BS ChemE & MS EE Forum

[lawyer2bbbbe]

Hey guys,

I have a BS ChemE from top school and currently pursuing EE Master's in another mostly in semiconductors. I've heard EE is valuable, but is ChemE valuable for patent law too? Cause I've gone to websites of Finnegan etc. and a lot of the people seem to have degrees other than EE (especially large amount related to chemicals). What are you're perspectives on this? Should I market towards both?

Also, does law school prestige matter that much for IP law? The firms I've seen have plenty of partners from T4 schools... Maybe it matters more for litigation?

[Aberzombie1892]

Law school prestige still matters. Grades while in said law school? Not so much.

[TommyK]

Chem background is useful in patent work, if you're going to be having a client that is a biopharma/ pharmaceutical client. There's a lot of work out there with these huge companies litigating each other and a hard science background would be very helpful when one company wants to claim that another company's monoclonal antibody they're producing is not dissimilar enough from the monoclonal antibody they're producing (or some unreadable bullshit like that).

There are partners from T4 schools. The general consensus is that prestige matters, but since there are fewer folks that have Masters in Nuclear Chem or Ph.Ds in godknowswhat, there may be a bit more mobility out of lower ranked schools. And while specialty rankings may not matter a whole lot, I have heard that Franklin Pierce (now UNH) has a good patent law reputation and their folks fair a bit better

[run26.2]

OP, if you are asking because you are wondering whether you can get a job at a particular firm/firms from a school/schools you are considering, you should check where the associates were educated. Partners will have been out of school for 8 years. The firms' hiring may have changed, or the partner may have lateraled in.

[vb007]

ChE is good for chemical/oil type patent work. Talk about ChE when applying to firms that do that type of work. I don't think it's all that valuable for bio/pharma stuff though, especially if it is just at a BS level.

[09042014]

Hey guys,

I have a BS ChemE from top school and currently pursuing EE Master's in another mostly in semiconductors. I've heard EE is valuable, but is ChemE valuable for patent law too? Cause I've gone to websites of Finnegan etc. and a lot of the people seem to have degrees other than EE (especially large amount related to chemicals). What are you're perspectives on this? Should I market towards both?

Also, does law school prestige matter that much for IP law? The firms I've seen have plenty of partners from T4 schools... Maybe it matters more for litigation?

How good is your UG GPA, did you go to good schools, and how is your work experience. EE is really desired, and ChemE is desired too.

Your school really makes a difference, but less so in IP. But still, a huge one. They are still looking for top students at TTT. If you don't have a good tech background (Gpa/school/work ex.) then you should only go to a T14.

How the fuck are you getting an MSEE without taking any of the basic 200 level EE classes.

[lawyer2bbbbe]

Oh I have 3.9 gpa for cheme at MIT and doing a Master's in EE from Stanford (also high gpa). I took some intro ee courses at MIT before coming to Stanford and working my way up here. Actually in semiconductors the cheme background is pretty useful for processing. I'm planning to take some more courses here in EE, what do you guys recommend? Circuits? semiconductor devices?

[TommyK]

jesus...

[09042014]

Oh I have 3.9 gpa for cheme at MIT and doing a Master's in EE from Stanford (also high gpa). I took some intro ee courses at MIT before coming to Stanford and working my way up here. Actually in semiconductors the cheme background is pretty useful for processing. I'm planning to take some more courses here in EE, what do you guys recommend? Circuits? semiconductor devices?

Don't you dare waste your talents on law school.

Definitely take circuits, and semicon devices. You should be good for patent boutiques, but General Practice firms will still expect a decent law school and decent grades.

[lawyer2bbbbe]

Haha, thanks for your advice guys. What area in electronics do you think are the most patents? fabrication? alternative energy?

[lawyer2bbbbe]

also guys,

do you think i should just apply for hys after i graduate instead of going to part-time law school and working at a firm as a patent agent? i put a lot of effort into my gpa and seems like i'm wasting it? what do you guys think? probably i could get partnership credit for the latter case.

[vb007]

also guys,

do you think i should just apply for hys after i graduate instead of going to part-time law school and working at a firm as a patent agent? i put a lot of effort into my gpa and seems like i'm wasting it? what do you guys think? probably i could get partnership credit for the latter case.

go full time law school for best career prospects. first things first though... prep and take the LSAT, and get 170+.

check out this for info on what fields are popular: http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/ac/ido ... /cbcby.htm

[lawyer2bbbbe]

lol did not know semiconductor manufacturing had that many patents.......

[Corwin]

Oh I have 3.9 gpa for cheme at MIT and doing a Master's in EE from Stanford (also high gpa). I took some intro ee courses at MIT before coming to Stanford and working my way up here. Actually in semiconductors the cheme background is pretty useful for processing. I'm planning to take some more courses here in EE, what do you guys recommend? Circuits? semiconductor devices?

O_O

[09042014]

lol did not know semiconductor manufacturing had that many patents.......

Why would a multibillion dollar industry have patents? AIMIRTE?

[lawyer2bbbbe]

I think I'm glad I'm studying semiconductors now cause I don't see the industry decreasing in anyway in the future, think it'll just keep on growing

[run26.2]

I don't think you need to worry about picking classes to increase your marketability or job security. You already have that covered.

Many patent attorneys that I know do a lot of work in fields in which they do not have extensive training. The field is so broad that you are probably going to work in other areas, unless you happen to get in with a firm/partner and do work for one client (or a small group of clients) whose patent work is concentrated in your particular field of study. Maybe others have different experiences and can relate them.

IMO, a hard science UG degree is more or less a proxy for whether you understand complex technologies disclosed in patent applications.

[vb007]

I don't think you need to worry about picking classes to increase your marketability or job security. You already have that covered.

Many patent attorneys that I know do a lot of work in fields in which they do not have extensive training. The field is so broad that you are probably going to work in other areas, unless you happen to get in with a firm/partner and do work for one client (or a small group of clients) whose patent work is concentrated in your particular field of study. Maybe others have different experiences and can relate them.

IMO, a hard science UG degree is more or less a proxy for whether you understand complex technologies disclosed in patent applications.

I think this is true in some disciplines, but not all. I think there are certain classes of patents that you need a particular background. The most obvious is bio/pharma stuff. I don't think you'll ever find a patent prosecutor who will just sort of dabble in this area. Either you're concentrated on this area or you don't do it at all. To a lesser extent, I think EE/CS is another "class" where you'll find a lot of engineers and computer scientists, and a few chemists. It is unlikely to find bio people in this field.

[run26.2]

I don't think you need to worry about picking classes to increase your marketability or job security. You already have that covered.

Many patent attorneys that I know do a lot of work in fields in which they do not have extensive training. The field is so broad that you are probably going to work in other areas, unless you happen to get in with a firm/partner and do work for one client (or a small group of clients) whose patent work is concentrated in your particular field of study. Maybe others have different experiences and can relate them.

IMO, a hard science UG degree is more or less a proxy for whether you understand complex technologies disclosed in patent applications.

I think this is true in some disciplines, but not all. I think there are certain classes of patents that you need a particular background. The most obvious is bio/pharma stuff. I don't think you'll ever find a patent prosecutor who will just sort of dabble in this area. Either you're concentrated on this area or you don't do it at all. To a lesser extent, I think EE/CS is another "class" where you'll find a lot of engineers and computer scientists, and a few chemists. It is unlikely to find bio people in this field.

Yeah. I'd say bio is the one in which few people from other disciplines do prosecution, although there are exceptions. It is less insular for litigation.

[lawyer2bbbbe]

Yeah bio is an exception for sure. Think it also depends on what firm... some may specialize in computers more, while some do oil/chemicals semiconductors etc...

[truevines]

Oh I have 3.9 gpa for cheme at MIT and doing a Master's in EE from Stanford (also high gpa). I took some intro ee courses at MIT before coming to Stanford and working my way up here. Actually in semiconductors the cheme background is pretty useful for processing. I'm planning to take some more courses here in EE, what do you guys recommend? Circuits? semiconductor devices?

If you want the most security, you should consider Ph. D.

The group I've been working for this summer has four Ph. D.s from Caltech.

All the 4 are from Caltech.

[lawyer2bbbbe]

I dunno... all the people I talked to were like PhD is overkill for engineering. They said go to law school instead in that time or get more work experience as patent agent.

[lawyer2bbbbe]

bump

[yuzu]

What area in electronics do you think are the most patents? fabrication? alternative energy?

In general I'd say patent filings are roughly proportional to the market size and engineering investment going into the area. Which is to say:there would be a lot of consumer electronics patents and not as many alternative energy ones. But that's not really relevant in determining what classes you should take; what you need is a solid theoretical foundation in EE.

what do you guys recommend? Circuits? semiconductor devices?

You should make sure you've taken both of these, although if you took the equivalent at MIT I'd say you're fine. If you plan to work with wireless stuff, a basic communications course (EE179) is also important, as is a basic fields course (EE141). And the EE380 seminar has great speakers.

(I am shocked that these are not requirements for the MSEE. Stanford's MSCS has waivable "breadth" requirements that cover all the basics of software.)

If you want to take something outside of EE, I'd recommend MS&E 273 (though it is a *ton* of work!) or some CS class if you've got software skills. (I particularly enjoyed CS240 and CS244B, though you might want a 100-level class; pick something from the MSCS requirements list.)

Another option is finding a small class with a large writing component. That's what law schools want to see for LoRs, and it's something most engineers don't have. Maybe there's some "technology and public policy" class with a term paper? That sounds like good LoR fodder.

I dunno... all the people I talked to were like PhD is overkill for engineering.

I agree, although Ph.D. chemists, for example, are in high demand for patent law. Much of engineering Ph.D. "research" is of little value in my opinion.

do you think i should just apply for hys after i graduate instead of going to part-time law school and working at a firm as a patent agent?

I was in a similar position and chose HYS; I think it opens up a lot of options. I work with a lot of attorneys who did the part-time thing and they're doing OK, but the advice I got was pretty unanimous that HYS is not worth passing up. The question is whether you're willing to take the financial hit (three years' salary + tuition = $$$$$), and whether you're willing to firmly commit to working in IP law (which may well be your only option out of the part-time program).