on TLS, I feel like I have a good understanding of the principles of law that we are learning, though I tend to forget minor procedural and background details of the cases by the time the professor starts asking questions. Nevertheless, I have found that just by not being shy, and trying to go along in the direction that the professor is taking things, I did well enough. Enough so that I have received a couple of nice comments from other students.

And to anybody else who is afraid of being cold-called, personally I can say that I don't remember a damn thing about any time that anyone has been cold-called so far, except for myself.

r6_philly
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Re: Socratic fumbling

Postby r6_philly » Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:47 am

chimp wrote:
rayiner wrote:
I wouldn't worry about your cold call answers, which are pointless, but I'd seriously worry about OCI interviews.


I feel like there is a huge difference between getting cold-called in class by a professor and talking to an interviewer one on one. To me it's like an apples and oranges comparison.


They are different, but you should develop the skill of being able to answer questions you didn't prepare for or don't feel like you are prepared for.

071816
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Re: Socratic fumbling

Postby 071816 » Fri Sep 23, 2011 12:37 pm

r6_philly wrote:
chimp wrote:
rayiner wrote:
I wouldn't worry about your cold call answers, which are pointless, but I'd seriously worry about OCI interviews.


I feel like there is a huge difference between getting cold-called in class by a professor and talking to an interviewer one on one. To me it's like an apples and oranges comparison.


They are different, but you should develop the skill of being able to answer questions you didn't prepare for or don't feel like you are prepared for.


Definitely agree with you there.

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TTH
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Re: Socratic fumbling

Postby TTH » Fri Sep 23, 2011 12:59 pm

Don't worry about looking good during cold calls. Do worry about looking good during bar review.


And as an aside, learn to control your public speaking anxiety, even transactional attorneys need some public speaking skills. Do toastmasters or something.

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dood
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Re: Socratic fumbling

Postby dood » Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:08 pm





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