Lazy's Guide to Top 10% Without Working Nights or Weekends

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reformed calvinist
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Re: Lazy's Guide to Top 10% Without Working Nights or Weekends

Postby reformed calvinist » Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:05 pm

Lazy wrote:with supplements although you may have the doctrine technically right you may not have learned how to explain it in the way your professor wants to hear it. Although the doctrine fundamentals may be the same, that you spent all this time memorizing some other professor's language for it could be detrimental.


But you don't get the professor's language from the assigned casebook. You get it from class-listening to your professor for variations and emphases is always credited. So, whether you read your casebook or Chemerinsky, as long as you go to class and listen you can pick up the subtleties (your professor explicitly says that one part of a multi-part test isn't important, uses different wording, omits something, etc).

There are also some situations where there is virtually no difference. I was assigned the Dressler casebook and mostly read from the Dressler supplement. My Civ Pro professor co-authored the casebook with Joseph Glannon. Etc.

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birdlaw117
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Re: Lazy's Guide to Top 10% Without Working Nights or Weekends

Postby birdlaw117 » Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:20 pm

Quit shitting all over this thread. Lazy put together a guide that will be helpful to some and less helpful for others. You don't have to come here and try and say that he's wrong. If you want to put together your own guide, have at it. But you're just making this thread less useful for people by trying to argue over shit that doesn't need to be argued. You disagree with Lazy. Cool. We get it.

Lazy
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Re: Lazy's Guide to Top 10% Without Working Nights or Weekends

Postby Lazy » Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:23 pm

reformed calvinist wrote:But you don't get the professor's language from the assigned casebook. You get it from class-listening to your professor for variations and emphases is always credited. So, whether you read your casebook or Chemerinsky, as long as you go to class and listen you can pick up the subtleties (your professor explicitly says that one part of a multi-part test isn't important, uses different wording, omits something, etc).

There are also some situations where there is virtually no difference. I was assigned the Dressler casebook and mostly read from the Dressler supplement. My Civ Pro professor co-authored the casebook with Joseph Glannon. Etc.


It is true that listening and paying attention in class is not advice limited to people who use supplements. That said, I frequently have heard the following during finals season, "Wait, I have XYZ in my notes, but the [insert supplement here] says ABC. Huh. I guess I just didn't get it. *frantic typing while they alter their notes*" This is not something that I've seen happen with people who study solely from the casebook. They take what they had in their class/reading notes and go with it. I think it's easier to fall into the trap of just copying down the supplement's wording than the casebook's.

Beyond that, using the supplement for memorization (since it's pre-made and hopefully is technically correct), rather than one's own class notes, leads to memorization of how the supplement presents information. It doesn't lead to restatement and retention of what your professor said (unless, I suppose, your professor co-authored the supplement).

Apl didn't say "I use the supplement to form the basis of my own notes and then I alter those notes to match my professor." S/he said, "I memorize from the supplement."

Breezin wrote:I don't know why you can't explain Cardozo's approach in your own words.


Using the Court's language (or, if your professor likes it a different way, your professor's) for the R part of your IRAC analysis and then using your own words in A is fine. Using the supplement's language for the R is not the same. If you want to do Court's R and then use the supplement for A, I still think it's a waste of money, but that'd at least make more sense. I just think it's a bad idea to use the supplement language as the R. Use the Court's language or your professor's.

Also, still this:

...I think this discussion is kind of reaching the end of its usefulness.

Dude, you and I are just never going to see the supplement issue the same way. I am never going to use them. Since I think that at best they're useless, and at worst they are detrimental, I am never going to believe that they are necessary.

...I think it a complete waste of time and money even if the supplements were an effective replacement for casebook reading. Why? Because panicked 1Ls, the kind that actually bother to go online and find a guide to help them do well, are generally the type that will do the assigned reading regardless. They don't see it as "either/or", they see it as "both". I firmly believe that if you're already doing the assigned reading, supplements are a complete waste of time and money. Save that extra money for booze.

That said, I am only one person. My opinion is entirely my own. If you want to have a more constructive and potentially useful dialogue about how to best use supplements, I recommend one of the many other guides that address that topic. If you want to teach 0Ls that they can get ahead by reading only supplements, I'm sure that there is call out there for a guide that teaches them how to do so. Go for it. I'm sure there are people who will agree with you, I'm just not one of them.
Last edited by Lazy on Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

apl6783
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Re: Lazy's Guide to Top 10% Without Working Nights or Weekends

Postby apl6783 » Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:24 pm

Well, whatever Lazy. I won't say anything after this, scout's honor. I wanted to get all this in here so 1Ls reading this guide won't just think they can do what you did and do well. Again, I'd guess that you're smarter than most of your class based on your LSAT (confirm/deny?)

You're just flat out wrong, too. It's not a matter of opinion. Your torts professor doesn't want you to speak like a Judge in 1847. He wants you to speak in modern day English. No one talks like John Marshall anymore.

The only thing you've got right was that panicked 1L's won't bail on the casebook and only read supplements. Only a few will go for it. The ones who do place extremely highly in the class.

I don't know anyone, or know of anyone on this forum who went 100% supplements and did bad.

Lazy
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Re: Lazy's Guide to Top 10% Without Working Nights or Weekends

Postby Lazy » Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:34 pm

apl6783 wrote:Well, whatever Lazy. I won't say anything after this, scout's honor. I wanted to get all this in here so 1Ls reading this guide won't just think they can do what you did and do well.


Disagree. Plenty of people do this and do well. It's not just me.

Again, I'd guess that you're smarter than most of your class based on your LSAT (confirm/deny?)


As I believe I said in my OP, I was around the 75th in LSAT - I was also below median in GPA - for whatever those things are worth. Given that the LSAT is a learnable test and isn't actually tied to IQ, I'm not really sure how much it matters. I'm at a T20 and my LSAT is not unusual for my school or its peers. It's certainly not HYSCCN material.

You're just flat out wrong, too. It's not a matter of opinion. Your torts professor doesn't want you to speak like a Judge in 1847. He wants you to speak in modern day English. No one talks like John Marshall anymore.


I'm not saying to write like you're Marshall. I'm saying to use Marshall's language for the rule, not the analysis. Regardless, what a professor wants varies professor by professor. It will always be subjective. There is no "flat out wrong", even where you and I disagree.

The only thing you've got right was that panicked 1L's won't bail on the casebook and only read supplements. Only a few will go for it. The ones who do place extremely highly in the class.

I don't know anyone, or know of anyone on this forum who went 100% supplements and did bad.


You have not read enough threads on this forum if you can't find people who used supplements and did poorly. That said, I don't know anyone who completely bailed on casebooks and used only supplements, so I have no idea how people who did so faired. But that sounds like an awful idea. If you were successful doing that, make a guide and teach your way to others.

God speed.

iii
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Re: Lazy's Guide to Top 10% Without Working Nights or Weekends

Postby iii » Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:47 pm

apl6783 wrote:Well, whatever Lazy. I won't say anything after this, scout's honor. I wanted to get all this in here so 1Ls reading this guide won't just think they can do what you did and do well. Again, I'd guess that you're smarter than most of your class based on your LSAT (confirm/deny?)

You're just flat out wrong, too. It's not a matter of opinion. Your torts professor doesn't want you to speak like a Judge in 1847. He wants you to speak in modern day English. No one talks like John Marshall anymore.

The only thing you've got right was that panicked 1L's won't bail on the casebook and only read supplements. Only a few will go for it. The ones who do place extremely highly in the class.

I don't know anyone, or know of anyone on this forum who went 100% supplements and did bad.


viewtopic.php?f=3&t=176539

JR1988
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Re: Lazy's Guide to Top 10% Without Working Nights or Weekends

Postby JR1988 » Sat Mar 03, 2012 4:00 pm

apl6783 wrote: I wanted to get all this in here so 1Ls reading this guide won't just think they can do what you did and do well.


Ha, that's why I hopped in, also, but so that 1Ls won't make the mistake of depending on supplements.

To be fair, I agree with you partially, in that I think that Lazy's approach gets it wrong because its a little too lazy (for most people). I ranked #2 in my class by using an approach similar to Lazy's (i.e. only using the casebook and prof), but I gunned my ass off (i.e. outlining and memorizing outlines all semester and constantly doing practice problems).

At the end of the day, it all comes down to whatever works for you. There are people that will use all supplements and do well, and there are people that will use all supplements and do horribly. Similarly, there are people that will use all casebook and do well, and there are people that will use all case book and do horribly.

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JCFindley
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Re: Lazy's Guide to Top 10% Without Working Nights or Weekends

Postby JCFindley » Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:59 am

Tag

clint4law
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Re: Lazy's Guide to Top 10% Without Working Nights or Weekends

Postby clint4law » Fri Aug 17, 2012 2:05 am

nice

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06102016
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Re: Lazy's Guide to Top 10% Without Working Nights or Weekends

Postby 06102016 » Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:16 am

..

JohnMarshall17
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Re: Lazy's Guide to Top 10% Without Working Nights or Weekends

Postby JohnMarshall17 » Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:18 pm

tag

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20130312
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Re: Lazy's Guide to Top 10% Without Working Nights or Weekends

Postby 20130312 » Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:59 pm

This advice is the most credited of all the study guides I've read.

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francesfarmer
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Re: Lazy's Guide to Top 10% Without Working Nights or Weekends

Postby francesfarmer » Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:02 pm

JohnMarshall17 wrote:tag

Lido997
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Re: Lazy's Guide to Top 10% Without Working Nights or Weekends

Postby Lido997 » Fri Mar 01, 2013 5:58 pm

tag

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Ave
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Re: Lazy's Guide to Top 10% Without Working Nights or Weekends

Postby Ave » Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:03 pm

francesfarmer wrote:
JohnMarshall17 wrote:tag

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BlueJeanBaby
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Re: Lazy's Guide to Top 10% Without Working Nights or Weekends

Postby BlueJeanBaby » Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:10 pm

tag

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drinion
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Re: Lazy's Guide to Top 10% Without Working Nights or Weekends

Postby drinion » Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:42 pm

This seems like a great plan for 1L. I really appreciate that you took the time to post it.

I'll be shooting for a balanced life during my 1L, but I'm open to spending a little more of my time reading, studying, and outlining cases. I'll make sure to post about how well it works for me.

Cheers!

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jkpolk
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Re: Lazy's Guide to Top 10% Without Working Nights or Weekends

Postby jkpolk » Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:48 pm

InGoodFaith wrote:This advice is the most credited of all the study guides I've read.

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Jimbola
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Re: Lazy's Guide to Top 10% Without Working Nights or Weekends

Postby Jimbola » Sat Mar 09, 2013 3:56 pm

It definitely takes a certain person for this method to work, but I had a similar method my first semester and it worked pretty well. I only went to supplements when I was completely lost by the casebook and the professor.

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nickb285
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Re: Lazy's Guide to Top 10% Without Working Nights or Weekends

Postby nickb285 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:13 pm

I expect to be using (a probably somewhat modified) version of this guide in the fall, so tag. Thanks Lazy.

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mephistopheles
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Re: Lazy's Guide to Top 10% Without Working Nights or Weekends

Postby mephistopheles » Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:37 pm

apl6783 wrote:I don't know anyone, or know of anyone on this forum who went 100% supplements and did bad.



yeah, this is wrong. i know a guy who absolutely killed it, except for the one class he read pure supplements. medianpwned.

kferden
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Re: Lazy's Guide to Top 10% Without Working Nights or Weekends

Postby kferden » Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:44 pm

Aaaaaaaaaaand tag to guide my life this fall.

qwertyboard
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Re: Lazy's Guide to Top 10% Without Working Nights or Weekends

Postby qwertyboard » Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:07 pm

"provided that your professor is at least mildly competent"

I was excited about this guide until I read this. I think this guide works well if your professors are not mediocre.

My 1l professors seem to be competent but bored of the 1l course they teach. Apparently, one of the courses is very shallow and thus the test curve is very tight and the exams ends up being a typing competition.
The other doesn't really stay on track and wanders off to intellectual ideas that won't be on the test. For both courses, reading the supplements seems to be the answer here.

OP whats your opinion about this? Your guide seems relevant only to students with professors that actually teach something substantive.

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Nelson
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Re: Lazy's Guide to Top 10% Without Working Nights or Weekends

Postby Nelson » Tue Apr 16, 2013 8:34 pm

qwertyboard wrote:"provided that your professor is at least mildly competent"

I was excited about this guide until I read this. I think this guide works well if your professors are not mediocre.

My 1l professors seem to be competent but bored of the 1l course they teach. Apparently, one of the courses is very shallow and thus the test curve is very tight and the exams ends up being a typing competition.
The other doesn't really stay on track and wanders off to intellectual ideas that won't be on the test. For both courses, reading the supplements seems to be the answer here.

OP whats your opinion about this? Your guide seems relevant only to students with professors that actually teach something substantive.

Just because your prof is bad doesn't mean you don't have to figure out what they want on an exam.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Lazy's Guide to Top 10% Without Working Nights or Weekends

Postby Tiago Splitter » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:28 pm

Takes notes by hand and then manually copies them into computer even when prof. hasn't banned laptops.
Reads every assigned page.
Re-reads assigned pages when he doesn't understand.
Property notes look like a child's treasure map.
" I do not “brief” cases; I do not go through and write out all the facts, procedural history, etc. I do, however, have a separate heading for each case where I write down the rule, any dispositive facts, and whether it’s still good law as is or has been modified" (Briefs cases)
Attends office hours
Makes own outlines from scratch
Works on law school stuff straight through from 9am-6pm on multiple days in a single week

[ ] Lazy
[X] Not Lazy




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