Only one not turned off by Biglaw hours? Forum

[rayiner]

Yeah my dad grew up in a village in Bangladesh. Got off your god-damn high-horse.

Dude this isn't some high horse. I'm just saying the what I believe and I feel it needs to be said to give most of the people around here a reality check. I know its more popular to just tow the party line and say crap about biglaw and law school, but I prefer to actually tell the truth.

This law firm deal is pretty f'in sweet and people who don't realize that lack proper perspective.

If you look at my posts ITT, I've said much the same thing. You just manage to sound so much douchier about it.

[thecilent]

Ran here to say +1 to OP and liltunechi (who is one of my fav posters).

And lol @ whoever is saying people that are career-oriented and work lots of hours in the beg of their career are going to be alone. The two girls that I most want to be with right now are both going to med school and will be working same kind of hours. You can have great relationships even though careers come first..

Eta: Also I know so many people who work 80-hour weeks - in all sorts of different jobs - and don't get paid near 160k.

[englawyer]

LOL. And herein you reveal the reason why you seem to be so misguided when it comes to programmers. Whatever experience you have with programmer is clearly from the bottom of the barrel, likely at a large, slow moving company. Compare to Google, Facebook, and startups, where Engineering >> Management.

You are right for the like .05% of programmers that are co-founding startups. If you are one of those then clearly Engineering > Law School. But even at Google the trend I mentioned is largely in play. For example, see this job posting for "Principal, Business Operations and Strategy" in the Mountain View Office:

--LinkRemoved--

From the description it seems like a great position to lead to upper management. Strategy focused, working with top execs, etc. By your theory, they should be drooling all over intense Java skills or something like that. But what does the position actually say?

Professionally, you bring demonstrated experience in a consulting, investment banking or line-management role.

MBA or graduate degree in a management, technical, or engineering field preferred with strong academic record.

At least 4 years of experience at the post-graduate level at a leading management consulting firm or investment bank

Excellent written and oral communication and interpersonal skills.


I don't see any requirements for l33t programming skills. Those needs are filled by the drones that work for the people described in this post

[DoubleChecks]

Random interjection! lol decided to ask my pharm (Houston market) friends last night how much they make/hrs worked. $50ish+, 40 hr weeks, retail.

[td6624]

Ran here to say +1 to OP and liltunechi (who is one of my fav posters).

And lol @ whoever is saying people that are career-oriented and work lots of hours in the beg of their career are going to be alone. The two girls that I most want to be with right now are both going to med school and will be working same kind of hours. You can have great relationships even though careers come first..

Eta: Also I know so many people who work 80-hour weeks - in all sorts of different jobs - and don't get paid near 160k.

hm

[seatown12]

What's the benefit of making $160k if you have to cancel all your vacations, work weekends, and can't have kids? I'm not trying to be the richest dead guy.

lol @ being "the best." Nobody in the world at large thinks some anonymous $160k wage slave in a Manhattan high rise is "the best." Only your fellow capitalist cog Cornell grads will respect you.

But by all means keep on with this little circle jerk. LilChi I'm sure your parents are so proud of you for trading up to the bourgeois version of the life they suffered through. When they look back I'm sure their only regret was not making more per hour.

[sunynp]

If OP and others want to brag about their work addiction and think that is what an associate needs to succeed,or that it makes them better than the "wimps" who chose not to work that insane pace, then they will fit in well with a sweatshop big law firm. Things will go great, until they don't make partner, but then they will probably be able to find another firm where they can work the same hours.

Working hard isn't an accomplishment. Pretty much anyone can work really hard if they choose that is how they want or ,more often, need to work to manage their lives. Taxi drivers in New York City work insane hours too. Often they work 12 hours shifts 7 days a week. They are already at 84 hours working. You don't think driving a cab in the city is stressful or pressured? I have friends who grew up on dairy farms that worked more than that in the summer (4am until 8 or 9pm) and they had to get up at 4am - every single morning, every day of the week- to help milk cows. They never got a vacation at all ever. Just because you get paid more to work grueling hours as a law associate than a cab driver or a dairy farmer doesn't make you a better person or guarantee you will have a better life.

If you do find yourself working these hours, make sure to insist on time off if you find your hair falling out. Here is an article on lawyer burnout you might find helpful http://www.jdsupra.com/post/documentVie ... da734caad0 If you don't read it, I will point out that a partner is mentioned as living on 4 5 hour energy drinks every day because he doesn't have time to sleep.

Some people can handle these hours with aplomb. Those associates who do are possibly among the ones most likely to make partner. Most people can't physically or emotionally cope with years of working at this pace. So just keep an eye on your health because noone else is going to do so.

[dresden doll]

I'm sorry I'm breaking the mold as the disgruntled law student who always has to complain about everything. I come from a poor family where my folks had to work long hard hours each day of their lives dong back breaking work just to bring in the little money they could to put food on the table. I think its because most law students come from upper middle class to rich families where they don't know what real hard work is like.

Biglaw is NOT hard work. Hard work is having to clean bathrooms and kitchens for hours on end picking up after everyone's trash while making minimum wage. Biglaw is actually the high life. I may only be a summer but even if work conditions are just as you guys describe, its still alot better than 99% of the crap people in this country do as a profession.

I don't think there are enough people in threads like this who count their blessings and just realize what a sweet deal they have. Not many people are making 6 figures in the 20's while learning a skill that potentially will make then at the least 6 figures for the rest of their lives or at best 7 figures for the rest of their lives.

Just like I found people's complaints about law school a joke. I'm similarly finding that about law firm work. I just think people here just love to complain.

I grew up in a war ravaged country and spent a portion of my childhood in the midst of war. We lacked electricity for months and had to stand in long lines for water more often than I care to recall. My mother never managed to get employed again after her firm was bombed to the ground and my father wound up working third shifts at a hotel to pull us through financially.

You want to babble perspective? Talk to someone else. And try to dismount the high horse when you do so.

[vanwinkle]

I'm sorry I'm breaking the mold as the disgruntled law student who always has to complain about everything. I come from a poor family where my folks had to work long hard hours each day of their lives dong back breaking work just to bring in the little money they could to put food on the table. I think its because most law students come from upper middle class to rich families where they don't know what real hard work is like.

Biglaw is NOT hard work. Hard work is having to clean bathrooms and kitchens for hours on end picking up after everyone's trash while making minimum wage. Biglaw is actually the high life. I may only be a summer but even if work conditions are just as you guys describe, its still alot better than 99% of the crap people in this country do as a profession.

I don't think there are enough people in threads like this who count their blessings and just realize what a sweet deal they have. Not many people are making 6 figures in the 20's while learning a skill that potentially will make then at the least 6 figures for the rest of their lives or at best 7 figures for the rest of their lives.

Just like I found people's complaints about law school a joke. I'm similarly finding that about law firm work. I just think people here just love to complain.

I grew up in a war ravaged country and spent a portion of my childhood in the midst of war. We lacked electricity for months and had to stand in long lines for water more often than I care to recall. My mother never managed to get employed again after her firm was bombed to the ground and my father wound up working third shifts at a hotel to pull us through financially.

You want to babble perspective? Talk to someone else. And try to dismount the high horse when you do so.

Boom.

[vanwinkle]

If OP and others want to brag about their work addiction and think that is what an associate needs to succeed,or that it makes them better than the "wimps" who chose not to work that insane pace, then they will fit in well with a sweatshop big law firm. Things will go great, until they don't make partner, but then they will probably be able to find another firm where they can work the same hours.

Some people can handle these hours with aplomb. Those associates who do are possibly among the ones most likely to make partner.

Lots of people contradict themselves on here, but it takes talent to do it this well within the same post.

The righteous indignation on both sides is just sad.

[sunynp]

Sadly, the people that grind out hours will never, ever be better than the brilliant lawyers who so easily get their work done without breaking a sweat. Usually these brilliant people don't have to work crazy hours to manage their work. Usually they get the best work and the partners will make sure to not overwork them. Those people exist and they will make partner over a grinder every time.

[Renzo]

I'm sorry I'm breaking the mold as the disgruntled law student who always has to complain about everything. I come from a poor family where my folks had to work long hard hours each day of their lives dong back breaking work just to bring in the little money they could to put food on the table. I think its because most law students come from upper middle class to rich families where they don't know what real hard work is like.

Biglaw is NOT hard work. Hard work is having to clean bathrooms and kitchens for hours on end picking up after everyone's trash while making minimum wage. Biglaw is actually the high life. I may only be a summer but even if work conditions are just as you guys describe, its still alot better than 99% of the crap people in this country do as a profession.

I don't think there are enough people in threads like this who count their blessings and just realize what a sweet deal they have. Not many people are making 6 figures in the 20's while learning a skill that potentially will make then at the least 6 figures for the rest of their lives or at best 7 figures for the rest of their lives.

Just like I found people's complaints about law school a joke. I'm similarly finding that about law firm work. I just think people here just love to complain.

I grew up in a war ravaged country and spent a portion of my childhood in the midst of war. We lacked electricity for months and had to stand in long lines for water more often than I care to recall. My mother never managed to get employed again after her firm was bombed to the ground and my father wound up working third shifts at a hotel to pull us through financially.

You want to babble perspective? Talk to someone else. And try to dismount the high horse when you do so.

You complete me.

[sunynp]

I'm sorry I'm breaking the mold as the disgruntled law student who always has to complain about everything. I come from a poor family where my folks had to work long hard hours each day of their lives dong back breaking work just to bring in the little money they could to put food on the table. I think its because most law students come from upper middle class to rich families where they don't know what real hard work is like.

Biglaw is NOT hard work. Hard work is having to clean bathrooms and kitchens for hours on end picking up after everyone's trash while making minimum wage. Biglaw is actually the high life. I may only be a summer but even if work conditions are just as you guys describe, its still alot better than 99% of the crap people in this country do as a profession.

I don't think there are enough people in threads like this who count their blessings and just realize what a sweet deal they have. Not many people are making 6 figures in the 20's while learning a skill that potentially will make then at the least 6 figures for the rest of their lives or at best 7 figures for the rest of their lives.

Just like I found people's complaints about law school a joke. I'm similarly finding that about law firm work. I just think people here just love to complain.

I grew up in a war ravaged country and spent a portion of my childhood in the midst of war. We lacked electricity for months and had to stand in long lines for water more often than I care to recall. My mother never managed to get employed again after her firm was bombed to the ground and my father wound up working third shifts at a hotel to pull us through financially.

You want to babble perspective? Talk to someone else. And try to dismount the high horse when you do so.

Thanks for that. You are awesome.

[fingersxd]

If you want a 9-5 job and free weekends then don't do biglaw PERIOD. Go and work in the state AG office in Montana. Have fun raising your kids on $40k/yr.

FWIW, 40k goes pretty far in Montana.

[fingersxd]

If you want a body like Brad Pitt or Angelina Jolie, its gonna take alot of hard work.

...and unless your genetics are just right, it won't happen anyway. Sounds like the partnership track.

[Kronk]

Where do people get the 40k impression from? The office I'm at this summer is a government job and the entry-level is 57k with decent raises every year or two until you're sitting at 70k+ in a market where 78k is the equivalent of 160k in NYC. Very few government jobs pay 40k. If they pay that little, it's probably in a place like South Dakota or Idaho where that's the equivalent of $100k+ in NYC. There are places where you can literally rent a comfortable 2BR apartment for $600-800. Here in Denver, you can rent a really nice 2BR for $1200 and do just fine on $60k/yr.

Pretty easy to live most places on 60k. The only places where you'd struggle with a family are NYC, SF, San Jose, Los Angeles, and maybe D.C. Even in those places, you could live a little further off like Oakland and Brooklyn.

[dailygrind]

Where do people get the 40k impression from? The office I'm at this summer is a government job and the entry-level is 57k with decent raises every year or two until you're sitting at 70k+ in a market where 78k is the equivalent of 160k in NYC. Very few government jobs pay 40k. If they pay that little, it's probably in a place like South Dakota or Idaho where that's the equivalent of $100k+ in NYC. There are places where you can literally rent a comfortable 2BR apartment for $600-800. Here in Denver, you can rent a really nice 2BR for $1200 and do just fine on $60k/yr.

Pretty easy to live most places on 60k. The only places where you'd struggle with a family are NYC, SF, San Jose, Los Angeles, and maybe D.C. Even in those places, you could live a little further off like Oakland and Brooklyn.

I kinda see the extra loot as disaster insurance/early retirement potential. Agree that you can make it just fine w/o going big law, though.

[leobowski]

If you want a 9-5 job and free weekends then don't do biglaw PERIOD. Go and work in the state AG office in Montana. Have fun raising your kids on $40k/yr.

FWIW, 40k goes pretty far in Montana.

Amen. Plenty of people have biglaw creds but prefer a solid 8-5 as a DA, PD, assistant AG, etc. ACLU attorneys have astounding credentials and work for pennies. The biglaw or bust mentality on TLS never ceases to amaze me.

[sunynp]

If OP and others want to brag about their work addiction and think that is what an associate needs to succeed,or that it makes them better than the "wimps" who chose not to work that insane pace, then they will fit in well with a sweatshop big law firm. Things will go great, until they don't make partner, but then they will probably be able to find another firm where they can work the same hours.

Some people can handle these hours with aplomb. Those associates who do are possibly among the ones most likely to make partner.

Lots of people contradict themselves on here, but it takes talent to do it this well within the same post.

The righteous indignation on both sides is just sad.

Ack. You're right. Sorry I wasn't clear.

Most grinders break down because they are human. Some people have amazing energy. The hours don't destroy these people. They still won't make partner (first use). Among grinders, they have a better shot at partnership than the grinders who get sick or can't take it.

Being a grinder will not get you partnership any more than studying insane hours in la w school means you will be top 10%.

Sorry if I come across as having righteous indignation. I don't care if work addicts think the number of hours they work is something to be admired. They will fit right in with biglaw culture and probably be used up by it. Mostly I wanted to remind people to look out for their health. The biglaw culture does not operate with your best interest at heart. You have to take care of yourself.

[vanwinkle]

Where do people get the 40k impression from? The office I'm at this summer is a government job and the entry-level is 57k with decent raises every year or two until you're sitting at 70k+ in a market where 78k is the equivalent of 160k in NYC. Very few government jobs pay 40k. If they pay that little, it's probably in a place like South Dakota or Idaho where that's the equivalent of $100k+ in NYC.

As of a couple years ago, public defenders in NYC start at $45K/yr. On the prosecution side, new ADAs start around $50K/yr. And both jobs are incredibly competitive and hard to get.

Anyone who thinks there's an abundance of decently-paying PI jobs is at least slightly deluded. Sure, there are government jobs paying $60K/yr or more out there, but they're vastly outnumbered by 1) qualified and interested applicants and 2) sub-$60k opportunities.

[liLtuneChi]

I grew up in a war ravaged country and spent a portion of my childhood in the midst of war. We lacked electricity for months and had to stand in long lines for water more often than I care to recall. My mother never managed to get employed again after her firm was bombed to the ground and my father wound up working third shifts at a hotel to pull us through financially.

You want to babble perspective? Talk to someone else. And try to dismount the high horse when you do so.

If any of that is true (which I doubt), then you should be on my side.

My point is simple. If your gonna whine then get the hell outta biglaw. No one is forcing you to work for 160k a year. There are much worse jobs or much less pay than working at a large law firm.

You of all people (if what you are saying is true) should realize that.

[09042014]

Electrical engineers generally do work 9-5.

Programmers bullshit. They slack off then work for 20 hours straight. I should have done programming.

[09042014]

Also the hours of big law show how TTT lawyers are. Some banker makes you his bitch and demands his work be done by monday.

If lawyers were worth anything we'd work on our own time, 9-5.

[LawWeb]

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[094320]

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