Are Restatements Worth Buying for 1L?

(Study Tips, Dealing With Stress, Maintaining a Social Life, Financial Aid, Internships, Bar Exam, Careers in Law . . . )
User avatar
BEAST_mode
Posts: 477
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:00 pm

Are Restatements Worth Buying for 1L?

Postby BEAST_mode » Tue Aug 02, 2011 6:31 pm

Planet Law School basically told me that I will fail at all aspects of life if I don't buy, memorize, and worship them for Contracts and Torts. The price isn't terrible, and I can imagine the material being quite helpful, but are they truly necessary?

User avatar
itsirtou
Posts: 401
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:05 pm

Re: Are Restatements Worth Buying for 1L?

Postby itsirtou » Tue Aug 02, 2011 6:33 pm

My torts book had the relevant passages of the Restatements reprinted in the book. My Contracts class required that we buy it. I'd wait and see what your professor wants you to do. If he or she doesn't ask you to buy the restatement, I wouldn't.

User avatar
starchinkilt
Posts: 361
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 4:22 am

Re: Are Restatements Worth Buying for 1L?

Postby starchinkilt » Tue Aug 02, 2011 6:35 pm

BEAST_mode wrote:Planet Law School basically told me that I will fail at all aspects of life if I don't buy, memorize, and worship them for Contracts and Torts. The price isn't terrible, and I can imagine the material being quite helpful, but are they truly necessary?


They're on lexis.

User avatar
Kilpatrick
Posts: 1073
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 2:06 am

Re: Are Restatements Worth Buying for 1L?

Postby Kilpatrick » Tue Aug 02, 2011 6:39 pm

Restatements are free. But wait until you see how your professor teaches the course before you go memorizing the restatements. My Contracts professor referenced them only a few times and I don't think my Torts professor did at all.

User avatar
Glock
Posts: 395
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 6:48 pm

Re: Are Restatements Worth Buying for 1L?

Postby Glock » Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:15 pm

Wait and see what your professor says. Since your only goal should be a good grade outcome you should:

1) Buy a supplement that follows YOUR casebook
2) Listen to the professor's advice on what is helpful
3) Obtain copies of past exams from that professor to learn style
4) Ask 2Ls for outlines and advice. Find the winner and listen to them.

User avatar
Bronte
Posts: 2128
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 10:44 pm

Re: Are Restatements Worth Buying for 1L?

Postby Bronte » Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:32 pm

betasteve wrote:
BEAST_mode wrote:Planet Law School basically told me that I will fail at all aspects of life if I don't buy, memorize, and worship them for Contracts and Torts. The price isn't terrible, and I can imagine the material being quite helpful, but are they truly necessary?

PLS is fucking retarded.


Seriously. I bought the Restatement of Contracts / UCC book that was a required purchase for contracts and of course the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure that was a required purchase for Civ Pro. My criminal law book came with the Model Penal Code. In these classes, I "worshiped" (but did not "memorize") the relevant provisions of these codes. In fact, I didn't even use supplements for these courses, but instead relied heavily on the codes. I was very successful.

In classes where the restatement, etc., was not a required or even recommended purchase, I ignored the codes to the extent that they were not quoted in opinions. In these classes, I used supplements a little bit. The Planet Law School approach and other iconoclastic systems are designed for people who strongly believe that there's some way to hack law school. I advocate for the opposite. I think the recipe for success is very basic: work hard and smart and use traditional methods. Understand the material in a manner that's guided by your professors methodology.

morris248
Posts: 210
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 11:30 am

Re: Are Restatements Worth Buying for 1L?

Postby morris248 » Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:57 pm

Understand the material in a manner that's guided by your professors methodology.


That depends entirely on the professor. You will be making a big mistake if you rely only on what you are spoon fed by your professor. However, I agree with not buying the restatements until you actually need them, if ever.

User avatar
Cupidity
Posts: 2214
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:21 pm

Re: Are Restatements Worth Buying for 1L?

Postby Cupidity » Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:59 pm

No. Its a stupid idea. /thread

--ImageRemoved--
Last edited by Cupidity on Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
SeymourShowz
Posts: 164
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:04 pm

Re: Are Restatements Worth Buying for 1L?

Postby SeymourShowz » Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:01 pm

Print out or copy into your outline the relevant sections (the ones your prof covers) from Westlaw or Lexis.. If you absolutely positively have to look at the books, the library will have them. There is no reason to purchase them.

User avatar
Bronte
Posts: 2128
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 10:44 pm

Re: Are Restatements Worth Buying for 1L?

Postby Bronte » Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:06 pm

morris248 wrote:
Understand the material in a manner that's guided by your professors methodology.


That depends entirely on the professor. You will be making a big mistake if you rely only on what you are spoon fed by your professor. However, I agree with not buying the restatements until you actually need them, if ever.


Okay but I'm not recommending that you rely only on what you are spoon fed by your professor. I'm recommending that you "understand the material in a manner that's guided by your professor's methodology." For example, my contracts professor didn't really teach anything. He conducted rambling, class long cold calls that rarely touched on blackletter law. However, I knew his test was heavily multiple choice. Thus, I primarily studied from the textbook (which he'd coauthored) and the Restatement. Again, this was quite a successful technique.

To say that it "depends entirely on your professor" is to say exactly what I'm saying. And it does not lead to the conclusion that buying Restatements is an "if ever"-type proposition. Of course, the issue isn't really buying the Restatements, but using them. They're free on Westlaw and Lexis, but I prefer a hard copy.

goodolgil
Posts: 923
Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 6:01 pm

Re: Are Restatements Worth Buying for 1L?

Postby goodolgil » Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:03 pm

Bronte wrote:
morris248 wrote:
Understand the material in a manner that's guided by your professors methodology.


That depends entirely on the professor. You will be making a big mistake if you rely only on what you are spoon fed by your professor. However, I agree with not buying the restatements until you actually need them, if ever.


Okay but I'm not recommending that you rely only on what you are spoon fed by your professor. I'm recommending that you "understand the material in a manner that's guided by your professor's methodology." For example, my contracts professor didn't really teach anything. He conducted rambling, class long cold calls that rarely touched on blackletter law. However, I knew his test was heavily multiple choice. Thus, I primarily studied from the textbook (which he'd coauthored) and the Restatement. Again, this was quite a successful technique.


You must have had Frier? I did too, and since I had no idea what was going on in that class I took the opposite approach. I probably used more supps in that class than all my other classes combined. I relied very little on either the casebook or the Restatement/UCC supplement. I got an A. There really is no one way to skin a cat in law school.

But as to the topic, you'll likely be assigned the Restatement in Contracts. For torts it is by far the most important when it comes to products liability (chiefly the 2nd restatement, but you might also have to know the third_. I don't think it's very important for property. You will likely only spend 1-2 weeks on this subject. There isn't one for crim, but Model Penal Code is essentially the same thing, and the importance of that varies widely according to the professor. There is no need to worry about any of this until class starts

User avatar
Bronte
Posts: 2128
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 10:44 pm

Re: Are Restatements Worth Buying for 1L?

Postby Bronte » Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:09 pm

goodolgil wrote:You must have had Frier? I did too, and since I had no idea what was going on in that class I took the opposite approach. I probably used more supps in that class than all my other classes combined. I relied very little on either the casebook or the Restatement/UCC supplement. I got an A. There really is no one way to skin a cat in law school.

But as to the topic, you'll likely be assigned the Restatement in Contracts. For torts it is by far the most important when it comes to products liability (chiefly the 2nd restatement, but you might also have to know the third_. I don't think it's very important for property. You will likely only spend 1-2 weeks on this subject. There isn't one for crim, but Model Penal Code is essentially the same thing, and the importance of that varies widely according to the professor. There is no need to worry about any of this until class starts


I did have Frier (and also got an A), and I'm definitely not saying my approach is the only way. Some people go the supplement route, others don't. I think the ultimate conclusion is that there can be a great reason to buy a Restatement, and that reason is usually that it's assigned.

nymario
Posts: 239
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 7:57 pm

Re: Are Restatements Worth Buying for 1L?

Postby nymario » Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:26 pm

I found the Contracts Restatement/UCC to be indispensable. I didn't buy (and rarely referenced online) the Torts restatements (and got an A+ and am now RA for my Torts prof). It would be foolish to take CivPro without the FRCP (and Title 28 for that matter) at hand. If you're allowed to use it for the exam, you should certainly own it...

It really depends on the course/prof.

NotMyRealName09
Posts: 1396
Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:50 pm

Re: Are Restatements Worth Buying for 1L?

Postby NotMyRealName09 » Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:03 pm

That's like asking whether you should buy a bound set of the United States Reports.

If you need it at all, its available for free online through lexis / westlaw. There will NEVER be a need for "general" knowledge of the entire restatement - you will need to know certain topics or fields. I don't ever want to meet the boring-ass person who "read" the restatement.

The limited portions of any restatement / code / rules you will need to be familiar with will be designated by your professor. Don't over complicate things. I printed all the sections cited by my professor at any time in the course, and that was far less than the entire restatement - and, again, it was FREE.

(And the FRCP are not comparable, as they are nowhere near as voluminous as a restatement.)

Short answer, just, no.

jkay
Posts: 399
Joined: Mon May 03, 2010 2:47 pm

Re: Are Restatements Worth Buying for 1L?

Postby jkay » Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:30 pm

We had a contracts supplement required. It had the restatement and UCC article 2 and a bunch of other stuff that I never looked at. But I used the shit out of the restatements and the UCC section. It's nice to be able to look at a restatement or UCC provision in context.

Sure, you can do it on Westlaw or Lexis, but it's different and you will be looking at the most recent revision which may not comport with the version your professor cares about.
Last edited by jkay on Thu Aug 04, 2011 12:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
ndirish2010
Posts: 2951
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:41 pm

Re: Are Restatements Worth Buying for 1L?

Postby ndirish2010 » Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:13 am

My K's prof used the restatement all the time... we referred to it a decent amount in torts but not nearly as much.

User avatar
Helmholtz
Posts: 4394
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 1:48 pm

Re: Are Restatements Worth Buying for 1L?

Postby Helmholtz » Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:20 am

Bronte wrote:
goodolgil wrote:You must have had Frier? I did too, and since I had no idea what was going on in that class I took the opposite approach. I probably used more supps in that class than all my other classes combined. I relied very little on either the casebook or the Restatement/UCC supplement. I got an A. There really is no one way to skin a cat in law school.

But as to the topic, you'll likely be assigned the Restatement in Contracts. For torts it is by far the most important when it comes to products liability (chiefly the 2nd restatement, but you might also have to know the third_. I don't think it's very important for property. You will likely only spend 1-2 weeks on this subject. There isn't one for crim, but Model Penal Code is essentially the same thing, and the importance of that varies widely according to the professor. There is no need to worry about any of this until class starts


I did have Frier (and also got an A), and I'm definitely not saying my approach is the only way. Some people go the supplement route, others don't. I think the ultimate conclusion is that there can be a great reason to buy a Restatement, and that reason is usually that it's assigned.


I also had Frier and got an A. I forget exactly what I did other than (1) completely ignore what was going on in class or just not go to class at all and (2) quote the Wu-Tang Clan on my exam. Will try to replicate this path to success in the fall, and recommend all rising 1Ls do the same thing.

missinglink
Posts: 946
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:49 am

Re: Are Restatements Worth Buying for 1L?

Postby missinglink » Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:54 pm

No.

Our professor assigned a rule book that included restatement sections, and citing to the restatements served me well on the final.

So, the short answer is no, unless your professor assigns it. Then yes, buy that.

User avatar
Pizon
Posts: 138
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2008 2:53 am

Re: Are Restatements Worth Buying for 1L?

Postby Pizon » Thu Aug 04, 2011 9:28 pm

In my exhaustion, I read thread title as "Are Restaurants Worth Buying for 1L?"

I was anticipating replies such as, "Well, if you can get a good deal then go for it, but in my experience purchasing a dining establishment entails many time-consuming tasks such as hiring a wait staff and interviewing maître d's. Between studying, outlining, and looking for a job it might be best to put off until summer."

traydeuce
Posts: 680
Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2009 4:07 pm

Re: Are Restatements Worth Buying for 1L?

Postby traydeuce » Thu Aug 04, 2011 10:17 pm

Many (most?) books quote relevant portions of the Restatements. It's been a long time since first-year contracts, but there are certain key sections of the Restatement. Those, the ones your professor actually talks about, are the ones you need to know. If for some reason they are not reprinted in your book, they are on Westlaw. Of course, the Restatement, if you've never seen it, is a series of cryptic little Confucian-esque sayings about the law. The Restatement does contain comments on what these sayings mean, but you're not responsible, usually, for the comments... and then of course there are states that don't follow certain parts of the Restatement, which is often a little too ahead of its time on this or that issue. If your professor cares about that sort of thing and isn't just interested in teaching you some imaginary version of American contract law, he'll tell you when that's the case.

As for Torts, the Restatement (Second) of Torts often isn't really in line with what tort law is. Much of your torts class will consist of "the time the new Restatement said some crazy thing and then all the conservative state courts pushed back" stories.

User avatar
Bronte
Posts: 2128
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 10:44 pm

Re: Are Restatements Worth Buying for 1L?

Postby Bronte » Thu Aug 04, 2011 10:25 pm

traydeuce wrote:Many (most?) books quote relevant portions of the Restatements. It's been a long time since first-year contracts, but there are certain key sections of the Restatement. Those, the ones your professor actually talks about, are the ones you need to know. If for some reason they are not reprinted in your book, they are on Westlaw. Of course, the Restatement, if you've never seen it, is a series of cryptic little Confucian-esque sayings about the law. The Restatement does contain comments on what these sayings mean, but you're not responsible, usually, for the comments... and then of course there are states that don't follow certain parts of the Restatement, which is often a little too ahead of its time on this or that issue. If your professor cares about that sort of thing and isn't just interested in teaching you some imaginary version of American contract law, he'll tell you when that's the case.

As for Torts, the Restatement (Second) of Torts often isn't really in line with what tort law is. Much of your torts class will consist of "the time the new Restatement said some crazy thing and then all the conservative state courts pushed back" stories.


Generally good advice, but there are exceptions. I studied heavily from the Restatement of Contracts, including the comments and illustrations. This can be invaluable in a class that's under taught. I obviously only read sections that were relevant to the topics we discussed in class, but I read well outside what was specifically cited in class or in the book (which the professor wrote).

I think the Restatement of Contracts is actually relatively easy to understand, and it outlines contract law in a manner that's largely consistent with the law in major jurisdictions. Where it's contentious, it should usually be obvious. For example, the Restatement of Contracts properly sets forth the parol evidence rule. It's the more modern definition of the doctrine, but it will be obvious from the cases you read that some courts still wrongly understand the PER to literally be an evidence rule. Understanding this will be helpful, since PER questions can make up a huge portion of the exam.

traydeuce
Posts: 680
Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2009 4:07 pm

Re: Are Restatements Worth Buying for 1L?

Postby traydeuce » Thu Aug 04, 2011 10:33 pm

Bronte wrote:
traydeuce wrote:Many (most?) books quote relevant portions of the Restatements. It's been a long time since first-year contracts, but there are certain key sections of the Restatement. Those, the ones your professor actually talks about, are the ones you need to know. If for some reason they are not reprinted in your book, they are on Westlaw. Of course, the Restatement, if you've never seen it, is a series of cryptic little Confucian-esque sayings about the law. The Restatement does contain comments on what these sayings mean, but you're not responsible, usually, for the comments... and then of course there are states that don't follow certain parts of the Restatement, which is often a little too ahead of its time on this or that issue. If your professor cares about that sort of thing and isn't just interested in teaching you some imaginary version of American contract law, he'll tell you when that's the case.

As for Torts, the Restatement (Second) of Torts often isn't really in line with what tort law is. Much of your torts class will consist of "the time the new Restatement said some crazy thing and then all the conservative state courts pushed back" stories.


Generally good advice, but there are exceptions. I studied heavily from the Restatement of Contracts, including the comments and illustrations. This can be invaluable in a class that's under taught. I obviously only read sections that were relevant to the topics we discussed in class, but I read well outside what was specifically cited in class or in the book (which the professor wrote).

I think the Restatement of Contracts is actually relatively easy to understand, and it outlines contract law in a manner that's largely consistent with the law in major jurisdictions. Where it's contentious, it should usually be obvious. For example, the Restatement of Contracts properly sets forth the parol evidence rule. It's the more modern definition of the doctrine, but it will be obvious from the cases you read that some courts still wrongly understand the PER to literally be an evidence rule. Understanding this will be helpful, since PER questions can make up a huge portion of the exam.


No, you're right, the illustrations are very helpful. I guess I had the luxury of a decidedly non-undertaught contracts class, one where the professor scrupulously covered the illustrations that our very good book reprinted, so it's hard for me to speak to what the undertaught class would dictate in terms of studying. Really, the only truly undertaught class I've had was crim, and there I did just rely wholly on Dressler

User avatar
buckilaw
Posts: 840
Joined: Fri May 07, 2010 1:27 am

Re: Are Restatements Worth Buying for 1L?

Postby buckilaw » Thu Aug 04, 2011 10:34 pm

No. Relevant portions will likely be in your casebooks. And you can also access them for free on westlaw/lexis.

User avatar
TatteredDignity
Posts: 1520
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 2:06 am

Re: Are Restatements Worth Buying for 1L?

Postby TatteredDignity » Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:01 pm

F*** this thread. It's exactly this kind of bickering between people who have actually been through 1L that makes the way forward seem so impossible for 0L lemmings like me. How could there ever be consensus on 0L prep if we can't even get a firm answer on this triviality?

goodolgil wrote:There really is no one way to skin a cat in law school.


^^^This is the only thing I'm taking from this thread.^^^ I'll see you all in May with my pile of (arbitrary/logical) grades that were the result of my (reading every E&E before school/chilling on my butt all summer) and (religiously reading only the casebook/utilizing the best supplements).

So, yeah.

User avatar
Bronte
Posts: 2128
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 10:44 pm

Re: Are Restatements Worth Buying for 1L?

Postby Bronte » Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:08 pm

0LNewbie wrote:F*** this thread. It's exactly this kind of bickering between people who have actually been through 1L that makes the way forward seem so impossible for 0L lemmings like me. How could there ever be consensus on 0L prep if we can't even get a firm answer on this triviality?

goodolgil wrote:There really is no one way to skin a cat in law school.


^^^This is the only thing I'm taking from this thread.^^^ I'll see you all in May with my pile of (arbitrary/logical) grades that were the result of my (reading every E&E before school/chilling on my butt all summer) and (religiously reading only the casebook/utilizing the best supplements).

So, yeah.


Lol, a little entitled, don't you think? We're not "bickering," we're discussing various approaches, and it's to your benefit. And there is a consensus that's easily gleaned from this thread: You should use (whether or not you buy is really irrelevant) the Restatements to the extent that it makes sense in the class. In some classes, it will make sense to rely heavily on the Restatement, but in most classes it will make more sense to only learn those provisions quoted in opinions you've been assigned or discussed by your professor.

You're right, a number of us ITT have actually been through 1L and did quite well using different methods. The practice of the law is like that in general: there are few yes or no answers, and you have to extract the truth from a conflicting sources.




Return to “Forum for Law School Students”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Pneumonia, SplitMyPants and 9 guests