Only one not turned off by Biglaw hours?

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dresden doll
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Re: Only one not turned off by Biglaw hours?

Postby dresden doll » Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:15 pm

Bigbub75 wrote:I'm not gonna get in a pissing contest on TLS, but I was cleary unaware of the law that made it illegal in 39 states to have sex after 10pm or on the weekends. My bad!


Strawmen go down better if they're at least a little funny.

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rayiner
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Re: Only one not turned off by Biglaw hours?

Postby rayiner » Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:15 pm

Kronk wrote:Meet a girl you enjoy spending time with and you won't want to be getting comp'd dinner while you write summary judgment motions. You'll want to be motor-boating. I objectively judge anyone that would take money over motor-boating opportunities.


I love spending time with my girl and she lets me motorboat her when I get home at 10 pm.

CreativityKing
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Re: Only one not turned off by Biglaw hours?

Postby CreativityKing » Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:16 pm

Lots of #humblebrag going on ITT re: tolerance for heavy work schedules.

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rayiner
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Re: Only one not turned off by Biglaw hours?

Postby rayiner » Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:16 pm

sundevil77 wrote:The labor/leisure tradeoff for some people in this thread is astonishing. Diminishing marginal returns of money really kick in for me around the 9-10 hr. mark. Working 12 hr. days/6 days a week for an extended period of time just doesn't appeal to me.

Also, some people have expressed the belief that you have to work long hours to be extremely successful. Not true. If you want to grind out hours for the man, you can certainly be successful in the law. But if you are intelligent, well-liked, and motivated you can do very well for yourself by being your own boss. You take more risk, but there's a lot more reward. 40 hr/week for $150K? Yes, please.


Being your own boss doing what? I worked for a startup and my boss worked insane hours. Literally every waking minute for five years.

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rayiner
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Re: Only one not turned off by Biglaw hours?

Postby rayiner » Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:19 pm

fingersxd wrote:
sunynp wrote:Did anyone read the hours the Skadden associate who died was working? Do you honestly think you could maintain that pace for years? Some people can, more power to them. But most people just don't have the legendary energy and stamina required to sustain that pace for years with no time off.

You won't get called on a Thursday for something due on Monday. If you are lucky you will get a call around 5pm or 6pm on Friday for something due Saturday. If you notice on Above the Law, one of the main questions for associates is if they manage to take their vacations or are expected to cancel them. They also ask how often you have to check your blackberry - virtually every firm required 24/7 attention and availability.

My point is that you do not understand what working these hours really entails. As I said, some people can manage it without a problem. Most people have trouble sustaining the pace. People leave biglaw in droves after a couple of years, the hours are the main reason why.


This is an important point. Even when you are not in the office you are on call or working. You might only be in the office 7-7 (if you're lucky), but you'll sure as hell be on your blackberry or working remotely much of the other time.


If you're in the office 7-7 and working remotely the rest of the day then you're either not working weekends or else billing 3,000 hours. Go to a biglaw office. It'll be pretty deserted before 9 am and after 8 pm.

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Kronk
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Re: Only one not turned off by Biglaw hours?

Postby Kronk » Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:19 pm

rayiner wrote:
Kronk wrote:Meet a girl you enjoy spending time with and you won't want to be getting comp'd dinner while you write summary judgment motions. You'll want to be motor-boating. I objectively judge anyone that would take money over motor-boating opportunities.


I love spending time with my girl and she lets me motorboat her when I get home at 10 pm.


So what, you just walk through the door and she says "Oh hey honey. I know we haven't talked at all today or yesterday, but instead of catching up on our lives, let's get straight to the motorboating?"

Sounds like every girl I know.

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dresden doll
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Re: Only one not turned off by Biglaw hours?

Postby dresden doll » Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:23 pm

Kronk wrote:
rayiner wrote:
Kronk wrote:Meet a girl you enjoy spending time with and you won't want to be getting comp'd dinner while you write summary judgment motions. You'll want to be motor-boating. I objectively judge anyone that would take money over motor-boating opportunities.


I love spending time with my girl and she lets me motorboat her when I get home at 10 pm.


So what, you just walk through the door and she says "Oh hey honey. I know we haven't talked at all today or yesterday, but instead of catching up on our lives, let's get straight to the motorboating?"

Sounds like every girl I know.


I would absolutely welcome this attitude.

fingersxd
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Re: Only one not turned off by Biglaw hours?

Postby fingersxd » Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:24 pm

AreJay711 wrote:I don't think biglaw hours seem that bad. I had a job where it was only 8 hours a day but a 2 hr commute each way and life was bearable (for a lot less money). The thing is, if you don't enjoy the work it would be straight up hell. If you had children it would also be a bit harder because that is where the rest of your time would be spent.


This isn't comparable. You worked for 8 hours and then got to sleep/read/relax for 4 more.

BigLaw is more like this: Work 12 hours in the office. Then go home and do some more work in between dinner, gym, sex. Then 5-6 hours of sleep, wake up and do it all over for several years (plus cancelled vacations, hurt feelings and failed relationships strewn on your path to partnernship).

Hours are worse if you have major project. Better if not.

I can't wait.

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Kronk
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Re: Only one not turned off by Biglaw hours?

Postby Kronk » Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:24 pm

dresden doll wrote:
Kronk wrote:
rayiner wrote:I love spending time with my girl and she lets me motorboat her when I get home at 10 pm.


So what, you just walk through the door and she says "Oh hey honey. I know we haven't talked at all today or yesterday, but instead of catching up on our lives, let's get straight to the motorboating?"

Sounds like every girl I know.


I would absolutely welcome this attitude.


You're cool and perhaps a novelty.

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dresden doll
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Re: Only one not turned off by Biglaw hours?

Postby dresden doll » Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:26 pm

Kronk wrote:
You're cool and perhaps a novelty.


I pretty much prefer having sex to just about any other activity under the sun. I like to think this is a relatively common attitude.

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rayiner
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Re: Only one not turned off by Biglaw hours?

Postby rayiner » Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:28 pm

Kronk wrote:
rayiner wrote:
Kronk wrote:Meet a girl you enjoy spending time with and you won't want to be getting comp'd dinner while you write summary judgment motions. You'll want to be motor-boating. I objectively judge anyone that would take money over motor-boating opportunities.


I love spending time with my girl and she lets me motorboat her when I get home at 10 pm.


So what, you just walk through the door and she says "Oh hey honey. I know we haven't talked at all today or yesterday, but instead of catching up on our lives, let's get straight to the motorboating?"


I text/email/gchat with her throughout the day so at any given point we're fully caught up.

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Kronk
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Re: Only one not turned off by Biglaw hours?

Postby Kronk » Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:30 pm

dresden doll wrote:
Kronk wrote:
You're cool and perhaps a novelty.


I pretty much prefer having sex to just about any other activity under the sun. I like to think this is a relatively common attitude.


I generally have to talk to my girlfriend before I bang her. Unfortunate, I know.

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AreJay711
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Re: Only one not turned off by Biglaw hours?

Postby AreJay711 » Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:34 pm

fingersxd wrote:
AreJay711 wrote:I don't think biglaw hours seem that bad. I had a job where it was only 8 hours a day but a 2 hr commute each way and life was bearable (for a lot less money). The thing is, if you don't enjoy the work it would be straight up hell. If you had children it would also be a bit harder because that is where the rest of your time would be spent.


This isn't comparable. You worked for 8 hours and then got to sleep/read/relax for 4 more.

BigLaw is more like this: Work 12 hours in the office. Then go home and do some more work in between dinner, gym, sex. Then 5-6 hours of sleep, wake up and do it all over for several years (plus cancelled vacations, hurt feelings and failed relationships strewn on your path to partnernship).

Hours are worse if you have major project. Better if not.

I can't wait.

I mean idk how relaxing driving around the Washington Beltway is during rush-hour but sure, I guess it is not directly comparable. The drive was the worst part tbh -- Northwest corner of the beltway to the South East

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dresden doll
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Re: Only one not turned off by Biglaw hours?

Postby dresden doll » Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:46 pm

Kronk wrote:
dresden doll wrote:
Kronk wrote:
You're cool and perhaps a novelty.


I pretty much prefer having sex to just about any other activity under the sun. I like to think this is a relatively common attitude.


I generally have to talk to my girlfriend before I bang her. Unfortunate, I know.


I'd text before walking in to lay the foundation.

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Corwin
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Re: Only one not turned off by Biglaw hours?

Postby Corwin » Fri Jul 15, 2011 2:23 pm

DoubleChecks wrote:
englawyer wrote:
DoubleChecks wrote:
That is also a reason why others gawk at the hours. I mean, there are a number of other professions that make just as much as biglaw (excluding partnership) once you factor in average debt...but they don't have anywhere near the insane hours and unpredictability. Oh yeah, that was my other main point haha. :P


what are these professions?


after factoring debt? accounting, dentistry, pharmacy, certain types of engineering, etc.

In additional to those, lots of other professions make the same hourly rate as biglaw, but only bill 2K hours year. The salary of a programming job from a top 10 engineering school a few years out is one example.

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: Only one not turned off by Biglaw hours?

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Fri Jul 15, 2011 3:06 pm

Corwin wrote:
DoubleChecks wrote:
englawyer wrote:
DoubleChecks wrote:
That is also a reason why others gawk at the hours. I mean, there are a number of other professions that make just as much as biglaw (excluding partnership) once you factor in average debt...but they don't have anywhere near the insane hours and unpredictability. Oh yeah, that was my other main point haha. :P


what are these professions?


after factoring debt? accounting, dentistry, pharmacy, certain types of engineering, etc.

In additional to those, lots of other professions make the same hourly rate as biglaw, but only bill 2K hours year. The salary of a programming job from a top 10 engineering school a few years out is one example.


Also worth pointing out that all of those require a fairly significant undergrad foundation. If you screwed up when you were 17-20, those are basically off the plate - a situation many of us are in, I imagine.

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Re: Only one not turned off by Biglaw hours?

Postby Halie » Fri Jul 15, 2011 3:29 pm

rayiner wrote:Re: family. My dad worked 70-80 hour weeks his whole career and has a great family life. Kids don't remember their interactions with you until they're 4-5 anyway and don't get mad for breaking dinner appointments. Don't try to structure your social life with planned shows and stuff and find a spouse who will be happy as long as he/she has your full attention during those 35 hour weeks and you'll be fine.


This. Growing up the child of two parents who work more than full-time, including one who travels extensively and works weekends/occasional late nights, I think you can make it work. I think the key is that my parents were on the same wavelength and they both just accepted/worked around it. For example, we ate dinner as a family at least 3/4 times per week, which is a lot more than you can say for the average American family.

I think that's actually why I'm not so turned off by long (hellish) hours either, because I grew up seeing that as the example of what being an adult looks like.

23402385985
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Re: Only one not turned off by Biglaw hours?

Postby 23402385985 » Fri Jul 15, 2011 3:43 pm

albusdumbledore wrote::roll: . Pharmacists don't start at 75k. More like 110k.


Yeah, but now there is a huge surplus of pharmacists. A lot of people I know who graduated with PharmDs are looking for work (I was originally a Pharm student). That ship has sailed where it's an easy job to get and keep.

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Re: Only one not turned off by Biglaw hours?

Postby sundevil77 » Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:17 pm

rayiner wrote:
sundevil77 wrote:The labor/leisure tradeoff for some people in this thread is astonishing. Diminishing marginal returns of money really kick in for me around the 9-10 hr. mark. Working 12 hr. days/6 days a week for an extended period of time just doesn't appeal to me.

Also, some people have expressed the belief that you have to work long hours to be extremely successful. Not true. If you want to grind out hours for the man, you can certainly be successful in the law. But if you are intelligent, well-liked, and motivated you can do very well for yourself by being your own boss. You take more risk, but there's a lot more reward. 40 hr/week for $150K? Yes, please.


Being your own boss doing what? I worked for a startup and my boss worked insane hours. Literally every waking minute for five years.


Sorry for the confusion. I meant being your own boss as an attorney. The stability of Biglaw isn't there, but the potential to make great money AND still have reasonable hours is a definite possibility.

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Re: Only one not turned off by Biglaw hours?

Postby emciosn » Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:21 pm

sundevil77 wrote:
rayiner wrote:
sundevil77 wrote:The labor/leisure tradeoff for some people in this thread is astonishing. Diminishing marginal returns of money really kick in for me around the 9-10 hr. mark. Working 12 hr. days/6 days a week for an extended period of time just doesn't appeal to me.

Also, some people have expressed the belief that you have to work long hours to be extremely successful. Not true. If you want to grind out hours for the man, you can certainly be successful in the law. But if you are intelligent, well-liked, and motivated you can do very well for yourself by being your own boss. You take more risk, but there's a lot more reward. 40 hr/week for $150K? Yes, please.


Being your own boss doing what? I worked for a startup and my boss worked insane hours. Literally every waking minute for five years.


Sorry for the confusion. I meant being your own boss as an attorney. The stability of Biglaw isn't there, but the potential to make great money AND still have reasonable hours is a definite possibility.


Do you really think it is plausible to start your own practice right out of law school in these economic conditions?

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rayiner
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Re: Only one not turned off by Biglaw hours?

Postby rayiner » Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:24 pm

Corwin wrote:
DoubleChecks wrote:
englawyer wrote:
DoubleChecks wrote:
That is also a reason why others gawk at the hours. I mean, there are a number of other professions that make just as much as biglaw (excluding partnership) once you factor in average debt...but they don't have anywhere near the insane hours and unpredictability. Oh yeah, that was my other main point haha. :P


what are these professions?


after factoring debt? accounting, dentistry, pharmacy, certain types of engineering, etc.

In additional to those, lots of other professions make the same hourly rate as biglaw, but only bill 2K hours year. The salary of a programming job from a top 10 engineering school a few years out is one example.


LOL no. I worked plenty of 16/7 weeks in engineering.

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rayiner
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Re: Only one not turned off by Biglaw hours?

Postby rayiner » Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:25 pm

sundevil77 wrote:
rayiner wrote:
sundevil77 wrote:The labor/leisure tradeoff for some people in this thread is astonishing. Diminishing marginal returns of money really kick in for me around the 9-10 hr. mark. Working 12 hr. days/6 days a week for an extended period of time just doesn't appeal to me.

Also, some people have expressed the belief that you have to work long hours to be extremely successful. Not true. If you want to grind out hours for the man, you can certainly be successful in the law. But if you are intelligent, well-liked, and motivated you can do very well for yourself by being your own boss. You take more risk, but there's a lot more reward. 40 hr/week for $150K? Yes, please.


Being your own boss doing what? I worked for a startup and my boss worked insane hours. Literally every waking minute for five years.


Sorry for the confusion. I meant being your own boss as an attorney. The stability of Biglaw isn't there, but the potential to make great money AND still have reasonable hours is a definite possibility.


How do you make $150k for 40 hours a week as "your own boss" as an attorney?

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Peace of Mind
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Re: Only one not turned off by Biglaw hours?

Postby Peace of Mind » Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:26 pm

I am turned off!

I want a life outside of my work... not necessarily a family... but I don't want to live and breathe biglaw that's for damn sure!

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Corwin
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Re: Only one not turned off by Biglaw hours?

Postby Corwin » Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:27 pm

rayiner wrote:LOL no. I worked plenty of 16/7 weeks in engineering.

Well you were in Aero. You got screwed over in any which way. :P Most of the CS guys I know 40 hours a week, sometimes remotely. Most of the CS guys I know who work 60+ are doing it because they want to, so they stay at work longer and geek out. The married guys go home at 5.

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rayiner
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Re: Only one not turned off by Biglaw hours?

Postby rayiner » Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:29 pm

Corwin wrote:
rayiner wrote:LOL no. I worked plenty of 16/7 weeks in engineering.

Well you were in Aero. You got screwed over in any which way. :P Most of the CS guys I know 40 hours a week, sometimes remotely. Most of the CS guys I know who work 60+ are doing it because they want to, so they stay at work longer and geek out. The married guys go home at 5.


I was working as a programmer. When builds had to ship or there were project milestones the work was damn heavy.




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