Only one not turned off by Biglaw hours?

(Study Tips, Dealing With Stress, Maintaining a Social Life, Financial Aid, Internships, Bar Exam, Careers in Law . . . )
User avatar
sundevil77
Posts: 391
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 8:34 pm

Re: Only one not turned off by Biglaw hours?

Postby sundevil77 » Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:31 pm

emciosn wrote:
sundevil77 wrote:
rayiner wrote:
sundevil77 wrote:The labor/leisure tradeoff for some people in this thread is astonishing. Diminishing marginal returns of money really kick in for me around the 9-10 hr. mark. Working 12 hr. days/6 days a week for an extended period of time just doesn't appeal to me.

Also, some people have expressed the belief that you have to work long hours to be extremely successful. Not true. If you want to grind out hours for the man, you can certainly be successful in the law. But if you are intelligent, well-liked, and motivated you can do very well for yourself by being your own boss. You take more risk, but there's a lot more reward. 40 hr/week for $150K? Yes, please.


Being your own boss doing what? I worked for a startup and my boss worked insane hours. Literally every waking minute for five years.


Sorry for the confusion. I meant being your own boss as an attorney. The stability of Biglaw isn't there, but the potential to make great money AND still have reasonable hours is a definite possibility.


Do you really think it is plausible to start your own practice right out of law school in these economic conditions?


No, I don't. I'm just trying to say that working Biglaw hours for the next 10-20 yrs. isn't the only way to make good money. There are better, yet riskier options out there. People stay with Biglaw because there is little risk and/or they don't have the skills to be a successful solo.

User avatar
Corwin
Posts: 451
Joined: Thu May 12, 2011 1:12 pm

Re: Only one not turned off by Biglaw hours?

Postby Corwin » Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:32 pm

rayiner wrote:
Corwin wrote:
rayiner wrote:LOL no. I worked plenty of 16/7 weeks in engineering.

Well you were in Aero. You got screwed over in any which way. :P Most of the CS guys I know 40 hours a week, sometimes remotely. Most of the CS guys I know who work 60+ are doing it because they want to, so they stay at work longer and geek out. The married guys go home at 5.


I was working as a programmer. When builds had to ship or there were project milestones the work was damn heavy.

Well if you were working 16/7 as a programmer you really should have been getting paid well over 100K. :shock: MSFT program managers right out of undergrad are getting paid 80-85K for 40-50 hour work weeks.

User avatar
sundevil77
Posts: 391
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 8:34 pm

Re: Only one not turned off by Biglaw hours?

Postby sundevil77 » Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:34 pm

rayiner wrote:
sundevil77 wrote:
rayiner wrote:
sundevil77 wrote:The labor/leisure tradeoff for some people in this thread is astonishing. Diminishing marginal returns of money really kick in for me around the 9-10 hr. mark. Working 12 hr. days/6 days a week for an extended period of time just doesn't appeal to me.

Also, some people have expressed the belief that you have to work long hours to be extremely successful. Not true. If you want to grind out hours for the man, you can certainly be successful in the law. But if you are intelligent, well-liked, and motivated you can do very well for yourself by being your own boss. You take more risk, but there's a lot more reward. 40 hr/week for $150K? Yes, please.


Being your own boss doing what? I worked for a startup and my boss worked insane hours. Literally every waking minute for five years.


Sorry for the confusion. I meant being your own boss as an attorney. The stability of Biglaw isn't there, but the potential to make great money AND still have reasonable hours is a definite possibility.


How do you make $150k for 40 hours a week as "your own boss" as an attorney?


The person I know actually works something like 30-35 hours a week. 40 hours would be a "taxing" week. It's possible.

User avatar
rayiner
Posts: 6184
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:43 am

Re: Only one not turned off by Biglaw hours?

Postby rayiner » Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:35 pm

Corwin wrote:
rayiner wrote:
Corwin wrote:
rayiner wrote:LOL no. I worked plenty of 16/7 weeks in engineering.

Well you were in Aero. You got screwed over in any which way. :P Most of the CS guys I know 40 hours a week, sometimes remotely. Most of the CS guys I know who work 60+ are doing it because they want to, so they stay at work longer and geek out. The married guys go home at 5.


I was working as a programmer. When builds had to ship or there were project milestones the work was damn heavy.

Well if you were working 16/7 as a programmer you really should have been getting paid well over 100K. :shock: MSFT program managers right out of undergrad are getting paid 80-85K for 40-50 hour work weeks.


Yeah I missed BIGPROGRAMMING, had to settle for MIDPROGRAMMING for lower salary for the same hours.

User avatar
emciosn
Posts: 392
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 3:53 pm

Re: Only one not turned off by Biglaw hours?

Postby emciosn » Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:44 pm

sundevil77 wrote:
No, I don't. I'm just trying to say that working Biglaw hours for the next 10-20 yrs. isn't the only way to make good money. There are better, yet riskier options out there. People stay with Biglaw because there is little risk and/or they don't have the skills to be a successful solo.


Don't you think there comes a point where the option is so risk that it is not a better option? I don't think it is fair to say something is better when the most likely outcome is that you will be crushed by your debt load when you can't find work.

User avatar
sundevil77
Posts: 391
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 8:34 pm

Re: Only one not turned off by Biglaw hours?

Postby sundevil77 » Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:52 pm

emciosn wrote:
sundevil77 wrote:
No, I don't. I'm just trying to say that working Biglaw hours for the next 10-20 yrs. isn't the only way to make good money. There are better, yet riskier options out there. People stay with Biglaw because there is little risk and/or they don't have the skills to be a successful solo.


Don't you think there comes a point where the option is so risk that it is not a better option? I don't think it is fair to say something is better when the most likely outcome is that you will be crushed by your debt load when you can't find work.


I think you're right, for some people it isn't a better option. It all depends on your willingness to tolerate big firm life.

Also, keep that debt down. :D It gives you freedom and relieves stress.

User avatar
englawyer
Posts: 1270
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:57 pm

Re: Only one not turned off by Biglaw hours?

Postby englawyer » Fri Jul 15, 2011 5:15 pm

rayiner wrote:
Corwin wrote:
rayiner wrote:LOL no. I worked plenty of 16/7 weeks in engineering.

Well you were in Aero. You got screwed over in any which way. :P Most of the CS guys I know 40 hours a week, sometimes remotely. Most of the CS guys I know who work 60+ are doing it because they want to, so they stay at work longer and geek out. The married guys go home at 5.


I was working as a programmer. When builds had to ship or there were project milestones the work was damn heavy.


i agree w/ this. not sure why programming is getting overly praised ITT. we also aren't discussing some of the big downsides:

(1) there is little chance to get increased compensation. everyone competes for 3%,6%,9% raises (or something like that). even if you bust your ass for the higher end raises they are nothing compared to associate raises.

(2) you tend to get over-specialized and then obsolete. you become the expert on "Module X" and the company always wants you working on that. That's fine and good for a few years but then they switch computer languages etc and just hire some new hotshot programmer.

(3) you do put in strenuous hours, and fairly often to meet release dates etc. its not comparable to law, but you get ZERO credit for that extra work. at least law you can rack up the hours and you get recognized either through better partnership prospects or a bigger bonus.

(4) if you do something kick-ass, the company retains all IP and you get little extra compensation (if any) and little recognition to the outside world.

(5) socially and politically, programmers are the bottom of the barrel. MBA hot shots work downtown and do "business" stuff, and make a ton of money doing so. programmers work in some cube-farm out in the middle of suburbia and are viewed as interchangeable "resources" that can be re-assigned/replaced/etc at will.

(6) you have ZERO chance at building equity in the business; in law terms, you are equivalent to a "staff attorney" and there is no partnership track. admittedly, partnership is tough to make in law. but its a cool system where you can eventually partially reap what you sow. and if not at your current firm you can lateral to a smaller/less known firm where it becomes more of a realistic prospect.

all of these could very well be positives or neutrals if you are just looking for a steady job to get by. but it can be a frustrating career path for someone that is passionate about their work-life/career.

User avatar
emciosn
Posts: 392
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 3:53 pm

Re: Only one not turned off by Biglaw hours?

Postby emciosn » Fri Jul 15, 2011 5:21 pm

sundevil77 wrote:
emciosn wrote:
sundevil77 wrote:
No, I don't. I'm just trying to say that working Biglaw hours for the next 10-20 yrs. isn't the only way to make good money. There are better, yet riskier options out there. People stay with Biglaw because there is little risk and/or they don't have the skills to be a successful solo.


Don't you think there comes a point where the option is so risk that it is not a better option? I don't think it is fair to say something is better when the most likely outcome is that you will be crushed by your debt load when you can't find work.


I think you're right, for some people it isn't a better option. It all depends on your willingness to tolerate big firm life.

Also, keep that debt down. :D It gives you freedom and relieves stress.


Haha yes your are right on that, just not incurring the crushing debt in the first place would be a smart move.

User avatar
prezidentv8
Posts: 2821
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:33 am

Re: Only one not turned off by Biglaw hours?

Postby prezidentv8 » Fri Jul 15, 2011 5:27 pm

rayiner wrote:Yeah I missed BIGPROGRAMMING, had to settle for MIDPROGRAMMING for lower salary for the same hours.


That is brilliant.

Total Litigator
Posts: 695
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2010 12:17 pm

Re: Only one not turned off by Biglaw hours?

Postby Total Litigator » Fri Jul 15, 2011 5:33 pm

Bigbub75 wrote:I'm currently a 2L evening student at a solid regional school. I've done "well" so far so biglaw/ midlaw is possibly within my reach. In my research and from reading blogs/TLS one major complaint I continue to read about is the hours. But to be honest the hours don't seem to be that bad. Because I hold a fulltime job and go to school my days start at around 5:30am and end at around 10:00pm Monday - Thursday. Friday evenings I take it easy and then I usually study on the weekends. So BigLaw just seems like it would be a continuation of the current hours I keep, which aren't wonderful, but it certainty aren't unbearable either. Granted I am not married and don't have children so I am sure that may change the dynamics.

Prior to law school I worked at Merrill Lynch, and working at least until 7 was the norm. I also have friends who are doctors, Vice Presidents at Fortune 500 companies, Investment Bankers, etc and all seem to work insane hours. No matter what field you work in, if you want to be successful, it appears that long hours are par for the course. I know very few extremely successful people that work 40 hours a week. Maybe because I am a non-trad my outlook is different, but Biglaw hours don't seem to be that big of a turn off to me.


Cool story Ma.

User avatar
Borhas
Posts: 4854
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2009 6:09 pm

Re: Only one not turned off by Biglaw hours?

Postby Borhas » Fri Jul 15, 2011 5:33 pm

ITT we find out that the grass is not greener on the other side

in fact, there is no grass, green or otherwise, just endless fields of jagged, shit stained rocks (Also that lawyers are overpaid)

User avatar
rayiner
Posts: 6184
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:43 am

Re: Only one not turned off by Biglaw hours?

Postby rayiner » Fri Jul 15, 2011 6:02 pm

prezidentv8 wrote:
rayiner wrote:Yeah I missed BIGPROGRAMMING, had to settle for MIDPROGRAMMING for lower salary for the same hours.


That is brilliant.


Dude. At least it wasn't SHITPROGRAMMING. Those folks at EA making your Madden games work 90 hour weeks for bouillon cubes and clean water.

User avatar
rayiner
Posts: 6184
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:43 am

Re: Only one not turned off by Biglaw hours?

Postby rayiner » Fri Jul 15, 2011 6:04 pm

englawyer wrote:
rayiner wrote:
Corwin wrote:
rayiner wrote:LOL no. I worked plenty of 16/7 weeks in engineering.

Well you were in Aero. You got screwed over in any which way. :P Most of the CS guys I know 40 hours a week, sometimes remotely. Most of the CS guys I know who work 60+ are doing it because they want to, so they stay at work longer and geek out. The married guys go home at 5.


I was working as a programmer. When builds had to ship or there were project milestones the work was damn heavy.


i agree w/ this. not sure why programming is getting overly praised ITT. we also aren't discussing some of the big downsides:

(1) there is little chance to get increased compensation. everyone competes for 3%,6%,9% raises (or something like that). even if you bust your ass for the higher end raises they are nothing compared to associate raises.

(2) you tend to get over-specialized and then obsolete. you become the expert on "Module X" and the company always wants you working on that. That's fine and good for a few years but then they switch computer languages etc and just hire some new hotshot programmer.

(3) you do put in strenuous hours, and fairly often to meet release dates etc. its not comparable to law, but you get ZERO credit for that extra work. at least law you can rack up the hours and you get recognized either through better partnership prospects or a bigger bonus.

(4) if you do something kick-ass, the company retains all IP and you get little extra compensation (if any) and little recognition to the outside world.

(5) socially and politically, programmers are the bottom of the barrel. MBA hot shots work downtown and do "business" stuff, and make a ton of money doing so. programmers work in some cube-farm out in the middle of suburbia and are viewed as interchangeable "resources" that can be re-assigned/replaced/etc at will.

(6) you have ZERO chance at building equity in the business; in law terms, you are equivalent to a "staff attorney" and there is no partnership track. admittedly, partnership is tough to make in law. but its a cool system where you can eventually partially reap what you sow. and if not at your current firm you can lateral to a smaller/less known firm where it becomes more of a realistic prospect.

all of these could very well be positives or neutrals if you are just looking for a steady job to get by. but it can be a frustrating career path for someone that is passionate about their work-life/career.


The bolded reasons where why I left engineering to become a lawyer. Going to Cravath and doing rotations for years for a 3% chance of making partner? That's more legit training and a hell of a better shot at building substantial equity than you have working for a big software company.

At least I get an office with a door that closes, and it feels pretty good to know that the partners bill hours for a living too.

There was a reddit thread about an engineer who had just filed a patent that was going to make his company a shit-ton of money. People were telling him that if he played his cards right he might get a $10,000 (!) bonus. :|

User avatar
Corwin
Posts: 451
Joined: Thu May 12, 2011 1:12 pm

Re: Only one not turned off by Biglaw hours?

Postby Corwin » Fri Jul 15, 2011 7:36 pm

englawyer wrote:i agree w/ this. not sure why programming is getting overly praised ITT. we also aren't discussing some of the big downsides:

Do you actually know anything about tech employment? Most of the things you claim don't hold true in a lot of cases.
englawyer wrote:(1) there is little chance to get increased compensation. everyone competes for 3%,6%,9% raises (or something like that). even if you bust your ass for the higher end raises they are nothing compared to associate raises.

Lateraling for programming usually results in a 20%+ raise. True, it is difficult to get a large raise within a company, but if you really want a lot of money you just switch companies a few times every 3-5 years.
englawyer wrote:(2) you tend to get over-specialized and then obsolete. you become the expert on "Module X" and the company always wants you working on that. That's fine and good for a few years but then they switch computer languages etc and just hire some new hotshot programmer.

That can happen to certain types of programmers. It doesn't happen to anyone who went through a decent engineering program and was above the median (i.e. anyone competent).
englawyer wrote:(3) you do put in strenuous hours, and fairly often to meet release dates etc. its not comparable to law, but you get ZERO credit for that extra work. at least law you can rack up the hours and you get recognized either through better partnership prospects or a bigger bonus.

Competent programmers who are willing to put in strenuous hours are either highly compensated or they are working at a startup. Anyone who is working strenuous hours and getting paid an average about is probably well below the median or just really naive.
englawyer wrote:(4) if you do something kick-ass, the company retains all IP and you get little extra compensation (if any) and little recognition to the outside world.

Programmers who are capable of doing something truly kick ass start a startup, retain all their IP, and get rich. A lot of companies also payout bonuses and do profit sharing for patents. Programmers who get screwed out of their IP are working for a shitty company.
englawyer wrote:(5) socially and politically, programmers are the bottom of the barrel. MBA hot shots work downtown and do "business" stuff, and make a ton of money doing so. programmers work in some cube-farm out in the middle of suburbia and are viewed as interchangeable "resources" that can be re-assigned/replaced/etc at will.

LOL. And herein you reveal the reason why you seem to be so misguided when it comes to programmers. Whatever experience you have with programmer is clearly from the bottom of the barrel, likely at a large, slow moving company. Compare to Google, Facebook, and startups, where Engineering >> Management.
englawyer wrote:(6) you have ZERO chance at building equity in the business; in law terms, you are equivalent to a "staff attorney" and there is no partnership track. admittedly, partnership is tough to make in law. but its a cool system where you can eventually partially reap what you sow. and if not at your current firm you can lateral to a smaller/less known firm where it becomes more of a realistic prospect.

Programmers who want to own equity start a startup. I can move to California tomorrow and have a chance at a few million in VC funding after a couple of months. Programmers have the ultimate meritocracy. They can work hard, get VC funding, and succeed on their own merit. This is in sharp contrast to lawyers, who rarely start their own firms right out of law school and work for 6-10 years before they get equity.

liLtuneChi
Posts: 109
Joined: Thu May 19, 2011 8:28 pm

Re: Only one not turned off by Biglaw hours?

Postby liLtuneChi » Fri Jul 15, 2011 10:04 pm

sunynp wrote:Did anyone read the hours the Skadden associate who died was working? Do you honestly think you could maintain that pace for years? Some people can, more power to them. But most people just don't have the legendary energy and stamina required to sustain that pace for years with no time off.

You won't get called on a Thursday for something due on Monday. If you are lucky you will get a call around 5pm or 6pm on Friday for something due Saturday. If you notice on Above the Law, one of the main questions for associates is if they manage to take their vacations or are expected to cancel them. They also ask how often you have to check your blackberry - virtually every firm required 24/7 attention and availability.

My point is that you do not understand what working these hours really entails. As I said, some people can manage it without a problem. Most people have trouble sustaining the pace. People leave biglaw in droves after a couple of years, the hours are the main reason why.


I can't stand people who think that big $$$ doesn't come with sacrifies. If you want a 9-5 job and free weekends then don't do biglaw PERIOD. Go and work in the state AG office in Montana. Have fun raising your kids on $40k/yr.

I look like work no different than school. I'm not there to just get by and live comfortable. I'm there to be the BEST. I don't mind hard work and I realize that the hard work now will pay off in the future.

That should be the mentality of someone getting into biglaw. All this work-life balance BS makes me sick.

jarofsoup
Posts: 1951
Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:41 am

Re: Only one not turned off by Biglaw hours?

Postby jarofsoup » Fri Jul 15, 2011 10:07 pm

Big or mid law while in litigation hours are hellish. Late nights and late nights on weekends.

I guess you gotta win huh?

User avatar
dresden doll
Posts: 6802
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 1:11 am

Re: Only one not turned off by Biglaw hours?

Postby dresden doll » Fri Jul 15, 2011 10:19 pm

liLtuneChi wrote:
I can't stand people who think that big $$$ doesn't come with sacrifies. If you want a 9-5 job and free weekends then don't do biglaw PERIOD. Go and work in the state AG office in Montana. Have fun raising your kids on $40k/yr.

I look like work no different than school. I'm not there to just get by and live comfortable. I'm there to be the BEST. I don't mind hard work and I realize that the hard work now will pay off in the future.

That should be the mentality of someone getting into biglaw. All this work-life balance BS makes me sick.


I find it more nauseating when people erect strawmen in order to gain a point from which to rally like self congratulating jackasses.

User avatar
Corwin
Posts: 451
Joined: Thu May 12, 2011 1:12 pm

Re: Only one not turned off by Biglaw hours?

Postby Corwin » Fri Jul 15, 2011 10:52 pm

dresden doll wrote:
liLtuneChi wrote:
I can't stand people who think that big $$$ doesn't come with sacrifies. If you want a 9-5 job and free weekends then don't do biglaw PERIOD. Go and work in the state AG office in Montana. Have fun raising your kids on $40k/yr.

I look like work no different than school. I'm not there to just get by and live comfortable. I'm there to be the BEST. I don't mind hard work and I realize that the hard work now will pay off in the future.

That should be the mentality of someone getting into biglaw. All this work-life balance BS makes me sick.


I find it more nauseating when people erect strawmen in order to gain a point from which to rally like self congratulating jackasses.

+1

User avatar
acrossthelake
Posts: 4432
Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 5:27 pm

Re: Only one not turned off by Biglaw hours?

Postby acrossthelake » Fri Jul 15, 2011 11:03 pm

Corwin wrote:
englawyer wrote:(5) socially and politically, programmers are the bottom of the barrel. MBA hot shots work downtown and do "business" stuff, and make a ton of money doing so. programmers work in some cube-farm out in the middle of suburbia and are viewed as interchangeable "resources" that can be re-assigned/replaced/etc at will.

LOL. And herein you reveal the reason why you seem to be so misguided when it comes to programmers. Whatever experience you have with programmer is clearly from the bottom of the barrel, likely at a large, slow moving company. Compare to Google, Facebook, and startups, where Engineering >> Management.


Microsoft fits #5...management>>>>engineering there. But, I suppose Microsoft *has* fallen to the bottom of the barrel. :lol:

User avatar
rayiner
Posts: 6184
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:43 am

Re: Only one not turned off by Biglaw hours?

Postby rayiner » Fri Jul 15, 2011 11:05 pm

I worked at a startup, so I know how the programming market works.

Corwin wrote:Do you actually know anything about tech employment? Most of the things you claim don't hold true in a lot of cases.


The things you mentioned apply to the 1% of programmers who have the qualifications to get Google, Facebook, etc. That's like the Wachtell of software companies.

Lateraling for programming usually results in a 20%+ raise. True, it is difficult to get a large raise within a company, but if you really want a lot of money you just switch companies a few times every 3-5 years.


Yeah you can ramp up pretty quickly this way, but you hit a cap pretty quickly above $100k where this stops working so well.

That can happen to certain types of programmers. It doesn't happen to anyone who went through a decent engineering program and was above the median (i.e. anyone competent).


Absolutely not true. A lot of established companies will staff up projects, run them for a few years, then lay everyone off when the project is done, whether they're competent or not. Had friends who this happened to at Lucent and Broadcom. Of course you can pretty easily find a new job if you have the qualifications, but moving around like that is a PITA and makes it harder to set down roots where you can shoot for management.

Competent programmers who are willing to put in strenuous hours are either highly compensated or they are working at a startup. Anyone who is working strenuous hours and getting paid an average about is probably well below the median or just really naive.


Dude this is not even close to true. Many software companies are total sweatshops. http://dir.salon.com/tech/feature/2004/ ... and_games/

Programmers who are capable of doing something truly kick ass start a startup, retain all their IP, and get rich. A lot of companies also payout bonuses and do profit sharing for patents. Programmers who get screwed out of their IP are working for a shitty company.


Doing a startup is much less practical, even for programmers, in capital-intensive fields. A guy with a great idea can do a web startup for nothing, but someone with a killer idea for software to improve semiconductor manufacturing cannot get the resources to do a startup. Instead, they work for a "shitty company" like IBM which pays them a $10,000 bonus for their idea which makes the company millions.


LOL. And herein you reveal the reason why you seem to be so misguided when it comes to programmers. Whatever experience you have with programmer is clearly from the bottom of the barrel, likely at a large, slow moving company. Compare to Google, Facebook, and startups, where Engineering >> Management.


There are a handful of internet-generation companies where engineering rules management. Most programmers do not work at such companies. They're employed at companies like IBM, Lockheed, etc, where pointy-haired MBAs definitely run the show. Large and slow moving they may be, but not exactly bottom of the barrel.


Programmers who want to own equity start a startup. I can move to California tomorrow and have a chance at a few million in VC funding after a couple of months. Programmers have the ultimate meritocracy. They can work hard, get VC funding, and succeed on their own merit. This is in sharp contrast to lawyers, who rarely start their own firms right out of law school and work for 6-10 years before they get equity.


"Just do startups bro!"

Seriously, if you have a stupid social networking idea yeah and VC-friendly credentials, head to Silicon Valley and pitch it. If you've got good ideas in any other area, good luck with that.

liLtuneChi
Posts: 109
Joined: Thu May 19, 2011 8:28 pm

Re: Only one not turned off by Biglaw hours?

Postby liLtuneChi » Fri Jul 15, 2011 11:18 pm

Peace of Mind wrote:I am turned off!

I want a life outside of my work... not necessarily a family... but I don't want to live and breathe biglaw that's for damn sure!


then find another job

I swear to god no one whines more than law students/lawyers. There are kids starving in Africa with no food and people here are complaining about working behind a desk in an air conditioned high rise office building doing relatively easy work compared to the rest of humanity (no physical labor) and getting paid money out the azz.

And people are still complaining???

Talk about lack of perspective. Ever heard of the notion no pain no gain?

If you want a body like Brad Pitt or Angelina Jolie, its gonna take alot of hard work. Similarly, if you want to earn 160K+ in your mid-20's while training on the job then its gonna take alot of hard work.

User avatar
yngblkgifted
Posts: 1049
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 8:57 pm

Re: Only one not turned off by Biglaw hours?

Postby yngblkgifted » Fri Jul 15, 2011 11:24 pm

liLtuneChi wrote:
Peace of Mind wrote:I am turned off!

I want a life outside of my work... not necessarily a family... but I don't want to live and breathe biglaw that's for damn sure!


then find another job

I swear to god no one whines more than law students/lawyers. There are kids starving in Africa with no food and people here are complaining about working behind a desk in an air conditioned high rise office building doing relatively easy work compared to the rest of humanity (no physical labor) and getting paid money out the azz.

And people are still complaining???

Talk about lack of perspective. Ever heard of the notion no pain no gain?

If you want a body like Brad Pitt or Angelina Jolie, its gonna take alot of hard work. Similarly, if you want to earn 160K+ in your mid-20's while training on the job then its gonna take alot of hard work.


+1.

I thought I was a whiny bitch and then I found this website. Thanks TLS!

liLtuneChi
Posts: 109
Joined: Thu May 19, 2011 8:28 pm

Re: Only one not turned off by Biglaw hours?

Postby liLtuneChi » Fri Jul 15, 2011 11:28 pm

dresden doll wrote:
liLtuneChi wrote:
I can't stand people who think that big $$$ doesn't come with sacrifies. If you want a 9-5 job and free weekends then don't do biglaw PERIOD. Go and work in the state AG office in Montana. Have fun raising your kids on $40k/yr.

I look like work no different than school. I'm not there to just get by and live comfortable. I'm there to be the BEST. I don't mind hard work and I realize that the hard work now will pay off in the future.

That should be the mentality of someone getting into biglaw. All this work-life balance BS makes me sick.


I find it more nauseating when people erect strawmen in order to gain a point from which to rally like self congratulating jackasses.


I'm sorry I'm breaking the mold as the disgruntled law student who always has to complain about everything. I come from a poor family where my folks had to work long hard hours each day of their lives dong back breaking work just to bring in the little money they could to put food on the table. I think its because most law students come from upper middle class to rich families where they don't know what real hard work is like.

Biglaw is NOT hard work. Hard work is having to clean bathrooms and kitchens for hours on end picking up after everyone's trash while making minimum wage. Biglaw is actually the high life. I may only be a summer but even if work conditions are just as you guys describe, its still alot better than 99% of the crap people in this country do as a profession.

I don't think there are enough people in threads like this who count their blessings and just realize what a sweet deal they have. Not many people are making 6 figures in the 20's while learning a skill that potentially will make then at the least 6 figures for the rest of their lives or at best 7 figures for the rest of their lives.

Just like I found people's complaints about law school a joke. I'm similarly finding that about law firm work. I just think people here just love to complain.

User avatar
rayiner
Posts: 6184
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:43 am

Re: Only one not turned off by Biglaw hours?

Postby rayiner » Fri Jul 15, 2011 11:30 pm

liLtuneChi wrote:
dresden doll wrote:
liLtuneChi wrote:
I can't stand people who think that big $$$ doesn't come with sacrifies. If you want a 9-5 job and free weekends then don't do biglaw PERIOD. Go and work in the state AG office in Montana. Have fun raising your kids on $40k/yr.

I look like work no different than school. I'm not there to just get by and live comfortable. I'm there to be the BEST. I don't mind hard work and I realize that the hard work now will pay off in the future.

That should be the mentality of someone getting into biglaw. All this work-life balance BS makes me sick.


I find it more nauseating when people erect strawmen in order to gain a point from which to rally like self congratulating jackasses.


I'm sorry I'm breaking the mold as the disgruntled law student who always has to complain about everything. I come from a poor family where my folks had to work long hard hours each day of their lives dong back breaking work just to bring in the little money they could to put food on the table. I think its because most law students come from upper middle class to rich families where they don't know what real hard work is like.

Biglaw is NOT hard work. Hard work is having to clean bathrooms and kitchens for hours on end picking up after everyone's trash while making minimum wage. Biglaw is actually the high life. I may only be a summer but even if work conditions are just as you guys describe, its still alot better than 99% of the crap people in this country do as a profession.

I don't think there are enough people in threads like this who count their blessings and just realize what a sweet deal they have. Not many people are making 6 figures in the 20's while learning a skill that potentially will make then at the least 6 figures for the rest of their lives or at best 7 figures for the rest of their lives.

Just like I found people's complaints about law school a joke. I'm similarly finding that about law firm work. I just think people here just love to complain.


Yeah my dad grew up in a village in Bangladesh. I'll let Dres give you her own qualifications.

Get off your god-damn high-horse.

liLtuneChi
Posts: 109
Joined: Thu May 19, 2011 8:28 pm

Re: Only one not turned off by Biglaw hours?

Postby liLtuneChi » Fri Jul 15, 2011 11:33 pm

rayiner wrote:
liLtuneChi wrote:
dresden doll wrote:
liLtuneChi wrote:
I can't stand people who think that big $$$ doesn't come with sacrifies. If you want a 9-5 job and free weekends then don't do biglaw PERIOD. Go and work in the state AG office in Montana. Have fun raising your kids on $40k/yr.

I look like work no different than school. I'm not there to just get by and live comfortable. I'm there to be the BEST. I don't mind hard work and I realize that the hard work now will pay off in the future.

That should be the mentality of someone getting into biglaw. All this work-life balance BS makes me sick.


I find it more nauseating when people erect strawmen in order to gain a point from which to rally like self congratulating jackasses.


I'm sorry I'm breaking the mold as the disgruntled law student who always has to complain about everything. I come from a poor family where my folks had to work long hard hours each day of their lives dong back breaking work just to bring in the little money they could to put food on the table. I think its because most law students come from upper middle class to rich families where they don't know what real hard work is like.

Biglaw is NOT hard work. Hard work is having to clean bathrooms and kitchens for hours on end picking up after everyone's trash while making minimum wage. Biglaw is actually the high life. I may only be a summer but even if work conditions are just as you guys describe, its still alot better than 99% of the crap people in this country do as a profession.

I don't think there are enough people in threads like this who count their blessings and just realize what a sweet deal they have. Not many people are making 6 figures in the 20's while learning a skill that potentially will make then at the least 6 figures for the rest of their lives or at best 7 figures for the rest of their lives.

Just like I found people's complaints about law school a joke. I'm similarly finding that about law firm work. I just think people here just love to complain.


Yeah my dad grew up in a village in Bangladesh. Got off your god-damn high-horse.


Dude this isn't some high horse. I'm just saying the what I believe and I feel it needs to be said to give most of the people around here a reality check. I know its more popular to just tow the party line and say crap about biglaw and law school, but I prefer to actually tell the truth.

This law firm deal is pretty f'in sweet and people who don't realize that lack proper perspective.




Return to “Forum for Law School Students”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: AT9, heythatslife, Yahoo [Bot] and 14 guests