Petitioning Curve Out

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jc3971
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Petitioning Curve Out

Postby jc3971 » Wed Jun 08, 2011 7:27 pm

I am currently in the process of putting a case together to petition a grade change from a D to a "S" or "P" for passing. The circumstances are a bit unusual which is why I feel I have a shot (but a long shot). I just finished my 1L year and will need to have this grade changed to move onto my 2L year. So here is the details:

In our school, if you fall below the minimum GPA you are automatically curved out (no probation is given). This D I received in this class was from a visiting professor. We had had complaints about her from the beginning. We as students have a right to review our exams. When many of us went into her office to see how we received our grades, she refused to show us her grading and how she gave us our grades. She posted only rankings and not actual grades. Thus, leaving my section in the dark on how we really did.

Handful of my classmates made official complaints throughout the year and all of them were documented. She also taught a 2L class and there were several complaints from 2L students during the Spring semester as well. This professor is no longer with the school. She was notified shortly before the year was over. During one lecture before an exam, she told our class due to the lack of "good answers" to her questions, we would all fail her exam (this is documented). Throughout the year she made the environment less than ideal for learning.

I am one of many students who received lower than average grades after our finals were taken. We tried e-mailing her so we could meeting with her to see what was wrong with our exams. She refused and replied by telling us to speak with the administration as they are the ones who have that information. They did not. They told us she had them. She moved back to her home state and is no longer replying to our e-mails and refuses to answer any questions (these communications are documented and the other students have testified the same).

Breakdown: The ONE bad grade of "D" brought me below the minimum GPA. Everything else was C or C+. I had perfect attendance and attended all tutorials, extra workshops, etc. (all documented).

Do I have even a sliver of a chance of getting my D changed to a PASS?



P.S.
I also have documents of two family members passing (one from a stroke in September and one from being killed in a car accident in January - both in close relationships). Family members do not speak much English so I made constant communication between myself and the family members located in another state (working with probate and trial lawyers). I would like to present this as "exceptional circumstances" that also affected my studies.

flcath
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Re: Petitioning Curve Out

Postby flcath » Wed Jun 08, 2011 7:34 pm

For your sake (I mean that, from the bottom of my heart), I hope that they do not change the grade.

I also think that they won't. What school/professor? You might as well out them.

BlueDiamond
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Re: Petitioning Curve Out

Postby BlueDiamond » Wed Jun 08, 2011 7:36 pm

They likely will not change it. Unless you have a job locked up through some connection those grades wont leave you with many options anyway. I'd honestly drop out if I were you.

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glitter178
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Re: Petitioning Curve Out

Postby glitter178 » Wed Jun 08, 2011 7:41 pm

flcath wrote:For your sake (I mean that, from the bottom of my heart), I hope that they do not change the grade.

I also think that they won't. What school/professor? You might as well out them.


really? can you explain why?

i'm not being a dick, i'm seriously curious about your reasoning.

flcath
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Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:39 pm

Re: Petitioning Curve Out

Postby flcath » Wed Jun 08, 2011 7:50 pm

glitter178 wrote:
flcath wrote:For your sake (I mean that, from the bottom of my heart), I hope that they do not change the grade.

I also think that they won't. What school/professor? You might as well out them.


really? can you explain why?

i'm not being a dick, i'm seriously curious about your reasoning.

Which part?

I hope they don't change it because OP's (other) grades at a school that "curves out" (this almost definitely means T4) mean that he will not be a good position (read: he's in a terrible position) not only for getting a job, but for passing the bar. Don't laugh; bar passage is the reason T4s fail out 20-30% of the class in the first place.

Even if he's on a full-ride, OP almost definitely lost it with this semester's performance. So, OP should drop out, as the poster above said. Having the school fail him forces the issue (OP obviously doesn't intend to) and also lets him off the hook from any regret he might feel down the road.

I think they'll refuse to change it because doing so would set an abominable precedent. Top schools restrict the fuck out of grade challenges (often it is flat-out not allowed, even with the prof's blessing, absent a full-faculty vote for "incompetence or dishonesty" or some similarly unattainable standard). The fact that (a) OP is not at a top school, and (b) the prof is a visiting prof that the administration/faculty won't have to deal with in the future make it more likely that they'll change it, but the odds are still greatly against the OP.
Last edited by flcath on Wed Jun 08, 2011 7:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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glitter178
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Re: Petitioning Curve Out

Postby glitter178 » Wed Jun 08, 2011 7:52 pm

flcath wrote:
glitter178 wrote:
flcath wrote:For your sake (I mean that, from the bottom of my heart), I hope that they do not change the grade.

I also think that they won't. What school/professor? You might as well out them.


really? can you explain why?

i'm not being a dick, i'm seriously curious about your reasoning.

Which part?

I hope they don't change it because OP's (other) grades at a school that "curves out" (this almost definitely means T4) mean that he will not be a good position (read: he's in a terrible position) not only for getting a job, but for passing the bar. Don't laugh; bar passage is the reason T4s fail out 20-30% of the class in the first place.

Even if he's on a full-ride, OP almost definitely lost it with this semester's performance. So, OP should drop out, as the poster above said. Having them fail him out also lets him off the hook from any regret he might feel down the road.

I think they'll refuse to change it because doing so would set an abominable precedent. Top schools restrict the fuck out of grade challenges (often it is flat-out not allowed, absent a full-faculty vote for "incompetence or dishonesty" or some similarly unattainable standard). The fact that (a) OP is not at a top school, and (b) the prof is a visiting prof that the administration/faculty won't have to deal with in the future make it more likely that they'll change it, but the odds are still greatly against the OP.


gotcha. i didn't think about the precedent part. i remember something about loyola upping grades a few years back and all hell broke loose.

flcath
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Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:39 pm

Re: Petitioning Curve Out

Postby flcath » Wed Jun 08, 2011 7:56 pm

glitter178 wrote:
flcath wrote:
glitter178 wrote:
flcath wrote:For your sake (I mean that, from the bottom of my heart), I hope that they do not change the grade.

I also think that they won't. What school/professor? You might as well out them.


really? can you explain why?

i'm not being a dick, i'm seriously curious about your reasoning.

Which part?

I hope they don't change it because OP's (other) grades at a school that "curves out" (this almost definitely means T4) mean that he will not be a good position (read: he's in a terrible position) not only for getting a job, but for passing the bar. Don't laugh; bar passage is the reason T4s fail out 20-30% of the class in the first place.

Even if he's on a full-ride, OP almost definitely lost it with this semester's performance. So, OP should drop out, as the poster above said. Having them fail him out also lets him off the hook from any regret he might feel down the road.

I think they'll refuse to change it because doing so would set an abominable precedent. Top schools restrict the fuck out of grade challenges (often it is flat-out not allowed, absent a full-faculty vote for "incompetence or dishonesty" or some similarly unattainable standard). The fact that (a) OP is not at a top school, and (b) the prof is a visiting prof that the administration/faculty won't have to deal with in the future make it more likely that they'll change it, but the odds are still greatly against the OP.


gotcha. i didn't think about the precedent part. i remember something about loyola upping grades a few years back and all hell broke loose.

Yeah, at most places it's un-doable even with the approval of the prof. They don't want next semester's meeting with the prof to "discuss the exam" to effectively become hour 5 of the exam.

missinglink
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Re: Petitioning Curve Out

Postby missinglink » Wed Jun 08, 2011 8:53 pm

BlueDiamond wrote:They likely will not change it. Unless you have a job locked up through some connection those grades wont leave you with many options anyway. I'd honestly drop out if I were you.

If you decide to go through with it, I wish you all the best.

But if you really pulled straight C's and C-'s for the rest of your courses, I would seriously consider your exit options. People who I know that received grades in that range weren't even able to secure unpaid 1L summer employment. That doesn't bode well for paid employment after graduation. Unless you have something lined up that requires a J.D., I'd consider cutting your losses.

I don't know what your chances are generally. This would be dependent on your school administration and their official policies. Law schools generally don't deviate from those policies. Check your student handbook (or similar document) for what the requirements are to meet an "exceptional circumstances" request. At least at my school, pretty much every eventuality has a rule that pertains to it.

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FantasticMrFox
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Re: Petitioning Curve Out

Postby FantasticMrFox » Wed Jun 08, 2011 8:58 pm

flcath wrote:
glitter178 wrote:
flcath wrote:For your sake (I mean that, from the bottom of my heart), I hope that they do not change the grade.

I also think that they won't. What school/professor? You might as well out them.


really? can you explain why?

i'm not being a dick, i'm seriously curious about your reasoning.

Which part?

I hope they don't change it because OP's (other) grades at a school that "curves out" (this almost definitely means T4) mean that he will not be a good position (read: he's in a terrible position) not only for getting a job, but for passing the bar. Don't laugh; bar passage is the reason T4s fail out 20-30% of the class in the first place.

Even if he's on a full-ride, OP almost definitely lost it with this semester's performance. So, OP should drop out, as the poster above said. Having the school fail him forces the issue (OP obviously doesn't intend to) and also lets him off the hook from any regret he might feel down the road.
I like this answer (I didn't even deduce him being in T4)

NotMyRealName09
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Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:50 pm

Re: Petitioning Curve Out

Postby NotMyRealName09 » Wed Jun 08, 2011 10:22 pm

C's mean a D isn't unprecedented. It's not an outlier. If you had As then a D, that's one thing. I'm sorry, but law school isn't for you. The time to get worked up and energetic was before the exams, not after you did poorly. Do all of your appeals, but the bottom of the class is never happy.

jc3971
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Re: Petitioning Curve Out

Postby jc3971 » Wed Jun 08, 2011 10:28 pm

Thank you all for your input and I greatly appreciate everyone's brutal honesty. The public sector is what I intended to work for, for those who were wondering. Nothing set up but have a few people who I worked for prior to law school.




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