Trespass to Chattels/Conversion

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nodummy
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Trespass to Chattels/Conversion

Postby nodummy » Sun Sep 04, 2011 9:03 pm

Can anyone tell me the difference between these two in a way that's very simple, easy to understand?

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hous
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Re: Trespass to Chattels/Conversion

Postby hous » Sun Sep 04, 2011 9:39 pm

nodummy wrote:Can anyone tell me the difference between these two in a way that's very simple, easy to understand?


Disclaimer, Im a 1L and havent read the chapter on Conversion yet, lol.

Chattels is when someone interferes with your right to enjoy your personal property to the point where the court can remedy the property owner for the time you lost possession of the property, but the property owner gets to keep the goods.

Conversion is like the same thing, but you get the full value of the property in exchange for the rights to the property.

Both are intentional.

dont rely on this though, just my preliminary understanding.

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I.P. Daly
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Re: Trespass to Chattels/Conversion

Postby I.P. Daly » Sun Sep 04, 2011 9:49 pm

Act and Damages. The longer the withholding period and the more extensive the use, the more likely it's conversion.

Trespass to Chattels
Act
Interference w/p’s right of possession.

Damages
Actual damages from harm to chattel or loss of use.
----------------------------------------------------
Conversion
Act
Interference w/p’s right of possession so serious as to warrant that d pay chattel’s full value.

Damages
Fair market value of chattel at time of conversion.

An example of trespass would be where a tortfeasor steals a car for one hour and returns it in the same condition that he found it. He's merely interfering with p's right of possession.

Conversion would be where a tortfeasor steals a car, gets into a high speed chase and totals the car.

TheFactor
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Re: Trespass to Chattels/Conversion

Postby TheFactor » Sun Sep 04, 2011 10:11 pm

hous wrote:
nodummy wrote:Can anyone tell me the difference between these two in a way that's very simple, easy to understand?


Disclaimer, Im a 1L and havent read the chapter on Conversion yet, lol.

Chattels is when someone interferes with your right to enjoy your personal property to the point where the court can remedy the property owner for the time you lost possession of the property, but the property owner gets to keep the goods.

Conversion is like the same thing, but you get the full value of the property in exchange for the rights to the property.

Both are intentional.

dont rely on this though, just my preliminary understanding.

A chattel IS the personal property in question, bro. Don't give advice if you don't have idea what you're talking about.

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YourCaptain
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Re: Trespass to Chattels/Conversion

Postby YourCaptain » Sun Sep 04, 2011 10:22 pm

Trespass is interference/disruption with right to possess/enjoy.

Conversion is a "forced sale;" the owner can't get their property back.

nodummy
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Re: Trespass to Chattels/Conversion

Postby nodummy » Sun Sep 04, 2011 10:34 pm

YourCaptain wrote:Trespass is interference/disruption with right to possess/enjoy.

Conversion is a "forced sale;" the owner can't get their property back.


Nice and clear, exactly what I was looking for. Thanks. Can someone verify this is correct?

(Just in case it's another dude giving incorrect info...)

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YourCaptain
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Re: Trespass to Chattels/Conversion

Postby YourCaptain » Sun Sep 04, 2011 10:42 pm

I wasn't being 100% accurate - see the example above about the car being totaled. When something is "converted" it no longer has any use.

So if I grab your lunch bag from your hand and eat the contents, there might be remains - an apple core, sandwich bags, empty juice box, etc - this stuff still has some extremely minimal value, so you can still "get it back" but because it's not functionally worth anything (your car totaled isn't worth anything from an economics standpoint) its value has been consumed and so you receive full value for its conversion.

nodummy
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Re: Trespass to Chattels/Conversion

Postby nodummy » Sun Sep 04, 2011 10:46 pm

YourCaptain wrote:I wasn't being 100% accurate - see the example above about the car being totaled. When something is "converted" it no longer has any use.

So if I grab your lunch bag from your hand and eat the contents, there might be remains - an apple core, sandwich bags, empty juice box, etc - this stuff still has some extremely minimal value, so you can still "get it back" but because it's not functionally worth anything (your car totaled isn't worth anything from an economics standpoint) its value has been consumed and so you receive full value for its conversion.


What about scrap metal? Compared to an apple core it seems like there would be some value, however minimal.

Anyhow, I see your point and appreciate the help.

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YourCaptain
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Re: Trespass to Chattels/Conversion

Postby YourCaptain » Sun Sep 04, 2011 10:47 pm

nodummy wrote:
YourCaptain wrote:I wasn't being 100% accurate - see the example above about the car being totaled. When something is "converted" it no longer has any use.

So if I grab your lunch bag from your hand and eat the contents, there might be remains - an apple core, sandwich bags, empty juice box, etc - this stuff still has some extremely minimal value, so you can still "get it back" but because it's not functionally worth anything (your car totaled isn't worth anything from an economics standpoint) its value has been consumed and so you receive full value for its conversion.


What about scrap metal? Compared to an apple core it seems like there would be some value, however minimal.

Anyhow, I see your point and appreciate the help.


Subtle Where-do-we-draw-the-line-trolling

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I.P. Daly
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Re: Trespass to Chattels/Conversion

Postby I.P. Daly » Sun Sep 04, 2011 11:09 pm

nodummy wrote:
What about scrap metal? Compared to an apple core it seems like there would be some value, however minimal.

Anyhow, I see your point and appreciate the help.


The difference is the degree of possession the interfering person has assumed.

This is where you'd apply your set of facts to the elements of the cause of action for trespass and conversion.

Here, the tortfeasor's act of stealing and wrecking the car amounts to interference with the plaintiff's right of possession of the car that is so serious as to warrant that the tortfeasor pay the market value of the car.

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hous
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Re: Trespass to Chattels/Conversion

Postby hous » Sun Sep 04, 2011 11:31 pm

TheFactor wrote:
hous wrote:
nodummy wrote:Can anyone tell me the difference between these two in a way that's very simple, easy to understand?


Disclaimer, Im a 1L and havent read the chapter on Conversion yet, lol.

Chattels is when someone interferes with your right to enjoy your personal property to the point where the court can remedy the property owner for the time you lost possession of the property, but the property owner gets to keep the goods.

Conversion is like the same thing, but you get the full value of the property in exchange for the rights to the property.

Both are intentional.

dont rely on this though, just my preliminary understanding.

A chattel IS the personal property in question, bro. Don't give advice if you don't have idea what you're talking about.


Hence the disclaimer in my message, and duh. He wasnt asking what a chattel is, he wanted to know the difference between TC and Conversion. I.P. sumed it up nicely, thanks!

random5483
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Re: Trespass to Chattels/Conversion

Postby random5483 » Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:47 am

A trespass to chattel may be committed by: 1) Dispossessing another of the chattel, or 2) Using or intermeddling with a chattel in the possession of another (RT 217).

Conversion is an intentional exercise of dominion or control over a chattel which so seriously interferes with the right of another to control it that the actor may justly be required to pay the other the full value of the chattel (RT 222A).


Remedy:

Conversion - Provides remedy for permanent interference with, or damage to personal property. Liable for the full value of the property

Trespass to Chattels - Provides remedy for temporary interference with, or damage to personal property. Liable for the diminished value of the property.


Both are intentional torts. Copy/pasted some relevant info from outline.




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