Patent Bar Exam

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futurelawyer413
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Re: Patent Bar Exam

Postby futurelawyer413 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:07 am

Lycurgus wrote:Do you know how major the changes are?


Bilski and KSR are now tested, i believe. along with some revisions in the MPEP

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Lycurgus
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Re: Patent Bar Exam

Postby Lycurgus » Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:24 pm

tea_drinker wrote:
silly101 wrote:i plan on taking mine in aug as well

so to apply we just need official transcripts and $$ right? am i missing anything else


I think so unless you got traffic tickets or other violations, in which cases you will need a court record.


Lycurgus wrote:Do you know how major the changes are?


This is the change http://www.uspto.gov/ip/boards/oed/exam ... update.jsp

I don't know how much they will include in new exams though.


I am looking at the application now and it seems they want me to include my speeding tickets. I have 2 on my record but I brought the tickets up in front of a magistrate and he dismissed both. Do I still have to report this on my application? Also do you know if things like speeding tickets have ever made them deny you entry to the exam?

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fatduck
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Re: Patent Bar Exam

Postby fatduck » Sun Jun 26, 2011 5:35 pm

Lycurgus wrote:
tea_drinker wrote:
silly101 wrote:i plan on taking mine in aug as well

so to apply we just need official transcripts and $$ right? am i missing anything else


I think so unless you got traffic tickets or other violations, in which cases you will need a court record.


Lycurgus wrote:Do you know how major the changes are?


This is the change http://www.uspto.gov/ip/boards/oed/exam ... update.jsp

I don't know how much they will include in new exams though.


I am looking at the application now and it seems they want me to include my speeding tickets. I have 2 on my record but I brought the tickets up in front of a magistrate and he dismissed both. Do I still have to report this on my application? Also do you know if things like speeding tickets have ever made them deny you entry to the exam?

i had one speeding ticket over $100 (i think that was the threshold, right?) i called the courthouse and got a copy of the citation, sent that in, and it was fine. fwiw, it was a $900 ticket for going 115 in a 55. i don't think they really care.

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tea_drinker
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Re: Patent Bar Exam

Postby tea_drinker » Sun Jun 26, 2011 10:29 pm

fatduck wrote:
Lycurgus wrote:
I am looking at the application now and it seems they want me to include my speeding tickets. I have 2 on my record but I brought the tickets up in front of a magistrate and he dismissed both. Do I still have to report this on my application? Also do you know if things like speeding tickets have ever made them deny you entry to the exam?

i had one speeding ticket over $100 (i think that was the threshold, right?) i called the courthouse and got a copy of the citation, sent that in, and it was fine. fwiw, it was a $900 ticket for going 115 in a 55. i don't think they really care.


Echoing on what fatduck already said. You should call the court and ask if they have any official record of your incidence. If they do, you should get it and send it in. If not, then call the OED. They may ask you to write a statement, but it shouldn't be that hard to do.

I think the USPTO is more interested in seeing you disclosing these information. They don't concern much on what you did that got you the ticket(s).

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BriaTharen
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Re: Patent Bar Exam

Postby BriaTharen » Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:30 am

Something important to remember if you are purchasing materials or just looking online-- the test was recently changed in April 2011 to add new material. I'm using PatBar, which has been updated for the changes, and while I am not certain about PLI (its $1000+ price tag kept me away from that one), I'd be willing to bet it has as well. I'm not sure about Bullseye.

This is something really important to consider if you are planning on buying a cheaper version of PLI by buying it used on eBay, since probably the majority of those being sold on eBay are not the materials that have been updated.

silly101
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Re: Patent Bar Exam

Postby silly101 » Mon Jul 11, 2011 9:50 pm

took about 2.5 weeks for the PTO to approve my application. yay for fast turnaround

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skw
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Re: Patent Bar Exam

Postby skw » Tue Jul 12, 2011 5:03 pm

So I am finished with substantive prep and have reviewed all the MPEP changes and the new materials on the USPTO site. MPEP changes are outlined in the blue pages section of the version you can download off the USPTO website. There is some info that will probably be tested out of the PDFs off the PTO site, but they aren't all that long and are easy to understand once you've got the main concepts down from studying with whatever prep course you are using. I echo the idea that ONLY prep companies see the changes to the exam as 'major' and warranting a brand new course. In PLI's case specifically, they changed their course delivery model to prevent resale of the materials. Now instead of receiving hard copies, you get login info, so you are essentially renting the course instead of buying it. This prevents you from reselling it when you are done.

In addition to preparing for the test, I am meeting with (phone/lunch/coffee) 2-3 patent attorneys per week for networking. Not one of them has seen a dramatic change to how they practice before the USPTO, so I find it implausible that the test itself can be all that earth shatteringly different. I've directly asked a few of these attorneys for their opinions and they agree that it sounds like a marketing strategy by prep companys to focus on these supposed dramatic differences in the new test.

I'll let you guys know how I do and whether my opinion is changed once I sit for the exam.

silly101
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Re: Patent Bar Exam

Postby silly101 » Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:36 pm

skw wrote:So I am finished with substantive prep and have reviewed all the MPEP changes and the new materials on the USPTO site. MPEP changes are outlined in the blue pages section of the version you can download off the USPTO website. There is some info that will probably be tested out of the PDFs off the PTO site, but they aren't all that long and are easy to understand once you've got the main concepts down from studying with whatever prep course you are using. I echo the idea that ONLY prep companies see the changes to the exam as 'major' and warranting a brand new course. In PLI's case specifically, they changed their course delivery model to prevent resale of the materials. Now instead of receiving hard copies, you get login info, so you are essentially renting the course instead of buying it. This prevents you from reselling it when you are done.

In addition to preparing for the test, I am meeting with (phone/lunch/coffee) 2-3 patent attorneys per week for networking. Not one of them has seen a dramatic change to how they practice before the USPTO, so I find it implausible that the test itself can be all that earth shatteringly different. I've directly asked a few of these attorneys for their opinions and they agree that it sounds like a marketing strategy by prep companys to focus on these supposed dramatic differences in the new test.

I'll let you guys know how I do and whether my opinion is changed once I sit for the exam.


thanks for the analysis
im on the post-course stuff for PLI, trying to solidify my knowledge of this stuff..ho hum

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fatduck
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Re: Patent Bar Exam

Postby fatduck » Sat Jul 23, 2011 7:07 pm

so i don't really post here any more but i thought y'all might like a trip report from my patent bar exam last week, since there's precious little information about the post-april 2011-changes test on tls/the internet.

i took it last week and passed, and i felt it was pretty easy (though you don't get your score, so maybe i only passed by 1 question, who knows). for prep i used the Bullseye materials (check my post earlier in this thread for more info), and past exam questions. i only took one full, timed practice exam, because holy shit those things are long. i did a couple timed sessions where i just took one half.

i read through the outline in the Bullseye materials once, and it's fairly useful, but after that i pretty much just drilled on past test questions. i put together a pdf file with a [url="https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B1CjUcaS_3OjYWM2Mjk4MmEtZGE5Zi00ODdhLWI3ZmYtMTQ3NWU4YzE0ZTU4&hl=en_US"]ton of past exam questions[/url]. some of the prompts/explanations got cut off, but it's good for just burning through questions quickly.

i got a lot of repeats on exam day, probably close to 1/3 of the questions were ones i'd seen before. some i knew the answer verbatim, but others i just remembered where to look in the MPEP, or checked anyway just to double-check my memory. i didn't focus on memorizing questions/answers in my study, i just tried to make a guess at the answer and then went over the explanation, focusing on why the right answer was right and why the wrong answers were wrong. there are really only so many ways they can ask questions about some of the more basic rules, like 102/103, 112, etc, so a lot of the rationales for right/wrong answers will clue you in on similar questions.

the makeup of the questions was pretty similar to the most recent exams (2002/2003), with a lot of focus on PCT, USC 102/103, USC 112, appeals. some of the questions with new material took a little while, but i found that i had plenty of time saved by knowing a lot of repeat questions cold. you'll have access to those supplemental PDFs in the April test changes announcement (guidelines for applying KSR, Bilski, etc). read over those, but there aren't too many of those questions and i only had trouble with a couple. for the most part, brute force PDF searching will usually get you the answer eventually.

there were also a few questions about EFS-Web, the electronic file submission system, which i didn't even think to read about prior to the exam. they weren't too tough, and were pretty similar to the old questions about faxes (what can/can't be submitted, how does a filing date get accorded). there was a question about electronic signatures but it was an easy MPEP lookup.

all in all, i thought the test was pretty easy. i finished the first half with a ton of time remaining, close to an hour, and went through and double-checked every question that wasn't an absolute certainty. i did what several people have recommended and used the 15-minute "tutorial" time to make columns of 1-25, 26-50 on a sheet of paper to make notes. i just put question marks next to ones i wanted to check again, sometimes with a little note about what i wanted to double-check, to refresh my memory when i returned. don't do what i did and number the second page 51-100, because the PM section is also numbered 1-50 :P the second half was harder (or maybe i was just getting tired), but i still ended up clicking end test with about 20 minutes remaining. i found that time wasn't really an issue and i could do a lot of MPEP searching. ymmv.

i'll check back for a few days if anyone has specific questions.

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skw
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Re: Patent Bar Exam

Postby skw » Sat Jul 23, 2011 8:45 pm

Thank you so much for posting your experience. I am sitting for the test in about a month and have been studying my head off and your post really helped ease my anxiety level. I'm using 'old' PLI materials and had convinced myself 95% that this would not hinder my ability to pass. That 5% doubt has been bugging me though so I really appreciate you taking time to share your thoughts. I'm feeling pretty confident at this point. I guess I'll just continue slogging away on old exam questions until test day.

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Lycurgus
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Re: Patent Bar Exam

Postby Lycurgus » Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:17 pm

Fatduck congratulations on passing the patent bar exam. As always your input has been very useful. I was wondering how much time would you say you actually spent studying?

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fatduck
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Re: Patent Bar Exam

Postby fatduck » Sun Jul 24, 2011 9:27 pm

Lycurgus wrote:Fatduck congratulations on passing the patent bar exam. As always your input has been very useful. I was wondering how much time would you say you actually spent studying?

well, i started studying in february, so calendar-wise i had about 5 months to study. i'm not really sure how many total hours i put into studying, but it wasn't a huge number. if i had to guess, i'd say something to the tune of 50-60 hours, maybe? i would suggest doing practice tests (or portions of practice tests, 1/4 or 1/2 is a much more manageable chunk) and use that to evaluate your preparedness. once i was close to passing the 01-03 practice tests (or at least on pace to pass) i figured i had a good grip of the material and just looked over that pdf of previous exam questions in my spare time.

in my opinion, spending huge amounts of time actually learning sections of the MPEP is a waste of time. i was just worried about passing the exam, not learning how to actually prosecute a patent.

thwalls
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Re: Patent Bar Exam

Postby thwalls » Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:48 pm

fatduck wrote:
Lycurgus wrote:Fatduck congratulations on passing the patent bar exam. As always your input has been very useful. I was wondering how much time would you say you actually spent studying?

well, i started studying in february, so calendar-wise i had about 5 months to study. i'm not really sure how many total hours i put into studying, but it wasn't a huge number. if i had to guess, i'd say something to the tune of 50-60 hours, maybe? i would suggest doing practice tests (or portions of practice tests, 1/4 or 1/2 is a much more manageable chunk) and use that to evaluate your preparedness. once i was close to passing the 01-03 practice tests (or at least on pace to pass) i figured i had a good grip of the material and just looked over that pdf of previous exam questions in my spare time.

in my opinion, spending huge amounts of time actually learning sections of the MPEP is a waste of time. i was just worried about passing the exam, not learning how to actually prosecute a patent.


I studied a little bit more than that, I think around 100 hours or so. Then again, I get really anxious about exams and really didn't want to have to take the test again. The major portion of your studying should go to learning where certain information is contained. Learn to search and you're good to go. Also, the MPEP does a crappy job of teaching you how to prosecute, so don't spend too much time trying to teach yourself.

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skw
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Re: Patent Bar Exam

Postby skw » Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:25 pm

I just passed the patent bar today. I am beyond glad it is over. I studied with 'old' PLI materials. I spent somewhere around 180 hours or so studying over 3 months. I supplemented the PLI materials with reading Bilski/KSR and did all the PLI practice exams plus all the old exams through the 2001 editions. My experience was somewhat different on test day than others who have posted here. I found the 'real' exam far more challenging than the practice exams. On the PTs, I was completing 50 question segments in 2 hours with an entire hour left (didn't even need the extra hour to look up answers -- I did that during the 2 hour portion). I was scoring in the high 80s consistently on PTs. On the real exam, I barely had time to finish each 50 question segment and look up the answers I was unsure on. I finished each segment with literally seconds to spare. I only found about 4 or 5 repeat questions from past exams. There were a couple of questions each on Bilski and KSR and they seemed fond of questions on Restriction Practice (beyond that you must elect something and then traverse if you want to later petition). There were at least 3 questions in this section I had to spend a good chunk of time looking up. There also seemed to be a focus on what happens when the Board issues a new ground of rejection (beyond the obvious -- either ask for reconsideration or re-open prosecution with the examiner). I looked up a lot in the Appeals chapter of the MPEP, which I was not expecting based on my PT experience. Overall, I felt well prepared and I guess I must have been since I passed, but it was nerve wracking and I am extremely glad that you only have to pass this test once.

I'm happy to answer any questions for those still studying. I don't remember many 'specifics' on questions (beyond the generalities I listed here). It is kind of a blur and I am totally exhausted. Tomorrow.....1L Orientation!

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paul34
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Re: Patent Bar Exam

Postby paul34 » Mon Oct 31, 2011 5:40 pm

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Last edited by paul34 on Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

LockBox
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Re: Patent Bar Exam

Postby LockBox » Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:34 pm

sorry to bump an old thread, but I wanted to get some feedback to anyone who may have recently taken the exam or are, like me, in the process of studying for the exam. Like Paul, I am debating whether to purchase the 8.8 (?) version of the PLI materials on ebay or go about acquiring materials in some other way. If anyone has any suggestions/insights, please respond or drop me a line.

Much appreciated.

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chem
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Re: Patent Bar Exam

Postby chem » Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:37 pm

LockBox wrote:sorry to bump an old thread, but I wanted to get some feedback to anyone who may have recently taken the exam or are, like me, in the process of studying for the exam. Like Paul, I am debating whether to purchase the 8.8 (?) version of the PLI materials on ebay or go about acquiring materials in some other way. If anyone has any suggestions/insights, please respond or drop me a line.

Much appreciated.


+1, tagged

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paul34
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Re: Patent Bar Exam

Postby paul34 » Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:35 pm

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Last edited by paul34 on Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

lsatextreme
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Re: Patent Bar Exam

Postby lsatextreme » Tue Jan 10, 2012 5:27 pm

If say I apply and I don't qualify to take the patent bar, then will they tell me exactly what I would need in order to qualify to take it?

I say this because I had a rough undergrad and I don't qualify for cat-A but possibly for cat-B. I want to get an idea of how much extra courses I would have to take in order to qualify to gauge whether it's even worth it.

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wiseowl
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Re: Patent Bar Exam

Postby wiseowl » Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:04 am

A PLI flyer I got in the mail the other day said the test is changing Jan. 31 for the AIA stuff. Whether that's true or marketing hufflepuff I have no idea.

Edit: Looks true.

http://www.ipwatchdog.com/2011/12/06/pt ... /id=20829/

"On November 23, 2011, the Office of Enrollment and Discipline announced that the Patent Bar Examination, typically referred to simply as “the registration examination” by the Patent Office, will be updated on or about January 31, 2012.

The United States Patent and Trademark Office will update the content of the patent registration examination to cover two new rules issued September 26, 2011 that relate to the Leahy-Smith America Invents Act. These new rules permit prioritized examination of patent applications (Track I) and revise the standard for granting inter partes reexamination requests. Additionally, the patent registration examination will also include questions concerning the November 22, 2011 rules governing practice in ex parte appeals before the Board of Patent Appeals and Interferences."

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fatduck
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Re: Patent Bar Exam

Postby fatduck » Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:21 pm

just for reference, when i took the exam in july or whenever, PLI and co. were pushing the idea that the exam was undergoing "radical changes" and would be "fundamentally different and much harder than before." really it was just like 3-4 questions based on the supplemental material that USPTO posted when they announced the exam update. very straightforward. so i think they kind of go through this routine every time the exam changes.




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