Michigan 3L taking Questions

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vyelps
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Michigan 3L taking Questions

Postby vyelps » Tue Aug 23, 2011 8:09 pm

Happy to discuss 1L anxieties, journals, OCI, whatever else.

UML
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Re: Michigan 3L taking Questions

Postby UML » Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:10 pm

Hi:

Are you familiar with any of these professors:

Miller - Property
Horwitz - Torts
Cooper - Civ Pro
Falon - LW

If so, any tips? I'm trying to determine which supplements/hornbooks will be the most useful.

goodolgil
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Re: Michigan 3L taking Questions

Postby goodolgil » Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:59 pm

UML wrote:Hi:

Are you familiar with any of these professors:

Miller - Property
Horwitz - Torts
Cooper - Civ Pro
Falon - LW

If so, any tips? I'm trying to determine which supplements/hornbooks will be the most useful.


I'm a 2L but I can help out with that. I had Horwitz and Falon. Horwitz teaches a pretty standard torts class, slight law & economic bent, but nothing extreme. She is extremely nice and her cold calls are easy. Her final is standard and there will be no real surprises on it (and she has a ton of practice exams online).

Falon is hands down the best legal practice professor at UM. He is also probably the hardest, but it is worth it and he always places a disproportionate amount of his students onto law review (happened again this year). Don't freak out when he rips your first memo apart, it will get easier after that (for instance I went from one of the worst closed memos to one of the best open memos).

Haven't had the other two but I've heard that Cooper is incredibly boring (though he's a giant in the field of Civ Pro) and that Miller is awesome. Look into the books that Miller has written, very unlike what probably any other law professor has written.

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NZA
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Re: Michigan 3L taking Questions

Postby NZA » Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:02 am

Hmm...I guess as long as we're discussing profs, any word on Bagley, Uhlmann, and Nadin?

GMVarun
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Re: Michigan 3L taking Questions

Postby GMVarun » Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:13 am

UML wrote:Miller - Property


Another 2L here but I had Miller last semester, so I will share. Miller was one of my favorite 1L profs but it took me a while to get used to his teaching style. I think what worked for me was treating the class like any other: reading a supplement (I liked both Understanding Property but everyone liked the Krier Property outline supplement), keeping an outline going, doing practice problems. Towards the end, I did a lot of practice multiple choice questions and then formulated a plan to combat his unusual take-home problem. Miller is awesome, though, so hopefully you enjoy his class.

UML
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Re: Michigan 3L taking Questions

Postby UML » Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:59 am

GMVarun wrote:his unusual take-home problem


Please expand.

UML
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Re: Michigan 3L taking Questions

Postby UML » Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:14 pm

GMVarun wrote:
UML wrote:Miller - Property


Another 2L here but I had Miller last semester, so I will share. Miller was one of my favorite 1L profs but it took me a while to get used to his teaching style. I think what worked for me was treating the class like any other: reading a supplement (I liked both Understanding Property but everyone liked the Krier Property outline supplement), keeping an outline going, doing practice problems. Towards the end, I did a lot of practice multiple choice questions and then formulated a plan to combat his unusual take-home problem. Miller is awesome, though, so hopefully you enjoy his class.


Can you describe the take home exam? How long did you have it? Any special preparation for classes with take home exams?

Thanks so much

GMVarun
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Re: Michigan 3L taking Questions

Postby GMVarun » Wed Aug 24, 2011 3:51 pm

UML wrote:
GMVarun wrote:
UML wrote:Miller - Property


Another 2L here but I had Miller last semester, so I will share. Miller was one of my favorite 1L profs but it took me a while to get used to his teaching style. I think what worked for me was treating the class like any other: reading a supplement (I liked both Understanding Property but everyone liked the Krier Property outline supplement), keeping an outline going, doing practice problems. Towards the end, I did a lot of practice multiple choice questions and then formulated a plan to combat his unusual take-home problem. Miller is awesome, though, so hopefully you enjoy his class.


Can you describe the take home exam? How long did you have it? Any special preparation for classes with take home exams?

Thanks so much


We had a 1 hour MC test in the morning (which were typical issue spotter esque, some true false questions) followed by an 8 hour long take home. The take home exam for the last two years has been a case, where the prompt is something like "respond to the case." Basically Miller wants you to analyze the arguments made (good, or more likely really terrible and how so, what should the court have done differently) etc. But this was just my approach, I think you can respond in many different ways and still meet what Miller is looking for. It seemed really daunting at first, but I think if you prepare it for a similar way as you do other classes you will be fine. I think it is also helpful to pay attention to the little clues in class as to how Miller analyzes cases, that is also helpful. I will not say anything more specific about the exam, because Miller has used the same case or exam across multiple years. Talk to him a month into school and he will tell you his thoughts about exams and how to prepare, etc.

MissLucky
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Re: Michigan 3L taking Questions

Postby MissLucky » Thu Aug 25, 2011 11:06 am

GMVarun wrote:
UML wrote:
GMVarun wrote:
UML wrote:Miller - Property


Another 2L here but I had Miller last semester, so I will share. Miller was one of my favorite 1L profs but it took me a while to get used to his teaching style. I think what worked for me was treating the class like any other: reading a supplement (I liked both Understanding Property but everyone liked the Krier Property outline supplement), keeping an outline going, doing practice problems. Towards the end, I did a lot of practice multiple choice questions and then formulated a plan to combat his unusual take-home problem. Miller is awesome, though, so hopefully you enjoy his class.


Can you describe the take home exam? How long did you have it? Any special preparation for classes with take home exams?

Thanks so much


We had a 1 hour MC test in the morning (which were typical issue spotter esque, some true false questions) followed by an 8 hour long take home. The take home exam for the last two years has been a case, where the prompt is something like "respond to the case." Basically Miller wants you to analyze the arguments made (good, or more likely really terrible and how so, what should the court have done differently) etc. But this was just my approach, I think you can respond in many different ways and still meet what Miller is looking for. It seemed really daunting at first, but I think if you prepare it for a similar way as you do other classes you will be fine. I think it is also helpful to pay attention to the little clues in class as to how Miller analyzes cases, that is also helpful. I will not say anything more specific about the exam, because Miller has used the same case or exam across multiple years. Talk to him a month into school and he will tell you his thoughts about exams and how to prepare, etc.


Thanks a lot for the insight - also how did his ban on laptops factor in to your daily prep?

and what is the law review app process at umich? can you grade on or is it a combination of writing/grades?

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Moomoo2u
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Re: Michigan 3L taking Questions

Postby Moomoo2u » Thu Aug 25, 2011 11:09 am

Does mich have a graded legal writing program? How many NY firms do OCI/how does mich perform in the NY Market?

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descartesb4thehorse
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Re: Michigan 3L taking Questions

Postby descartesb4thehorse » Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:33 am

Moomoo2u wrote:Does mich have a graded legal writing program? How many NY firms do OCI/how does mich perform in the NY Market?


bump. all relevant.

logan
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Re: Michigan 3L taking Questions

Postby logan » Sun Aug 28, 2011 10:19 am

descartesb4thehorse wrote:
Moomoo2u wrote:Does mich have a graded legal writing program? How many NY firms do OCI/how does mich perform in the NY Market?


bump. all relevant.


Legal Practice is graded on a modified pass/fail system. Top 20% gets an Honors Pass. It's pretty impossible to fail. This year there were somewhere around 60-65 "NY firms" (either firms based in NY or firms with offices in NY). Historically, Michigan has performed well in the market. There's been a lot of uncertainty the past couple years at every school, and no one really knows how this year's OCI will shake out.

vyelps
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Re: Michigan 3L taking Questions

Postby vyelps » Fri Sep 02, 2011 8:29 am

Hi all,

Sorry I didn't respond to these inquiries sooner.

NZA wrote:Hmm...I guess as long as we're discussing profs, any word on Bagley, Uhlmann, and Nadin?


I'm only familiar with Bagley. He's a new professor at Michigan but he's becoming of a rockstar around here. Everyone who's had him for classes absolutely loves him. I'm not sure how his Civ Pro class will work but he's staggeringly smart and is actually really great at explaining things. I know a lot of students found going to his office hours to be really helpful for his Health Law class. I don't know the other professors well enough to offer advice.

GMVarun wrote:and what is the law review app process at umich? can you grade on or is it a combination of writing/grades?


Its really early to start worrying about the law review process. You don't apply until after your second semester exams. Law review takes into account grades, the writing competition score, and essay responses. The law review website has the specific details. The best thing you can do right now is to try to do your best in all of your classes and to keep improving your writing. Pay particular attention in your Legal Practice class and try to learn the Bluebook citation format since that will be a part of your writing scores.

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lgleye
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Re: Michigan 3L taking Questions

Postby lgleye » Tue Mar 19, 2013 6:48 pm

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Last edited by lgleye on Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

portaprokoss
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Re: Michigan 3L taking Questions

Postby portaprokoss » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:09 pm

Miller - Property

I bombed the multiple choice, but my performance on the essay made up for it. I don't have any advice for the multiple choice. In my opinion, the questions are written so fucking poorly that it's unclear what he's even asking. Somehow a percentage of people do well every year; this is apparently because copies of the exam are floating around and people cheat . . . he even admitted so much to our class: that every year it's brought to his attention that people are cheating. I don't know why he doesn't just write an new exam.

No matter what he says to you, his essay will essentially be "what is property?" Whoever can tie the most cases into their answer wins. Go to the library and get a couple of property hornbooks and look in the introductory chapter and make yourself an outline of the different "theories of property." As you go through the semester, make a note of which cases fit under each theory according to Miller and why it fits under that theory. Bam: there's your exam answer. Easy A.

Horwitz - Torts

Typing content regardless of what she says. Whoever gets the most check marks wins. Get Sum & Substance Audio on Torts [Audio CD] w/ Steven Finz, the 3rd edition. I think you can torrent it, but I just bought it. Also, get case briefs so you do not waste your time reading those cases. Listen to the Finz CD over a weekend and make an outline of all the black letter law. Then spend all your time for the rest of the semester working w/ typing out answers to practice problems form E&E and stuff like that. Her hypos are jam packed with like 10 million little torts, so you're going for quantity, not quality. She just counts check-marks. This is a tight curve. I really think in this class whoever does the most practice problems wins. No curve balls here.

Cooper - Civ Pro

Everybody loves the Friedenthal hornbook but it sucks. Too much information that will bog you down. So throw away the hornbook and your casebook while your at it. Get "Civil Procedure (Law School Legends Audio Series CD)" and also "Sum & Substance Audio on Civil Procedure, 7th Edition (CD) by Arthur R. Miller" and also "
Introduction to Civil Procedure, Third Edition (Aspen Student Treatise Series) by Richard D. Freer." Just listen to these and outline them. Use the E&E as well as cooper's own practice exams. I started listening to the CDs before the class lectures and all the sudden Cooper's lectures were crystal clear.

Falon - LW

Just don't fail. If you get honors in legal writing, your priorities are screwed up. Falon is an awesome guy, but try to minimize the time you spend on his class.


*****

So that's my advice, and I think it's good. It worked for me. For Horwitz and Cooper, eliminate the time you spend in your casebook and replace that time w/ practice problems. Learn from supplements from those two classes because it's more efficient and clearer that way; I can say that cases had ZERO impact on my grades in either of those classes. Just look at past exams for yourself. For Miller it's a toss up; that class is a train wreck. Study for it however you want, but just make sure to make that mini outline that categorizes cases by theory of property, that way you'll have a framework to use when he asks you "what is property?"

portaprokoss
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Re: Michigan 3L taking Questions

Postby portaprokoss » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:13 pm

lgleye wrote:Hi:

I'm a 1L, and finally seeing the ight at the end of the tunnel.........although I know that grades are my #1 focus, I'm starting to think a bit about OCI.
Can someone tell me about the term selectivity, what it means, and how it figures into the ranking/bidding process for OCI? Thanks.



Wait????? Did I just spend my time replying to a 2011 thread that you brought back from the dead? Nice. I'm going to bed.

Edit: I guess it was someone from my original section two years ago that posted the question about miller, cooper, horwitz, and falon. lol

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BuckinghamB
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Re: Michigan 3L taking Questions

Postby BuckinghamB » Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:43 pm

Regarding professor reviews, lawprofguide.com is a pretty good resource. Personally, I had Uhlmann for crim, and it was probably my favorite class of 1L (I say this as someone who has no interest in criminal law). He's very clear with what he wants you to know, genuinely cares about his students, and his exam was very straightforward with no surprises. Cooper is...well, Cooper. You won't learn much if at all from going to lecture. He's a very intelligent man, but he's extremely unclear, unintelligible, and digressive. $.02

Edit: ^^Damnit, I just realized this was necroed. Oh well.




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