Legal writing, ethical rules?????

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lawschoolisfun2012
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Legal writing, ethical rules?????

Postby lawschoolisfun2012 » Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:38 pm

....
Last edited by lawschoolisfun2012 on Sun Nov 25, 2012 3:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

kahechsof
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Re: Legal writing, ethical rules?????

Postby kahechsof » Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:42 pm

That is precisely what it means.
You cannot show it to anyone. You cannot read any of your classmates. You need to do all the writing and editing and proofreading yourself.

dougroberts
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Re: Legal writing, ethical rules?????

Postby dougroberts » Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:48 pm

lawschoolisfun2012 wrote:I would HATE to lose a few points for forgetting a period of something like that. This is just so different from the REAL world where you can collaborate and work together.....


Have you worked in the real world? No associate or partner in a law firm, or any other co-worker, is going to waste time proofreading your work to check for missing periods. When you are given an assignment in the real world, you are expected to find the answer AND write correctly without typographic errors. When attorneys are busy billing $300+/hour, no one has time to proofread for you.

You need to develop the skill of proofreading alone while in school.

target
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Re: Legal writing, ethical rules?????

Postby target » Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:57 pm

Your school is strict. My school allows us to go to the school's writing center for help with proofreading and all that, just not the legal reasoning part.

ETA: but from what you posted, it seems that you need to do everything on your own.

shock259
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Re: Legal writing, ethical rules?????

Postby shock259 » Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:55 pm

My school is the same as the OP's: no contact with anyone. The only exception is the teacher and the TA's, who presumably won't proofread it for you any way. ;)

r6_philly
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Re: Legal writing, ethical rules?????

Postby r6_philly » Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:26 pm

Some of our assignment will explicitly allow us to work in groups. Otherwise/by default every part of the work must be our own.

071816
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Re: Legal writing, ethical rules?????

Postby 071816 » Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:32 pm

shock259 wrote:My school is the same as the OP's: no contact with anyone. The only exception is the teacher and the TA's, who presumably won't proofread it for you any way. ;)


+1

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rayiner
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Re: Legal writing, ethical rules?????

Postby rayiner » Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:54 pm

dougroberts wrote:
lawschoolisfun2012 wrote:I would HATE to lose a few points for forgetting a period of something like that. This is just so different from the REAL world where you can collaborate and work together.....


Have you worked in the real world? No associate or partner in a law firm, or any other co-worker, is going to waste time proofreading your work to check for missing periods. When you are given an assignment in the real world, you are expected to find the answer AND write correctly without typographic errors. When attorneys are busy billing $300+/hour, no one has time to proofread for you.

You need to develop the skill of proofreading alone while in school.


You can send important memos down to word processing for a quick proofread. That's what they're there for.

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NeighborGuy
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Re: Legal writing, ethical rules?????

Postby NeighborGuy » Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:51 pm

My school is the same. I'm pretty sure those rules are the norm.

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leobowski
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Re: Legal writing, ethical rules?????

Postby leobowski » Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:46 am

whitewhine.com

truevines
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Re: Legal writing, ethical rules?????

Postby truevines » Sat Sep 10, 2011 2:33 am

lawschoolisfun2012 wrote:I just started legal writing. I am a 1L. This is what are policy says:

. . . .

Is it just me or this this different from every other class I have taken up until this point? I don't want to plagiarize or cheat or write something that is not my own. Yet, I thought it was okay to have someone read your paper (or part of it), and tell you if you forgot something or spelled something wrong? Or gave you general suggestions? As an engineering undergrad, I did all of my own work. Then after I finished, I would ask other students how their answer compared to mine or why my approach was better/slash worse than theirs. I never copied, I just asked or wrote on a whiteboard how I came to my solution. I even ask Professors for help, and the wrote stuff down for me. WHY IS THIS NOT OKAY?


Because your LRW is graded.

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Heartford
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Re: Legal writing, ethical rules?????

Postby Heartford » Sat Sep 10, 2011 2:58 am

This thread is hilarious.

I have to do my own work???? BUT WAI?????

Tar Baby
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Re: Legal writing, ethical rules?????

Postby Tar Baby » Fri Sep 30, 2011 2:23 pm

chimp wrote:
shock259 wrote:My school is the same as the OP's: no contact with anyone. The only exception is the teacher and the TA's, who presumably won't proofread it for you any way. ;)


+1

+1... Get the hell out of here.... Posts like this garbage the message board and should be sanctioned. Same as with those morons who post smiley faces.

Provide substance or do not post.

03121202698008
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Re: Legal writing, ethical rules?????

Postby 03121202698008 » Fri Sep 30, 2011 2:26 pm

r6_philly wrote:Some of our assignment will explicitly allow us to work in groups. Otherwise/by default every part of the work must be our own.


This. The prof wants to know what you're capable of. Not someone else editing it after you.

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Nicholasnickynic
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Re: Legal writing, ethical rules?????

Postby Nicholasnickynic » Fri Sep 30, 2011 2:34 pm

Heartford wrote:This thread is hilarious.

I have to do my own work???? BUT WAI?????

:lol:

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vanwinkle
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Re: Legal writing, ethical rules?????

Postby vanwinkle » Fri Sep 30, 2011 3:01 pm

Tar Baby wrote:Get the hell out of here.... Posts like this garbage the message board and should be sanctioned. Same as with those morons who post smiley faces.

Provide substance or do not post.

Sorry, you don't decide who should GTFO. We do.

Banned for garbage posting without substance. (And the username didn't help.)

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nygrrrl
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Re: Legal writing, ethical rules?????

Postby nygrrrl » Fri Sep 30, 2011 3:03 pm

chimp wrote:
shock259 wrote:My school is the same as the OP's: no contact with anyone. The only exception is the teacher and the TA's, who presumably won't proofread it for you any way. ;)


+1

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vanwinkle
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Re: Legal writing, ethical rules?????

Postby vanwinkle » Fri Sep 30, 2011 3:11 pm

lawschoolisfun2012 wrote:Is it just me or this this different from every other class I have taken up until this point? I don't want to plagiarize or cheat or write something that is not my own. Yet, I thought it was okay to have someone read your paper (or part of it), and tell you if you forgot something or spelled something wrong? Or gave you general suggestions?

It probably was okay in other classes. Law school isn't exactly like undergrad or other programs. If you did your research before enrolling, I'm pretty sure you stumbled across this fact by now.

lawschoolisfun2012 wrote:As an engineering undergrad, I did all of my own work. Then after I finished, I would ask other students how their answer compared to mine or why my approach was better/slash worse than theirs. I never copied, I just asked or wrote on a whiteboard how I came to my solution. I even ask Professors for help, and the wrote stuff down for me.

That's great. But as an engineer, your writing ability probably wasn't the focus of the class. You were writing about engineering, I imagine, and the prof cared about your engineering knowledge more than that technical correctness of your writing style. Besides that, it was an undergrad class, so they weren't being so strict about it. Graduate programs are known to be harder than undergrad programs. If you're expecting law school to be like undergrad, you've made a mistake.

Besides, "Legal Research and Writing" doesn't just mean legal research and writing about it. It means learning how to do legal research and learning how to do legal writing. Part of what you're supposed to be learning is how to write, and edit, your own work in a particular style. If your classmates are editing your papers for you, then you're not really being graded on your own legal writing ability, are you?

lawschoolisfun2012 wrote:WHY IS THIS NOT OKAY?

Because they said so. Welcome to the rule of law.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Legal writing, ethical rules?????

Postby vanwinkle » Fri Sep 30, 2011 3:17 pm

Also, please don't end up like this guy. He was an engineer.

http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/ ... his_super/

random5483
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Re: Legal writing, ethical rules?????

Postby random5483 » Sat Oct 01, 2011 2:42 am

We were allowed to discuss all ungraded (pass/fail) memos with classmates. Our single graded memos each semester had to be wholly our work. Without such a restriction, people with good legal writers in their family (or friends) would be at a significant advantage. Where exactly do you draw the line between simple grammatical errors and pointing out weaknesses in the arguments?


The restrictions placed by most law schools for the LRW classes helps even the playing field. Granted, no system is perfect and some students will get outside help.

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Lawquacious
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Re: Legal writing, ethical rules?????

Postby Lawquacious » Sat Oct 01, 2011 3:50 am

It may be stupid fing bs, that in fact almost noone follows (e.g. not discussing certain materials), but try to follow it, or at least have plausible deniability. HTH brosenheimer

Renzo
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Re: Legal writing, ethical rules?????

Postby Renzo » Sun Oct 02, 2011 4:00 pm

lawschoolisfun2012 wrote:
Can I let someone NOT in my class proofread? I would HATE to lose a few points for forgetting a period of something like that. This is just so different from the REAL world where you can collaborate and work together.....


Actually, in the real world, you alone are going to type lots of emails to your boss describing the results of a conference call or some legal research; and if you make a typo or miss a period it will make you--and only you--look bad. You really aren't going to pass that email around the office so that your coworkers can make sure you don't look careless. That's what they are trying to get you to practice--being very careful with your proofreading so that you don't "miss points," either in school or real life.

CanuckObserver
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Re: Legal writing, ethical rules?????

Postby CanuckObserver » Tue Oct 04, 2011 3:16 pm

rayiner wrote:
You can send important memos down to word processing for a quick proofread. That's what they're there for.


Not everyone will be working somewhere where they can just "send important memos down to word processing for a quick proofread". Many people will find themselves wholly responsible for the end product.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Legal writing, ethical rules?????

Postby vanwinkle » Tue Oct 04, 2011 3:31 pm

Renzo wrote:Actually, in the real world, you alone are going to type lots of emails to your boss describing the results of a conference call or some legal research; and if you make a typo or miss a period it will make you--and only you--look bad. You really aren't going to pass that email around the office so that your coworkers can make sure you don't look careless. That's what they are trying to get you to practice--being very careful with your proofreading so that you don't "miss points," either in school or real life.

This. OP is basically asking how to get around learning what he's being taught.

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Wahoo1L
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Re: Legal writing, ethical rules?????

Postby Wahoo1L » Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:26 pm

dougroberts wrote:
lawschoolisfun2012 wrote:I would HATE to lose a few points for forgetting a period of something like that. This is just so different from the REAL world where you can collaborate and work together.....


Have you worked in the real world? No associate or partner in a law firm, or any other co-worker, is going to waste time proofreading your work to check for missing periods. When you are given an assignment in the real world, you are expected to find the answer AND write correctly without typographic errors. When attorneys are busy billing $300+/hour, no one has time to proofread for you.

You need to develop the skill of proofreading alone while in school.


Paralegals will check Blue Book citations and pincites. Word Processing will check for typos. Some people even have their administrative assistant check for small errors.




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