Sabotage Stories

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shepdawg
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Sabotage Stories

Postby shepdawg » Sat Jul 02, 2011 6:40 pm

What is the biggest law school sabotage move you have witnessed, committed, or heard directly from the saboteur?

No rumors or urban legends.

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thesealocust
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Re: Sabotage Stories

Postby thesealocust » Sat Jul 02, 2011 6:45 pm

I have never seen it or heard of it at my school or any other.

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Bronte
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Re: Sabotage Stories

Postby Bronte » Sat Jul 02, 2011 6:56 pm

thesealocust wrote:I have never seen it or heard of it at my school or any other.

goodolgil
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Re: Sabotage Stories

Postby goodolgil » Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:00 pm

Bronte wrote:
thesealocust wrote:I have never seen it or heard of it at my school or any other.


Around finals time last semester, someone's notebook and tabbed FRCP got swiped from the library. Person left his/her wallet, casebooks, etc.. there also and those weren't taken.

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Glock
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Re: Sabotage Stories

Postby Glock » Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:05 pm

From the saboteur: s/he hid a book that was necessary for answering a question on some BS writing class assignment the writing professor gave his/her class.

The person was very careful about their strategy. If you are the only person who answers the question and the book is missing- guess who did it? S/he made sure to make sure he left the answer blank. The professor found out the book was missing (due to complaints) and the 4-5 people who already found the book and answered the question became the suspects. S/he did it for the hilarity, not really to change grades.

It was not me and was some years ago. All parties are out of law school.

merc280
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Re: Sabotage Stories

Postby merc280 » Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:25 pm

The interviewer for Vanderbilt admissions told me she knew of some people at UT who got their outlines stolen-tore up close to finals.

flcath
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Re: Sabotage Stories

Postby flcath » Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:27 pm

merc280 wrote:The interviewer for Vanderbilt admissions told me she knew of some people at UT who got their outlines stolen-tore up close to finals.

Ah, but who in this story is the real saboteur?!

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quixotical
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Re: Sabotage Stories

Postby quixotical » Sat Jul 02, 2011 8:22 pm

flcath wrote:
merc280 wrote:The interviewer for Vanderbilt admissions told me she knew of some people at UT who got their outlines stolen-tore up close to finals.

Ah, but who in this story is the real saboteur?!


:lol: :lol: :lol:

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BriaTharen
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Re: Sabotage Stories

Postby BriaTharen » Sat Jul 02, 2011 8:29 pm

quixotical wrote:
flcath wrote:
merc280 wrote:The interviewer for Vanderbilt admissions told me she knew of some people at UT who got their outlines stolen-tore up close to finals.

Ah, but who in this story is the real saboteur?!


:lol: :lol: :lol:

mintypineapple
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Re: Sabotage Stories

Postby mintypineapple » Sun Jul 03, 2011 1:41 pm

Heard from a friend who goes to LS down south that the 2 biggest gunners in the section took their own form of attendance after noticing multiple people missing from class one day. They saw people's names signed in on the attendance sheet and saw they were not in class. These gunners wrote down every person who was not in class but had their names signed and went to the professor with the list. 10 people got screwed over and had academic violations written up against them, plus a half or whole letter grade lowered. Apparently these gunners got along with everyone in the section before this; NO ONE talked to them after that for the rest of the year.

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bceagles182
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Re: Sabotage Stories

Postby bceagles182 » Sun Jul 03, 2011 1:45 pm

That's a bit overboard but I don't see anything wrong with it. People shouldn't get credit for going to class if they aren't in class. That is cheating.

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BriaTharen
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Re: Sabotage Stories

Postby BriaTharen » Sun Jul 03, 2011 1:56 pm

bceagles182 wrote:That's a bit overboard but I don't see anything wrong with it. People shouldn't get credit for going to class if they aren't in class. That is cheating.

Yeah, I have to agree. When your LS has a policy that if you miss X number of classes you get an automatic fail, getting someone to sign in for you when you aren't there is cheating.

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BriaTharen
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Re: Sabotage Stories

Postby BriaTharen » Sun Jul 03, 2011 2:04 pm

The most that really happens around my LS is people taking the E&Es out of the reserve room and hiding them on the 4th floor of the library.

Though, there was a girl during fall semester that reported one of her classmates for cheating on the LRW memo because the guy asked one of his friends about the proper placement of a comma in a Bluebook cite.

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dailygrind
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Re: Sabotage Stories

Postby dailygrind » Sun Jul 03, 2011 2:05 pm

BriaTharen wrote:
bceagles182 wrote:That's a bit overboard but I don't see anything wrong with it. People shouldn't get credit for going to class if they aren't in class. That is cheating.

Yeah, I have to agree. When your LS has a policy that if you miss X number of classes you get an automatic fail, getting someone to sign in for you when you aren't there is cheating.


It is, but the policy is stupid in the first place. We're all adults here and should be able to decide where to invest our time; plus it's hard to believe that the nonattendance of some students actually harmed the gunners. I can definitely see why they'd be turned into pariahs.

lawgod
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Re: Sabotage Stories

Postby lawgod » Sun Jul 03, 2011 2:08 pm

mintypineapple wrote:Heard from a friend who goes to LS down south that the 2 biggest gunners in the section took their own form of attendance after noticing multiple people missing from class one day. They saw people's names signed in on the attendance sheet and saw they were not in class. These gunners wrote down every person who was not in class but had their names signed and went to the professor with the list. 10 people got screwed over and had academic violations written up against them, plus a half or whole letter grade lowered. Apparently these gunners got along with everyone in the section before this; NO ONE talked to them after that for the rest of the year.


Pretty dumb of them. They should be encouraging everyone to cut class.

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BriaTharen
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Re: Sabotage Stories

Postby BriaTharen » Sun Jul 03, 2011 2:13 pm

dailygrind wrote:
BriaTharen wrote:
bceagles182 wrote:That's a bit overboard but I don't see anything wrong with it. People shouldn't get credit for going to class if they aren't in class. That is cheating.

Yeah, I have to agree. When your LS has a policy that if you miss X number of classes you get an automatic fail, getting someone to sign in for you when you aren't there is cheating.


It is, but the policy is stupid in the first place. We're all adults here and should be able to decide where to invest our time; plus it's hard to believe that the nonattendance of some students actually harmed the gunners. I can definitely see why they'd be turned into pariahs, and I would've supported their being ostracized.

Oh, I agree. The policy is ridiculous. And I can definitely say I wouldn't have done what the gunners did. Mostly because I sign the attendance sheet and pass it on; I don't sit there examining it. But despite how ridiculous and over the top their actions, it's hard to say they aren't to some degree justified. It is cheating.

Most of the people who miss to the degree they would be worried about failing are not very high in the class. But there is one guy who used up almost every single one of his absences in all the classes, and he's in the top 15%. You can just never tell honestly, but for the most part, if there was no attendance policy, it is natural selection.

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Sauer Grapes
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Re: Sabotage Stories

Postby Sauer Grapes » Sun Jul 03, 2011 2:22 pm

BriaTharen wrote:
dailygrind wrote:
BriaTharen wrote:
bceagles182 wrote:That's a bit overboard but I don't see anything wrong with it. People shouldn't get credit for going to class if they aren't in class. That is cheating.

Yeah, I have to agree. When your LS has a policy that if you miss X number of classes you get an automatic fail, getting someone to sign in for you when you aren't there is cheating.


It is, but the policy is stupid in the first place. We're all adults here and should be able to decide where to invest our time; plus it's hard to believe that the nonattendance of some students actually harmed the gunners. I can definitely see why they'd be turned into pariahs, and I would've supported their being ostracized.

Oh, I agree. The policy is ridiculous. And I can definitely say I wouldn't have done what the gunners did. Mostly because I sign the attendance sheet and pass it on; I don't sit there examining it. But despite how ridiculous and over the top their actions, it's hard to say they aren't to some degree justified. It is cheating.

Most of the people who miss to the degree they would be worried about failing are not very high in the class. But there is one guy who used up almost every single one of his absences in all the classes, and he's in the top 15%. You can just never tell honestly, but for the most part, if there was no attendance policy, it is natural selection.

While I would never have someone sign my name, and would never do that for someone else, it is a dick move to turn someone in for it. These gunners will have trouble in the real world if they keep this attitude. Business gets done by not arguing over every point and if you make sure someone pays every single time they are wrong, then you won't have any friends or clients. There are judgment calls in life, and they failed this one.

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Glock
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Re: Sabotage Stories

Postby Glock » Sun Jul 03, 2011 2:25 pm

I wonder if the people who got busted and failed were factored into the curve? I doubt it. The attendance hawks probably just removed the bottom of the curve from the class (the people who are never there), fucking themselves in the process.

Snitching on cheaters in that circumstance isn't really unjust, it was probably just counterproductive.

ETA:I missed the non-attenders only had their grades lowered a half a letter grade. Total effect: hated, everyone shows up to class, does not help you get a better grade. I guess it was possible they lowered raw scores pre-curve, but I doubt it. Would not make sense as a punishment.

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bceagles182
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Re: Sabotage Stories

Postby bceagles182 » Sun Jul 03, 2011 3:02 pm

You should generally have faith in your ability to beat out people who never show up to class on the curve, so I agree that it doesn't make sense to turn them in. At the same time, most schools have honor codes that require students to report all honor code violations that they are aware of. I wouldn't do it because I don't really believe in snitching, but I can't really blame them for doing so. It probably harmed the snitches in the long run, but with that said, I've had classes where attendance was a complete waste of time because the professor tested material that she did not cover in class, and the best grades came from those who relied heavily on hornbooks. In that type of class, fraudulently having others mark your name on the attendance sheet would absolutely have been an unfair advantage (you wouldn't have to keep up with the readings to avoid looking like an idiot when cold-called), and it would be unjust to allow people to do so.

Mandatory attendance is a dumb policy, but the ABA has recently placed increased emphasis on attendance, so you can't really blame the school.

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BriaTharen
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Re: Sabotage Stories

Postby BriaTharen » Sun Jul 03, 2011 3:08 pm

bceagles182 wrote:You should generally have faith in your ability to beat out people who never show up to class on the curve, so I agree that it doesn't make sense to turn them in. At the same time, most schools have honor codes that require students to report all honor code violations that they are aware of. I wouldn't do it because I don't really believe in snitching, but I can't really blame them for doing so. It probably harmed the snitches in the long run, but with that said, I've had classes where attendance was a complete waste of time because the professor tested material that she did not cover in class, and the best grades came from those who relied heavily on hornbooks. In that type of class, fraudulently having others mark your name on the attendance sheet would absolutely have been an unfair advantage (you wouldn't have to keep up with the readings to avoid looking like an idiot when cold-called), and it would be unjust to allow people to do so.

Mandatory attendance is a dumb policy, but the ABA has recently placed increased emphasis on attendance, so you can't really blame the school.

This is the exact situation I'm talking about. There is one professor who is notorious for saying almost nothing of value in class; the people who do well are the ones who study the treatise he wrote, and very little else. His classes are usually also at 7:30 or 8am.

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Holly Golightly
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Re: Sabotage Stories

Postby Holly Golightly » Sun Jul 03, 2011 3:14 pm

Attendance was pointless for both of my 8:45am classes this year. Luckily none of my profs except CLR actually took attendance.

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dailygrind
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Re: Sabotage Stories

Postby dailygrind » Sun Jul 03, 2011 3:14 pm

BriaTharen wrote:
bceagles182 wrote:You should generally have faith in your ability to beat out people who never show up to class on the curve, so I agree that it doesn't make sense to turn them in. At the same time, most schools have honor codes that require students to report all honor code violations that they are aware of. I wouldn't do it because I don't really believe in snitching, but I can't really blame them for doing so. It probably harmed the snitches in the long run, but with that said, I've had classes where attendance was a complete waste of time because the professor tested material that she did not cover in class, and the best grades came from those who relied heavily on hornbooks. In that type of class, fraudulently having others mark your name on the attendance sheet would absolutely have been an unfair advantage (you wouldn't have to keep up with the readings to avoid looking like an idiot when cold-called), and it would be unjust to allow people to do so.

Mandatory attendance is a dumb policy, but the ABA has recently placed increased emphasis on attendance, so you can't really blame the school.

This is the exact situation I'm talking about. There is one professor who is notorious for saying almost nothing of value in class; the people who do well are the ones who study the treatise he wrote, and very little else. His classes are usually also at 7:30 or 8am.


Touche.

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bceagles182
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Re: Sabotage Stories

Postby bceagles182 » Sun Jul 03, 2011 3:23 pm

This discussion reminds me of:

"Out of order, I'll show you out of order. You don't know what out of order is, Mr. Trask. I'd show you, but I'm too old, I'm too tired, I'm too fkin' blind. If I were the man I was five years ago, I'd take a FLAMETHROWER to this place! Out of order? Who the hell do you think you're talkin' to? I've been around, you know? There was a time I could see. And I have seen. Boys like these, younger than these, their arms torn out, their legs ripped off. But there isn't nothin' like the sight of an amputated spirit. There is no prosthetic for that. You think you're merely sending this splendid foot soldier back home to Oregon with his tail between his legs, but I say you are... executin' his soul! And why? Because he's not a Bairdman. Bairdmen. You hurt this boy, you're gonna be Baird bums, the lot of ya. And Harry, Jimmy, Trent, wherever you are out there, F YOU TOO!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dH4p9BQ3V9o

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TTH
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Re: Sabotage Stories

Postby TTH » Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:32 am

bceagles182 wrote:This discussion reminds me of:

"Out of order, I'll show you out of order. You don't know what out of order is, Mr. Trask. I'd show you, but I'm too old, I'm too tired, I'm too fkin' blind. If I were the man I was five years ago, I'd take a FLAMETHROWER to this place! Out of order? Who the hell do you think you're talkin' to? I've been around, you know? There was a time I could see. And I have seen. Boys like these, younger than these, their arms torn out, their legs ripped off. But there isn't nothin' like the sight of an amputated spirit. There is no prosthetic for that. You think you're merely sending this splendid foot soldier back home to Oregon with his tail between his legs, but I say you are... executin' his soul! And why? Because he's not a Bairdman. Bairdmen. You hurt this boy, you're gonna be Baird bums, the lot of ya. And Harry, Jimmy, Trent, wherever you are out there, F YOU TOO!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dH4p9BQ3V9o


Excellent movie.

Not really sabotage for grade purposes, but a now-former 2L at my law school is facing felony charges for stealing and selling thousands of dollars worth of books from the library.

nickwar
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Re: Sabotage Stories

Postby nickwar » Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:37 am

The book-stealing-to-sell-back thing appears to happen a lot in law school. It's a dirty, dirty move.




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