Second thoughts already? Forum

[wallawhite1987]

I never thought I would be asking this on TLS after only a couple weeks, but I'm wondering if this is the right fit for me.

So, I'm a couple weeks in, and I don't know what to think. I feel kind of ridiculous voicing these concerns online to a bunch of perfect strangers, but I'm going to anyway. I'll try to make this as concise as possible

Background: I decided to go to law school with the sole purpose of going into criminal prosecution. So far I'm grasping the material, and I think I can do well in law school. I'm not at all interested in money. Don't get me wrong - excessive amounts of money would be great, but it's not that important to me at all.

I just find everything fairly dull. My strengths are very much so geared towards law school (i.e., research, reading, writing, and formulating arguments); however, even if I did do achieve my goal of securing a job in criminal prosecution, I'm not sure I would enjoy sitting at a desk 95% of the day to get 5% of fulfillment in the courtroom.

After scholarships, my total debt (including undergrad) will come out to around 70k. This is not too much, but I still think it's a lot to spend if I'm not certain this is what I want. It seems like everyone (i.e., those that know nothing about law school) can't even imagine how someone could pass up the opportunity to become a lawyer. As you all well know, everyone outside the profession thinks it's all cocktails and country clubs, and it's impossible to explain to them that it's not. I just think that I would be better off as a police officer or something.

I guess what I'm wondering is whether or not this is a mistake considering I don't seem to feel the same way as everyone else in law school (or TLS for that matter) does.

I really wish I loved research and writing, but I don't. It is an outstanding profession, but I just don't know if it's for me. f

I guess my question is this: If I'm not gung-ho, is this a bad sign? Should should I get out before I waste anymore money? Am I just getting cold feet and should suck it up?

[target]

I guess my question is this: If I'm not gung-ho, is this a bad sign? Should should I get out before I waste anymore money? Am I just getting cold feet and should suck it up?

1. It is not a bad sign if you are not gung-ho.
2. What is your job option if you drop out?
3. Feeling cold feet is before you started, so I guess what you feel now is not getting cold feet. It's probably just weird feeling when adapting to new top-law-schools.com style.
4. Pending on your answer to my #2 question

[gilgamesh23]

It's going to be a ton of work. Beginning and end of story, you will work hard or you will fail. At the end, you will likely get a professional level job (unemployment during deapest part of recession for professional level education was less than 5%). This job class typically starts at 60k. But agian, you will work very hard. If you are uninterested in the first few weeks of material, figure out a way to get interested. You will be reading cases for the rest of your law school career. Operate under the assumption that if someone took the effort neccessary to publish a piece of written authority, it has something interesting to say.
And understand, at any good institution, the first quarter is designed to discourage uninterested practictioners. You are entering a professional undertaking. You're not studying a general field like english, etc. You are preparing to help people with legal difficulties. It's expensive and consuming. A good institution will understand that weeding out all uninterested parties as quickly as possible, while hard in the short term, ensures a better long term reputation. So stick it out, if you actually want to practice law, and expect to work really hard if you want to do well.

[seatown12]

even if I did do achieve my goal of securing a job in criminal prosecution, I'm not sure I would enjoy sitting at a desk 95% of the day to get 5% of fulfillment in the courtroom.

If you work as a prosecutor you will not spend 95% of your time at a desk.

[PDaddy]

My guess is that most students who go to law school are ill-suited for the profession. The students with the best grades and LSAT's don't necessarily make the best law grades. The students with the best law grades aren't necessarily the best law students, and the best law students don't necessarily make the best lawyers.

That discussion doesn't even include the "average" students, or those less accomplished, and it certainly doesn't include those who cheated their way through undergrad only to pursue a profession that decries such behavior.

Add to this a very well-known fact: despite professing to the contrary, most law students join the profession for less-than-altruistic reasons, i.e., financial gain. They would be better-off - not to mention happier - as investment bankers, entrepreneurs, or real estate salesmen or developers.

I have been screaming this at the top of my lungs for several years now, but I am glad that some students are really starting to think this thing through, whether prompted by the bad economy or for other reasons. For those of us who truly want to be lawyers - and always have - law is a calling. We don't have to think about it, we are just doing it.

On the other hand, the fact that you do have to put in some thought should not necessarily deter you from pursuing a law career or believing that you can be highly successful. Think about it and follow your heart. It will never steer you wrong.

[Kabuo]

It's going to be a ton of work. Beginning and end of story, you will work hard or you will fail. At the end, you will likely get a professional level job (unemployment during deapest part of recession for professional level education was less than 5%). This job class typically starts at 60k. But agian, you will work very hard. If you are uninterested in the first few weeks of material, figure out a way to get interested. You will be reading cases for the rest of your law school career. Operate under the assumption that if someone took the effort neccessary to publish a piece of written authority, it has something interesting to say.
And understand, at any good institution, the first quarter is designed to discourage uninterested practictioners. You are entering a professional undertaking. You're not studying a general field like english, etc. You are preparing to help people with legal difficulties. It's expensive and consuming. A good institution will understand that weeding out all uninterested parties as quickly as possible, while hard in the short term, ensures a better long term reputation. So stick it out, if you actually want to practice law, and expect to work really hard if you want to do well.

First, this is pretty optimistic about employment chances, even more so since we know nothing about school range. Second, "good institutions" go out of their way not to weed people out by failing people. The only weeding out they do, if any, is in the application process. The schools that regularly fail people are the bad schools.

[TheFactor]

It's going to be a ton of work. Beginning and end of story, you will work hard or you will fail. At the end, you will likely get a professional level job (unemployment during deapest part of recession for professional level education was less than 5%). This job class typically starts at 60k. But agian, you will work very hard. If you are uninterested in the first few weeks of material, figure out a way to get interested. You will be reading cases for the rest of your law school career. Operate under the assumption that if someone took the effort neccessary to publish a piece of written authority, it has something interesting to say.
And understand, at any good institution, the first quarter is designed to discourage uninterested practictioners. You are entering a professional undertaking. You're not studying a general field like english, etc. You are preparing to help people with legal difficulties. It's expensive and consuming. A good institution will understand that weeding out all uninterested parties as quickly as possible, while hard in the short term, ensures a better long term reputation. So stick it out, if you actually want to practice law, and expect to work really hard if you want to do well.

no

[thrillerjesus]

I guess my question is this: If I'm not gung-ho, is this a bad sign? Should should I get out before I waste anymore money? Am I just getting cold feet and should suck it up?

1. It is not a bad sign if you are not gung-ho.

Yes, it is. In any profession, being successful requires either a certain amount of hard work or a certain amount of random good luck. You can't rely on luck, and hard work is infinitely harder when you don't love what you're doing. If you don't love this, it's probably not going to be worth it no matter how much money you end up making.

[wallawhite1987]

I guess my question is this: If I'm not gung-ho, is this a bad sign? Should should I get out before I waste anymore money? Am I just getting cold feet and should suck it up?

1. It is not a bad sign if you are not gung-ho.
2. What is your job option if you drop out?
3. Feeling cold feet is before you started, so I guess what you feel now is not getting cold feet. It's probably just weird feeling when adapting to new top-law-schools.com style.
4. Pending on your answer to my #2 question

I was thinking about maybe the police academy. Doing something hands-on seems a lot more interesting than sitting behind a desk all day. There's obviously nothing wrong with desk work, but I just don't know if I personally could do that for the next 40 years.

Police work has its advantages. Rightly or wrongly, I think you will see more and more that the private sector will become less and less lucrative and will have less job security. Government jobs, on the other hand, will go in the opposite direction and will be highly sought after. I'm not saying government work is completely protected by any stretch, but you are a lot less likely to lose your job or take a pay cut than those who are working in private sector. For example, think about how hard it is to fire a public school teacher. Unless you really mess up, you're not going anywhere.

[Extension_Cord]

I guess my question is this: If I'm not gung-ho, is this a bad sign? Should should I get out before I waste anymore money? Am I just getting cold feet and should suck it up?

1. It is not a bad sign if you are not gung-ho.
2. What is your job option if you drop out?
3. Feeling cold feet is before you started, so I guess what you feel now is not getting cold feet. It's probably just weird feeling when adapting to new top-law-schools.com style.
4. Pending on your answer to my #2 question

I was thinking about maybe the police academy. Doing something hands-on seems a lot more interesting than sitting behind a desk all day. There's obviously nothing wrong with desk work, but I just don't know if I personally could do that for the next 40 years.

Police work has its advantages. Rightly or wrongly, I think you will see more and more that the private sector will become less and less lucrative and will have less job security. Government jobs, on the other hand, will go in the opposite direction and will be highly sought after. I'm not saying government work is completely protected by any stretch, but you are a lot less likely to lose your job or take a pay cut than those who are working in private sector. For example, think about how hard it is to fire a public school teacher. Unless you really mess up, you're not going anywhere.

During orientation, my school told us during 1L and especially the first month you will feel overwhelmed. I'd finish the first semester atleast since you paid for it. If you decide its not for you, then plan accordingly. You may regret it for the rest of your life if you dont atleast finish the first semester.

[target]

Yes, it is. In any profession, being successful requires either a certain amount of hard work or a certain amount of random good luck. You can't rely on luck, and hard work is infinitely harder when you don't love what you're doing. If you don't love this, it's probably not going to be worth it no matter how much money you end up making.

Are you f-ing high on some sort of hippy, hollywood, feeling-good movies?

I was thinking about maybe the police academy. Doing something hands-on seems a lot more interesting than sitting behind a desk all day. There's obviously nothing wrong with desk work, but I just don't know if I personally could do that for the next 40 years.

Police work has its advantages. Rightly or wrongly, I think you will see more and more that the private sector will become less and less lucrative and will have less job security. Government jobs, on the other hand, will go in the opposite direction and will be highly sought after. I'm not saying government work is completely protected by any stretch, but you are a lot less likely to lose your job or take a pay cut than those who are working in private sector. For example, think about how hard it is to fire a public school teacher. Unless you really mess up, you're not going anywhere.

I don't know where you are, but I think you need to confirm what you said is true. Public school teachers are being laid off, and many government agencies are in hiring freeze. I am not saying your plan becoming a police is not sound. I am all for public service and protecting our community. However, you have gone a long way to apply for and got accepted into law school, and you had no job lined up for you at this moment. Why not stick around this semester while applying to/preparing for the police academy? And if you feel the same about law school in December, drop out and pursuit your dream career.

[wallawhite1987]

Yes, it is. In any profession, being successful requires either a certain amount of hard work or a certain amount of random good luck. You can't rely on luck, and hard work is infinitely harder when you don't love what you're doing. If you don't love this, it's probably not going to be worth it no matter how much money you end up making.

Are you f-ing high on some sort of hippy, hollywood, feeling-good movies?

I was thinking about maybe the police academy. Doing something hands-on seems a lot more interesting than sitting behind a desk all day. There's obviously nothing wrong with desk work, but I just don't know if I personally could do that for the next 40 years.

Police work has its advantages. Rightly or wrongly, I think you will see more and more that the private sector will become less and less lucrative and will have less job security. Government jobs, on the other hand, will go in the opposite direction and will be highly sought after. I'm not saying government work is completely protected by any stretch, but you are a lot less likely to lose your job or take a pay cut than those who are working in private sector. For example, think about how hard it is to fire a public school teacher. Unless you really mess up, you're not going anywhere.

I don't know where you are, but I think you need to confirm what you said is true. Public school teachers are being laid off, and many government agencies are in hiring freeze. I am not saying your plan becoming a police is not sound. I am all for public service and protecting our community. However, you have gone a long way to apply for and got accepted into law school, and you had no job lined up for you at this moment. Why not stick around this semester while applying to/preparing for the police academy? And if you feel the same about law school in December, drop out and pursuit your dream career.

I'm definitely going to finish this semester so that my options remain open. My point was not that nothing bad ever happens to government workers but that they have more security than someone at a law firm, for example, does. Incidentally, government workers are overpaid big time. Have you seen how much firefighters and COPS make? It's ridiculous. They probably make more than the average attorney and have much less education. It's funny, because many people have the ability to do these jobs and yet they still pay great and have excellent benefits. Not many people have what it takes to be a lawyer, and look what's happing to the profession.

[northwood]

before you make the major decison to drop or stay, you need to figure out what you want to do. remind yourself why you went to law school anyways( and go beyond wanting to do prosecution). YOu are in the middle of a major change in your life. Its perfectly normal to wonder or guess if this is good decision or not. A lot of fellow 1L's are feeling similar thoughts. Stick it out for the semester, and dont worry about the next step. I would take the rest of the day off and just forget school for a bit.

[forty-two]

OP, you seem very worried about being stuck behind a desk all day. However, as seatown already pointed out, this won't happen to you if you become a prosecutor. If I were you, I'd do some research on what prosecutors actually do day to day before deciding whether to drop out (especially since you already paid for this semester and presumably can't get your money back).

[target]

I'm definitely going to finish this semester so that my options remain open. My point was not that nothing bad ever happens to government workers but that they have more security than someone at a law firm, for example, does. Incidentally, government workers are overpaid big time. Have you seen how much firefighters and COPS make? It's ridiculous. They probably make more than the average attorney and have much less education. It's funny, because many people have the ability to do these jobs and yet they still pay great and have excellent benefits. Not many people have what it takes to be a lawyer, and look what's happing to the profession.

It's good to hear that you plan to finish this semester. I want to reiterate my previous statement that I don't know where you are, so if you have confirmed the job market in your area, kudos to you. I agree with you that the competency levels in many government jobs may not be held as high and as strict as big law job. However, if I were you, I wouldn't count on working govt. jobs is chill and relax.

[wallawhite1987]

I'm definitely going to finish this semester so that my options remain open. My point was not that nothing bad ever happens to government workers but that they have more security than someone at a law firm, for example, does. Incidentally, government workers are overpaid big time. Have you seen how much firefighters and COPS make? It's ridiculous. They probably make more than the average attorney and have much less education. It's funny, because many people have the ability to do these jobs and yet they still pay great and have excellent benefits. Not many people have what it takes to be a lawyer, and look what's happing to the profession.

It's good to hear that you plan to finish this semester. I want to reiterate my previous statement that I don't know where you are, so if you have confirmed the job market in your area, kudos to you. I agree with you that the competency levels in many government jobs may not be held as high and as strict as big law job. However, if I were you, I wouldn't count on working govt. jobs is chill and relax.

I just assumed it was like that everywhere. Again, I'm not saying that people at these jobs are set no matter what, but they do have protections that are not afforded to the private sector. Unless biglaw decides to unionize sometime soon (ha), I think it will remain a lot more precarious than government jobs.

[Nicholasnickynic]

You might only argue in front of a jury about 5% of the time.. But I'd say being in court is more like 30%. In addition to trying cases, you are often in court for other reasons- you often argue in front of the judge regarding, say revocation of probation, or a motion to suppress evidence in a dui case etc..

The prosecutor I work for goes court 3 days a week, and each court day he spends, depending, 3-6 hours in court (rough approximation).

And even when you are not in court, it's not like you are sitting behind a desk, doing busy work. You are coming up with plea deals that will determine peoples lives for the next 1, 5 or 20 years. Then of course, you have to get the lawyer and defendant to agree with the plea deals.

Is being a criminal prosecutor like law and order? No. And if you didn't do the research before you came to law school, that's you're own fault. But its still a job that requires oral advocacy, and one where you constantly hold other people's future in you hands. Hardly a boring ol' desk job.

--> 2L currently interning with prosecutor's office.

[wallawhite1987]

You might only argue in front of a jury about 5% of the time.. But I'd say being in court is more like 30%. In addition to trying cases, you are often in court for other reasons- you often argue in front of the judge regarding, say revocation of probation, or a motion to suppress evidence in a dui case etc..

The prosecutor I work for goes court 3 days a week, and each court day he spends, depending, 3-6 hours in court (rough approximation).

And even when you are not in court, it's not like you are sitting behind a desk, doing busy work. You are coming up with plea deals that will determine peoples lives for the next 1, 5 or 20 years. Then of course, you have to get the lawyer and defendant to agree with the plea deals.

Is being a criminal prosecutor like law and order? No. And if you didn't do the research before you came to law school, that's you're own fault. But its still a job that requires oral advocacy, and one where you constantly hold other people's future in you hands. Hardly a boring ol' desk job.

--> 2L currently interning with prosecutor's office.

Never even seen the show, and I'm definitely not an idealist as to what prosecution work is. If anything, I have a rather cynical view about how stimulating the job is.

Based on your experience in this area, would you say that if someone interns at a DA's office, they stand a very good chance at getting an offer after passing the bar (assuming, of course, you don't screw up the internship)?

[gdane]

I feel you brother. I had second thoughts after my second day. I've come to really dislike law school. I, like you, don't like sitting around and reading from a book for hours every day.

However, we've already made it this far. Work hard, see how you do after your first year and go from there.

Good luck!

[seatown12]

I was thinking about maybe the police academy. Doing something hands-on seems a lot more interesting than sitting behind a desk all day. There's obviously nothing wrong with desk work, but I just don't know if I personally could do that for the next 40 years.

Police work has its advantages. Rightly or wrongly, I think you will see more and more that the private sector will become less and less lucrative and will have less job security. Government jobs, on the other hand, will go in the opposite direction and will be highly sought after.

You have no idea what you're talking about but you're already super committed to your conclusions; you probably should just go be a cop.

[northwood]

I feel you brother. I had second thoughts after my second day. I've come to really dislike law school. I, like you, don't like sitting around and reading from a book for hours every day.

However, we've already made it this far. Work hard, see how you do after your first year and go from there.

Good luck!

so you ended up going to American?

[thrillerjesus]

Yes, it is. In any profession, being successful requires either a certain amount of hard work or a certain amount of random good luck. You can't rely on luck, and hard work is infinitely harder when you don't love what you're doing. If you don't love this, it's probably not going to be worth it no matter how much money you end up making.

Are you f-ing high on some sort of hippy, hollywood, feeling-good movies?

Nope, just someone who was pulling in mid 6 figures in a job I hated pre-law school. Trust me, the money doesn't help if you hate what you're spending most of your time doing. Also, you're a fucking child if you don't think hard work is required for success in almost every endeavor.

[target]

Yes, it is. In any profession, being successful requires either a certain amount of hard work or a certain amount of random good luck. You can't rely on luck, and hard work is infinitely harder when you don't love what you're doing. If you don't love this, it's probably not going to be worth it no matter how much money you end up making.

Are you f-ing high on some sort of hippy, hollywood, feeling-good movies?

Nope, just someone who was pulling in mid 6 figures in a job I hated pre-law school. Trust me, the money doesn't help if you hate what you're spending most of your time doing. Also, you're a fucking child if you don't think hard work is required for success in almost every endeavor.

Let me get this straight. You go back to school from a 6 figures job, so that you can have a chance to get to another 6 figure job, and in case you fail, you can still go back to your first 6 figures job. Damn, I can see the sacrifice you made. I do believe hard work is necessary for success, but to think that pure love of a job is the only motivation to hard work is as unrealistic as it is.

[Nicholasnickynic]

You might only argue in front of a jury about 5% of the time.. But I'd say being in court is more like 30%. In addition to trying cases, you are often in court for other reasons- you often argue in front of the judge regarding, say revocation of probation, or a motion to suppress evidence in a dui case etc..

The prosecutor I work for goes court 3 days a week, and each court day he spends, depending, 3-6 hours in court (rough approximation).

And even when you are not in court, it's not like you are sitting behind a desk, doing busy work. You are coming up with plea deals that will determine peoples lives for the next 1, 5 or 20 years. Then of course, you have to get the lawyer and defendant to agree with the plea deals.

Is being a criminal prosecutor like law and order? No. And if you didn't do the research before you came to law school, that's you're own fault. But its still a job that requires oral advocacy, and one where you constantly hold other people's future in you hands. Hardly a boring ol' desk job.

--> 2L currently interning with prosecutor's office.

Never even seen the show, and I'm definitely not an idealist as to what prosecution work is. If anything, I have a rather cynical view about how stimulating the job is.

Based on your experience in this area, would you say that if someone interns at a DA's office, they stand a very good chance at getting an offer after passing the bar (assuming, of course, you don't screw up the internship)?

DEPENDS:

1. If you are in a big city-New York, Chicago, Boston, LA---> I have no idea, but I think it would be harder than that. If you were in a good school in that area it would help.

2. If you are in a good school in a less desirable area (William and Mary in Va, UNC in NC, Ohio State in Ohio)--> I would say you stand a pretty good chance. States always need prosecutors, and if you are at one of the best schools in the area and you show you have relevant interest/experience, I'd say its worth a shot.


My opinion: If you say go to Drexel, and you want to work in philly...good luck going up against ivy league grads and strong low-t1/high t2 competition.

If you go to William and Mary and you want to work in say, Norfolk or Va Beach or Newport news... I'd imagine you'd be a lot better off.

Keep in mind that I have not been hired yet... still a 2L... but these would seem to be the relevant factors to me, and from people ive talked to IRL and online, these seem to be the relevant job considerations for any law job.

If you want you can PM me with more personal info and I can tell you what I think.

[Nicholasnickynic]

Yes, it is. In any profession, being successful requires either a certain amount of hard work or a certain amount of random good luck. You can't rely on luck, and hard work is infinitely harder when you don't love what you're doing. If you don't love this, it's probably not going to be worth it no matter how much money you end up making.

Are you f-ing high on some sort of hippy, hollywood, feeling-good movies?

Nope, just someone who was pulling in mid 6 figures in a job I hated pre-law school. Trust me, the money doesn't help if you hate what you're spending most of your time doing. Also, you're a fucking child if you don't think hard work is required for success in almost every endeavor.

Let me get this straight. You go back to school from a 6 figures job, so that you can have a chance to get to another 6 figure job, and in case you fail, you can still go back to your first 6 figures job. Damn, I can see the sacrifice you made. I do believe hard work is necessary for success, but to think that pure love of a job is the only motivation to hard work is as unrealistic as it is.

Um, if you quit your old job because making money wasn't enough when you hated what you were doing,

WHY IN THE FUCK are you trying to do big law. I challenge you to find a single person that says they love big law and would do it for half the money.