1L Soup to Nuts: A Guide to 1L Success

(Study Tips, Dealing With Stress, Maintaining a Social Life, Financial Aid, Internships, Bar Exam, Careers in Law . . . )
skrillo
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2011 9:04 am

Re: 1L Soup to Nuts: A Guide to 1L Success

Postby skrillo » Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:27 am

keg411 wrote:
Baylan wrote:
skrillo wrote:I have to disagree with briefing every case. Ultimately what you need from the cases is the points of law. Unless your professor is one that is a stickler about facts, or is in love with certain cases,* you really don't need to know them. It probably helps for a few weeks during fall semester, just so you can get your feet underneath you, but spending time briefing cases after that is a big waste in my opinion. Read the cases, try to glean the points of law, and supplement with the prof's explanation of a case's importance. The facts are pretty useless for 99.99% of law school exams.

* If you have professors who really harp on certain cases, you would be wise to memorize those: case names, facts, etc. If you throw those in your exam answer you can really stroke their ego and interests, which can get you those marginal points to go from A- to A.


First: TTT Disclaimer. I attend a TTT.

Second: Anecdotally, I followed conventional TLS wisdom and did no such briefing first semester and got a 3.35. Because the others in my study group did brief and did substantially better, I tried it out second semester. 3.85 GPA second semester. Substantial improvement. It may have been related to the differences in exam style and how I was studying, but the fact is that briefing typically helps commit more to memory. It may or may not be worth the time, but at the end of the day, I believe it significantly helped my second semester grades.


I briefed cases all year and did well as well. I dunno, it kept me organized and made it easier for me to remember WTF I was reading (plus, it turned out some profs really really liked it when you mentioned cases). Although I actually like OP's format more than the one I personally used. Briefing just kind of makes for "active" reading; I'm sure taking notes some other way is fine too.
Different strokes, obviously. If it works for you, that's great. I felt it was a big waste of time and cut down on the time I could have been: outlining, reading supplements, doing practice tests, and NOT studying. Some professors get off on seeing case names and facts on exams, but the VAST majority (in my experience) do not. Further, you can usually spot the ones that DO from a mile away.

LS-boundNYC
Posts: 227
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 1:58 pm

Re: 1L Soup to Nuts: A Guide to 1L Success

Postby LS-boundNYC » Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:06 pm

This is super-helpful. Thank you!

kehoema2
Posts: 135
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:52 pm

Re: 1L Soup to Nuts: A Guide to 1L Success

Postby kehoema2 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:08 pm

Thanks

AtticusPinch
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2011 4:34 pm

Re: 1L Soup to Nuts: A Guide to 1L Success

Postby AtticusPinch » Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:56 pm

I have to disagree with briefing every case. Ultimately what you need from the cases is the points of law. Unless your professor is one that is a stickler about facts, or is in love with certain cases,* you really don't need to know them. It probably helps for a few weeks during fall semester, just so you can get your feet underneath you, but spending time briefing cases after that is a big waste in my opinion. Read the cases, try to glean the points of law, and supplement with the prof's explanation of a case's importance. The facts are pretty useless for 99.99% of law school exams.

* If you have professors who really harp on certain cases, you would be wise to memorize those: case names, facts, etc. If you throw those in your exam answer you can really stroke their ego and interests, which can get you those marginal points to go from A- to A.


This is probably true. There are some classes where you simply must mention cases (Conlaw) and there are other classes that require nothing of the sort (probably Crim Law because so much of it is statutory interpretation). Either way, I assure you that you can never go wrong mentioning cases. Even under the most severe word limit, you are well served by dropping a case name or two strictly for the purposes of comparison. This requires no mention of the facts, perhaps just a brief "this is similar to Pierson v. Post because..."

Also, mentioning judges is good too as long as the judge is a famous one. Holmes, Cardozo, and any other SCOTUS judge for that matter is worth mentioning if you are quoting one of their opinions. This is obviously crucial in Conlaw.

Awesome post Atticus. One of the best guides I've seen so far on here. In your schedule, you did your reading on the weekends and your outlining on Fridays, so what were you reviewing/studying at the library during those other days; hornbooks, updating notes?


There are times where I might have read for Monday-Wednesday but not for Thursday and Friday. I would catch up on that during the week. You also use that time to do the onerous LRW assignments (though you should really keep that to a minimum if your class is Pass/Fail. Most of that time, however, is spent drilling down on stuff that I was having trouble grasping. I would sit down with the hornbook and really dive deep into it, review my outline, keep honing that outline, etc. Once you get 4-5 weeks out from finals it becomes more important to do the reading over the weekend so you have time during the week to do practice exams and to review that outline.

Doing all the reading over the weekend is by no means critically important. You can get by without doing that as long as you read the stuff before class and never miss on that. I just did it on the weekends because I know myself- I will have an easier time bringing myself to do work that is "assigned" (like reading) than "optional" (like studying). That may not make sense because all of it is optional in some sense but it worked for me.

I can't take advice from anyone who uses the phrase "soup to nuts".
I am also doing a ton of 0L prep.


Cheers. 0L prep is fine for some, I suppose, but others will recognize that there is more to life than reading Torts months before you will be spending months really reading Torts.

Different strokes, obviously. If it works for you, that's great. I felt it was a big waste of time and cut down on the time I could have been: outlining, reading supplements, doing practice tests, and NOT studying. Some professors get off on seeing case names and facts on exams, but the VAST majority (in my experience) do not. Further, you can usually spot the ones that DO from a mile away.


This is very true. You will know what professors want case names and which ones dont. Also, to be completely honest, briefing doesnt take very long after the first week or two. You begin just pulling the holding, etc., and it is kind of a 3-5 minute add-on at the end of reading the case.

User avatar
gokickrocks
Posts: 200
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 5:13 pm

Re: 1L Soup to Nuts: A Guide to 1L Success

Postby gokickrocks » Fri Jun 17, 2011 2:50 am

Thanks a lot for the advice. I'll be sure to do some 0L prep similar to your 0L prep

spencer1888
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:40 pm

Re: 1L Soup to Nuts: A Guide to 1L Success

Postby spencer1888 » Sat Jun 18, 2011 10:01 pm

thanks!

dchunny614
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:50 pm

Re: 1L Soup to Nuts: A Guide to 1L Success

Postby dchunny614 » Thu Jun 23, 2011 10:58 pm

I read this advice twice a day..lol..

kaiser
Posts: 2940
Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 11:34 pm

Re: 1L Soup to Nuts: A Guide to 1L Success

Postby kaiser » Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:09 pm

.
Last edited by kaiser on Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
bk1
Posts: 18423
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: 1L Soup to Nuts: A Guide to 1L Success

Postby bk1 » Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:18 pm

kaiser wrote:Lol, its sort of funny how this thread will now induce a herd of 0L's to do prep before school starts, yet the bulk will then wonder in retrospect why it didn't help them like it did OP. And then they will realize the crucial point here: OP was smart as hell to begin with. The 0L prep didn't get him to where he is.


RC fail.

kaiser
Posts: 2940
Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 11:34 pm

Re: 1L Soup to Nuts: A Guide to 1L Success

Postby kaiser » Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:22 pm

bk1 wrote:
kaiser wrote:Lol, its sort of funny how this thread will now induce a herd of 0L's to do prep before school starts, yet the bulk will then wonder in retrospect why it didn't help them like it did OP. And then they will realize the crucial point here: OP was smart as hell to begin with. The 0L prep didn't get him to where he is.


RC fail.


Haha I TOTALLY mixed this up with another thread. My bad :) Listen to this OP!!!

User avatar
bk1
Posts: 18423
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: 1L Soup to Nuts: A Guide to 1L Success

Postby bk1 » Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:24 pm

kaiser wrote:Haha I TOTALLY mixed this up with another thread. My bad :) Listen to this OP!!!


I could see that. Actually I thought you did what I almost did which was read just the first line and assume he is going to talk about actual 0L prep without reading further.

kaiser
Posts: 2940
Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 11:34 pm

Re: 1L Soup to Nuts: A Guide to 1L Success

Postby kaiser » Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:25 pm

bk1 wrote:
kaiser wrote:Haha I TOTALLY mixed this up with another thread. My bad :) Listen to this OP!!!


I could see that. Actually I thought you did what I almost did which was read just the first line and assume he is going to talk about actual 0L prep without reading further.


Lol yea, he played that one well. I mixed this up with the "Advice from someone who finished #1 thread" or whatever it was called.

User avatar
northwood
Posts: 4872
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 7:29 pm

Re: 1L Soup to Nuts: A Guide to 1L Success

Postby northwood » Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:28 pm

nice thread. thanks for the advice..


now- how do you go about fixing your slice? ive been trying my best to fixc it but still slice it like a tomato.

User avatar
Perch
Posts: 517
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:36 pm

Re: 1L Soup to Nuts: A Guide to 1L Success

Postby Perch » Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:27 pm

Thanks, great guide...appreciate the mentality that you can, and should, have a life too. I hope :shock:

User avatar
Peace of Mind
Posts: 188
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:44 pm

Re: 1L Soup to Nuts: A Guide to 1L Success

Postby Peace of Mind » Thu Jul 07, 2011 2:55 am

thank you for this :)

fingersxd
Posts: 643
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:04 pm

Re: 1L Soup to Nuts: A Guide to 1L Success

Postby fingersxd » Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:48 pm

Great post, OP. Thanks!

But I gotta say, your normal day is 830-11? It's like Xeoh all over again. I recognize that LS is a TON of work, but 14-15 hour days? Even minus meals/gym this is 12 hours of susbtantive work/studying. How do you avoid burnout?

(Sounds worse than biglaw!)

User avatar
chem
Posts: 867
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2011 8:14 pm

Re: 1L Soup to Nuts: A Guide to 1L Success

Postby chem » Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:49 pm

thank you!

User avatar
kwais
Posts: 1683
Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 12:28 pm

Re: 1L Soup to Nuts: A Guide to 1L Success

Postby kwais » Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:51 pm

appreciated. will read more thoroughly in a few weeks after more golf

User avatar
Rooney
Posts: 1179
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 3:43 pm

Re: 1L Soup to Nuts: A Guide to 1L Success

Postby Rooney » Mon Jul 11, 2011 2:13 pm

AtticusPinch wrote:When you have this philosophy, you realize the folly of 0L prep. You are reading things entirely out of the only context that will matter- what is important to your professor. You don’t know your professors yet, you don’t know what will make them tick, thus, I see no reason to start the preparation process. It would be like the aforementioned appellate lawyer researching the entire spectrum of caselaw without knowing what he is even arguing. Yes, you are going to take contracts, torts, etc., but, I am telling you, the way you will be learning torts will be different than the 100 people in the classroom next to you. This is so much the case that they might as well be thought of as completely different classes.
I cannot for the life of me imagine teaching myself promissory estoppel last summer. Microsoft Word doesn’t even know what “estoppel” is, how the heck would I have figured it out? Even if I sort of figured it out, I would have figured out the E&E way, not my professor’s way. I am certain it would have hurt me, not helped me. Stay far away from substantive 0L prep.


Just wanted to read this again :mrgreen:

AtticusPinch
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2011 4:34 pm

Re: 1L Soup to Nuts: A Guide to 1L Success

Postby AtticusPinch » Wed Jul 13, 2011 4:45 pm

OP here.

Summer update: work going well, golf game going better, all is well.

Transfer update: went 2/2 on this front and am transferring to a T14 located where I am from and wanted to get back to. Could be a huge gamble going from no-debt to lotta-debt, and I agree that it probably won't make a ton of difference for the first job out of law school but I have tended to always take the long view on these things and am ready to roll the dice. I dont know if I could have swung higher ranked schools but I didn't even try. It looks like a lot of schools have been tough on transfers this year, at least so far, and that a handful of schools have been more open than others.

I will say this about transferring- it makes a hell of a lot of difference what school you are transferring from. Schools that are located near the school you are trying to transfer to are invariably favored over ones that are further away just because the reputations carry a bit more water due to proximity. Just my observation/opinion.

If anyone has any questions about the transfer process (hellish), the 1L process (better) or any other process (hard to say without more specificity), feel free to post here or PM.
Last edited by AtticusPinch on Wed Jul 13, 2011 4:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

AtticusPinch
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2011 4:34 pm

Re: 1L Soup to Nuts: A Guide to 1L Success

Postby AtticusPinch » Wed Jul 13, 2011 4:57 pm

fingersxd wrote:Great post, OP. Thanks!

But I gotta say, your normal day is 830-11? It's like Xeoh all over again. I recognize that LS is a TON of work, but 14-15 hour days? Even minus meals/gym this is 12 hours of susbtantive work/studying. How do you avoid burnout?

(Sounds worse than biglaw!)


Sorry for not answering this earlier.

I am not glued to a desk from 830-11. First off, I did not make good use of the hour between classes and tended to go on long lunches with my buddies. If I had a two hour break, I would make better use of it, I just think an hour isnt enough time.

So you are basically in class 830-3:30 for all intents and purposes, with a couple hours off. I'd go directly to the gym after my last class and spend a solid 2.5 hrs away from the law school during that time. Get food, bring it back to the library and pound out hours until 11 or 12. So, to be perfectly honest, during the semester it is really only 5-6 hours a day.

Biglaw is almost assuredly worse. The jobs I had before law school were DEFINITELY worse in terms of hours. But it was more the mindset of treating it like a job and treating the law school like your office.

Finals time is totally different. 15-16 hours spent at a desk. No way around it.

AtticusPinch
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2011 4:34 pm

Re: 1L Soup to Nuts: A Guide to 1L Success

Postby AtticusPinch » Wed Jul 13, 2011 5:01 pm

northwood wrote:nice thread. thanks for the advice..


now- how do you go about fixing your slice? ive been trying my best to fixc it but still slice it like a tomato.


Assuming you are a righty- twist your right hand a little further left on the grip than normal, more overlapping than usual. slide your left foot about an inch higher than your right. slooooooow down that swing and let the club do the work.

User avatar
prezidentv8
Posts: 2821
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:33 am

Re: 1L Soup to Nuts: A Guide to 1L Success

Postby prezidentv8 » Wed Jul 13, 2011 5:07 pm

Your reward for a great post: TLS nitpickery.

AtticusPinch wrote:This poast


But seriously, nice job.

User avatar
Deuce
Posts: 1048
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 11:12 am

Re: 1L Soup to Nuts: A Guide to 1L Success

Postby Deuce » Wed Jul 13, 2011 5:09 pm

taggin... I'll read it sometime

AtticusPinch
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2011 4:34 pm

Re: 1L Soup to Nuts: A Guide to 1L Success

Postby AtticusPinch » Wed Jul 13, 2011 5:10 pm

prezidentv8 wrote:Your reward for a great post: TLS nitpickery.

AtticusPinch wrote:This poast


But seriously, nice job.


That was intentional and would be recognized by some as an homage to xoxohth, which I hate to say it, is a superior website in terms of witty banter, humor and intelligent conversation.




Return to “Forum for Law School Students”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: lovesthelaw, newhere21, wg6524 and 14 guests