First Week of Law School

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Heartford
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Re: First Week of Law School

Postby Heartford » Mon Sep 05, 2011 8:31 pm

delusional wrote:
Heartford wrote:
delusional wrote:I'm still deathly afraid that someone will answer something I didn't know. Or worse, I'll get called on for something and not know it.


Why? Seriously. Why would this make you "deathly" afraid? It wouldn't matter at all if either situation happened.

The truth is I was being intentionally over the top. But I really do think that it's been pretty hard to start with - I read/briefed about six hours between yesterday and today and I am annoyed because I thought it would get me further than tomorrow's classes. And to make it worse, I don't think it's possible to have an idea what the professor wants us to know from the reading. Sometimes I read something super carefully and make copious notes, and he'll just skip right over it, other times I'll skim something and he'll care only about the tiniest details of that. So after all that work - and even after class, it's not like I even feel like I necessarily know what I'm supposed to.


You don't need to know what you're supposed to do ahead of time- the key to the exam is to focus upon what the professor focuses upon in class. So who cares if you weren't prepared to discuss the obscure paragraph before the case? As long as you absorb the importance of what the professor is saying, and note that you should review it before you take the exam, you're fine.

Stop worrying about what you should learn before class. Class is supposed to be for learning, not a showcase for people who already know everything. Learn stuff, apply it to the exam, get high grades.

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northwood
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Re: First Week of Law School

Postby northwood » Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:54 pm

learn what your professor has a tendency to focus on in class. and try to focus on it when you read/ brief. IF you dont understand a concept go to office hours or look in a supplement. Try to hone in on what each professor stresses, and focus on the rules, exceptions and big ideas. You dont need to be a wizard for class, you need to be a wizard on the exam. And dont forget- knowing what your professor likes/ doesnt like is something to condsider when you write the exam.

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arvcondor
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Re: First Week of Law School

Postby arvcondor » Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:55 pm

FeelTheHeat wrote:
TheFactor wrote:
agathos wrote:I read nearly 8 hours per day.. I think I am going to be crazy..

you're doing it wrong

Good God, TITCR. All of you are needlessly giving yourself heart disease.

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JusticeHarlan
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Re: First Week of Law School

Postby JusticeHarlan » Tue Sep 06, 2011 9:39 pm

BlueDiamond wrote:but of course a directly analogous example as the cases wont show up on the exam

Depends on the professor. You'd be surprised how often you do get issues that are very similar to cases.

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kalvano
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Re: First Week of Law School

Postby kalvano » Tue Sep 06, 2011 9:54 pm

A lot of my profs pulled MC and short answer questions directly from cases we read. Changed names but same facts, etc.

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JCougar
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Re: First Week of Law School

Postby JCougar » Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:25 pm

I think a lot of professors also create fact patterns analogous to those found in the E&Es. Of course, everybody in your class will be reading the E&E, which makes the exam material all the more easier, which in turn makes the curve turn on all the more ridiculous factors...

jarofsoup
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Re: First Week of Law School

Postby jarofsoup » Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:22 pm

When do you folks start outlining?

agathos
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Re: First Week of Law School

Postby agathos » Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:32 pm

arvcondor wrote:
FeelTheHeat wrote:
TheFactor wrote:
agathos wrote:I read nearly 8 hours per day.. I think I am going to be crazy..

you're doing it wrong

Good God, TITCR. All of you are needlessly giving yourself heart disease.

how many page you can read per hour... I just read very slow..nearly only 10-15page at most...I am worried about that..

agathos
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Re: First Week of Law School

Postby agathos » Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:32 pm

jarofsoup wrote:
FeelTheHeat wrote:
TheFactor wrote:
agathos wrote:I read nearly 8 hours per day.. I think I am going to be crazy..

you're doing it wrong



I read/brief sometimes at 8 hours a day, but a lot of the times I am reading ahead because I do not want to do this crap the night before. Like right now I am working on reading for next week. But that is just my style.

you scare me ...

jarofsoup
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Re: First Week of Law School

Postby jarofsoup » Sat Sep 10, 2011 2:07 pm

Started using circus ponies it is making a freaking world of difference so much better than just using word.


I am a bit of a workaholic, but at least I am not a gunner. My god I had no Idea how annoying those people were. Why argue with the professor on every little thing?

td6624
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Re: First Week of Law School

Postby td6624 » Sat Sep 10, 2011 4:00 pm

agathos wrote:how many page you can read per hour... I just read very slow..nearly only 10-15page at most...I am worried about that..


you're probably gonna wanna pick up the pace on that

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northwood
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Re: First Week of Law School

Postby northwood » Sat Sep 10, 2011 4:26 pm

10-15 pages with or without taking notes??

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mths
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Re: First Week of Law School

Postby mths » Sat Sep 10, 2011 4:33 pm

arvcondor wrote:
FeelTheHeat wrote:
TheFactor wrote:
agathos wrote:I read nearly 8 hours per day.. I think I am going to be crazy..

you're doing it wrong

Good God, TITCR. All of you are needlessly giving yourself heart disease.

Seriously. I am in the process of taking a 4 day weekend. I might do some reading tomorrow.

2L don't care

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TheFutureLawyer
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Re: First Week of Law School

Postby TheFutureLawyer » Sat Sep 10, 2011 4:48 pm

Reading some of this thread, I wonder if I'm missing something. So far (about to start week 4) it's taken me about an hour of reading per class, meaning I spend like 2.5-3 hrs of reading a day, on average (with an average of 3 classes a day). This includes taking notes (which I often do by just copying stuff from online, which is usually summarized better than I would have done and helps me to understand the main point of the cases better). Then if there's a point that the professor emphasizes about the case that isn't in my notes I just type that up (along with all the other important stuff they say, whether or not I already understand it and have it down).

Is this not gunner enough or something?

shoeshine
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Re: First Week of Law School

Postby shoeshine » Sat Sep 10, 2011 4:57 pm

TheFutureLawyer wrote:(which I often do by just copying stuff from online, which is usually summarized better than I would have done and helps me to understand the main point of the cases better)


This is a bad idea for several reasons.

1. Reading the cases and pulling out the issues and holding from the opinion (and sometimes being wrong) seems to be a very important part of the learning process.

2. The cases can have very different contexts in different classes with different professors. For instance, the brief you find online for Pennzoil v. Texaco may be from a torts class and it will only look at the issues involving intentional interference with a contract. However, you may be reading the case for contracts and are only going to look at how the court defined the parties outward expression of an intent to be bound by a contract.

target
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Re: First Week of Law School

Postby target » Sat Sep 10, 2011 5:06 pm

TheFutureLawyer wrote:Reading some of this thread, I wonder if I'm missing something. So far (about to start week 4) it's taken me about an hour of reading per class, meaning I spend like 2.5-3 hrs of reading a day, on average (with an average of 3 classes a day). This includes taking notes (which I often do by just copying stuff from online, which is usually summarized better than I would have done and helps me to understand the main point of the cases better). Then if there's a point that the professor emphasizes about the case that isn't in my notes I just type that up (along with all the other important stuff they say, whether or not I already understand it and have it down).

Is this not gunner enough or something?


Your question is ungunnerish. For being a gunner, one should never doubt of his status or qualifications as a gunner. Gunner Code.

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TheFutureLawyer
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Re: First Week of Law School

Postby TheFutureLawyer » Sat Sep 10, 2011 5:07 pm

shoeshine wrote:
TheFutureLawyer wrote:(which I often do by just copying stuff from online, which is usually summarized better than I would have done and helps me to understand the main point of the cases better)


This is a bad idea for several reasons.

1. Reading the cases and pulling out the issues and holding from the opinion (and sometimes being wrong) seems to be a very important part of the learning process.

2. The cases can have very different contexts in different classes with different professors. For instance, the brief you find online for Pennzoil v. Texaco may be from a torts class and it will only look at the issues involving intentional interference with a contract. However, you may be reading the case for contracts and are only going to look at how the court defined the parties outward expression of an intent to be bound by a contract.


As to 1, that's what they told as at orientation, but I'm not sure how important that is. I know how to read a case and make my own brief, but I'm not sure how important it is to do that 10 times a day. If someone thinks I'm just being a lazy idiot, let me know.

As to 2, so far, there's only been one or two cases (out of the hundred or so we've read by now (though some are edited down to a single paragraph)) where the main point that the professor made about the case was barely mentioned in the online summary. In that case, all I have to do is take notes and maybe go ahead and re-read the case and make my own brief for that case. Doing this probably saves me an amazing amount of time over writing my own brief for every case (and I bet if I wrote my own brief I'd still have the same problem of not getting the main point every once in a while). Again, maybe I'm just a lazy idiot who'll regret all this come finals, but I don't think so.

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Redzo
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Re: First Week of Law School

Postby Redzo » Sat Sep 10, 2011 6:57 pm

TFL:

I am doing basically the same thing as you. I read the cases, but I barely take notes (just notes in the margins to help me locate key passages in the text) and I use briefs that I find online as a refresher for class discussion. Then, in another column I note anything important that the professor says.

I don't think I'm missing out on any learning by not briefing the case. I feel like I'm understanding what each case is about and why we are learning about it.

As to shoeshine's point #2, that has never been a problem for me because most websites organize briefs by subject.

TheFactor
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Re: First Week of Law School

Postby TheFactor » Sun Sep 11, 2011 10:30 am

Redzo wrote:TFL:

I am doing basically the same thing as you. I read the cases, but I barely take notes (just notes in the margins to help me locate key passages in the text) and I use briefs that I find online as a refresher for class discussion. Then, in another column I note anything important that the professor says.

I don't think I'm missing out on any learning by not briefing the case. I feel like I'm understanding what each case is about and why we are learning about it.

As to shoeshine's point #2, that has never been a problem for me because most websites organize briefs by subject.

+1 to all of this

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northwood
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Re: First Week of Law School

Postby northwood » Sun Sep 11, 2011 12:22 pm

jarofsoup wrote:When do you folks start outlining?

jarofsoup
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Re: First Week of Law School

Postby jarofsoup » Sun Sep 11, 2011 3:14 pm

TheFactor wrote:
Redzo wrote:TFL:

I am doing basically the same thing as you. I read the cases, but I barely take notes (just notes in the margins to help me locate key passages in the text) and I use briefs that I find online as a refresher for class discussion. Then, in another column I note anything important that the professor says.

I don't think I'm missing out on any learning by not briefing the case. I feel like I'm understanding what each case is about and why we are learning about it.

As to shoeshine's point #2, that has never been a problem for me because most websites organize briefs by subject.

+1 to all of this



I do not think there is a magic bullet. It is individual work/learning style. I brief every case because I am a bit neurotic about it right now, but I think book briefing will soon take over and basic issue/holding briefs will be the norm eventually. Especially in Civ pro when the cases are 15 pages long and sometime have multiple concurring opinions.

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Redzo
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Re: First Week of Law School

Postby Redzo » Sun Sep 11, 2011 3:35 pm

I won't lie, it is really tempting sometimes to obsess about the minor details of the cases in my Civ Pro class, because the teacher really brings the background of each case and the lore surrounding them to life. But, I have to remind myself that I don't need to know most of that.

shoeshine
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Re: First Week of Law School

Postby shoeshine » Sun Sep 11, 2011 3:56 pm

Redzo wrote:I won't lie, it is really tempting sometimes to obsess about the minor details of the cases in my Civ Pro class, because the teacher really brings the background of each case and the lore surrounding them to life. But, I have to remind myself that I don't need to know most of that.

I have this theory about that. It isn't that you don't need to know those things, it is that you don't need to remember those things. Everyone on this site seems to take the advice of past 1Ls and 2Ls who point out that you don't need to know any of the minutia of the cases for the test. I am sure this is true but that doesn't mean that learning it isn't still an important part of the process. Examining the language and logic that judges use in their opinions helps you become a better writer and will ultimately help you write your exams better. In my opinion everyone who does not at least thoroughly read and examine every part of the cases is doing themselves a huge disservice, especially this early in the semester. If it was between doing a practice test or reading a case in November I can see how an online brief or just skimming the opinion might be a better option but I don't think you have an excuse in September.

All of this is just IMHO.

wallawhite1987
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Re: First Week of Law School

Postby wallawhite1987 » Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:04 pm

TheFactor wrote:
Redzo wrote:TFL:

I am doing basically the same thing as you. I read the cases, but I barely take notes (just notes in the margins to help me locate key passages in the text) and I use briefs that I find online as a refresher for class discussion. Then, in another column I note anything important that the professor says.

I don't think I'm missing out on any learning by not briefing the case. I feel like I'm understanding what each case is about and why we are learning about it.

As to shoeshine's point #2, that has never been a problem for me because most websites organize briefs by subject.

+1 to all of this


I hear a lot of people saying this, but how in world do you create an outline? I mean you won't have any book notes, so are you just planning on including what the professor says in your outline?

TheFactor
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Re: First Week of Law School

Postby TheFactor » Sun Sep 11, 2011 5:12 pm

wallawhite1987 wrote:
TheFactor wrote:
Redzo wrote:TFL:

I am doing basically the same thing as you. I read the cases, but I barely take notes (just notes in the margins to help me locate key passages in the text) and I use briefs that I find online as a refresher for class discussion. Then, in another column I note anything important that the professor says.

I don't think I'm missing out on any learning by not briefing the case. I feel like I'm understanding what each case is about and why we are learning about it.

As to shoeshine's point #2, that has never been a problem for me because most websites organize briefs by subject.

+1 to all of this


I hear a lot of people saying this, but how in world do you create an outline? I mean you won't have any book notes, so are you just planning on including what the professor says in your outline?

It's pretty easy to pick out the rule/holding and its application to fact w/out briefing every case yourself.




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