One approach to 1L success from someone ranked #1.

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hurldes
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Re: Guide to 1L Success from someone ranked #1.

Postby hurldes » Tue Jun 07, 2011 9:02 pm

NarwhalPunter wrote:You are an absolute beast.

Congrats on a job well done. You must also have an exceptionally loving and tolerant wife to put up with that kind of schedule. Wow.


seriously... how did you stay married?

keg411
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Re: Guide to 1L Success from someone ranked #1.

Postby keg411 » Tue Jun 07, 2011 9:08 pm

hurldes wrote:
NarwhalPunter wrote:You are an absolute beast.

Congrats on a job well done. You must also have an exceptionally loving and tolerant wife to put up with that kind of schedule. Wow.


seriously... how did you stay married?


I know more than one person in top 5-ish people at my school who are married. Less social pressure.

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FantasticMrFox
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Re: Guide to 1L Success from someone ranked #1.

Postby FantasticMrFox » Tue Jun 07, 2011 9:25 pm

hurldes wrote:
NarwhalPunter wrote:You are an absolute beast.

Congrats on a job well done. You must also have an exceptionally loving and tolerant wife to put up with that kind of schedule. Wow.


seriously... how did you stay married?

well, considering his potential future salary.....
Jokes aside, obviously a good pair with the necessary respect to each other's aspirations.

23402385985
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Re: Guide to 1L Success from someone ranked #1.

Postby 23402385985 » Tue Jun 07, 2011 9:29 pm

FantasticMrFox wrote:
hurldes wrote:
NarwhalPunter wrote:You are an absolute beast.

Congrats on a job well done. You must also have an exceptionally loving and tolerant wife to put up with that kind of schedule. Wow.


seriously... how did you stay married?

well, considering his potential future salary.....
Jokes aside, obviously a good pair with the necessary respect to each other's aspirations.


You ain't sayin' she a gold digger?

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driftwood6
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Re: Guide to 1L Success from someone ranked #1.

Postby driftwood6 » Tue Jun 07, 2011 9:46 pm

mscarn23 wrote: Driftwood- if I told you I recently acquired a first edition of Atlas Shrugged, would that make me more, or less likeable in your opinion?


Definitely more likable. Great read.

mscarn23
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Re: Guide to 1L Success from someone ranked #1.

Postby mscarn23 » Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:01 pm

Yes, my wife is very understanding- although after 7 years of marriage she was probably happy to get a little break from me. And she's definitely looking forward to a (hopefully) big salary after graduation- I was broke when we married, made bank for several years, and am back to a student's salary (as is she at the moment).

With regards to the question about waiting until Christmas break to read the second half of the E&Es, that would probably have made more sense than reading them all over the summer (which is what I did). As it turned out though, I was abroad over break and wouldn't have wanted to (i.e. my wife wouldn't let me get away with) spend that time with my nose in a book.

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knotoftoads
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Re: Guide to 1L Success from someone ranked #1.

Postby knotoftoads » Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:02 pm

thanks for the tips!

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Kabuo
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Re: Guide to 1L Success from someone ranked #1.

Postby Kabuo » Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:18 pm

Why has no one else pointed out the one thing that contributed most to OP's success? He doesn't even eat lunch on weekdays. (tag, and ty for the post)

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Verity
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Re: Guide to 1L Success from someone ranked #1.

Postby Verity » Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:24 pm

Kabuo wrote:Why has no one else pointed out the one thing that contributed most to OP's success? He doesn't even eat lunch on weekdays. (tag, and ty for the post)



"Lunch is for wimps."

mscarn23
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Re: Guide to 1L Success from someone ranked #1.

Postby mscarn23 » Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:30 pm

All about the 6 egg-whites for breakfast and healthy snacking.

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holeinone600
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Re: Guide to 1L Success from someone ranked #1.

Postby holeinone600 » Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:39 pm

appreciate the post. i better get my golf fix this summer before 1L year starts...

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Perch
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Re: Guide to 1L Success from someone ranked #1.

Postby Perch » Tue Jun 07, 2011 11:15 pm

Corwin wrote:Thanks a lot for writing this up.

mscarn23
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Re: Guide to 1L Success from someone ranked #1.

Postby mscarn23 » Tue Jun 07, 2011 11:29 pm

And nice Gecco reference by the way.

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blink
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Re: Guide to 1L Success from someone ranked #1.

Postby blink » Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:10 am

Kabuo wrote:Why has no one else pointed out the one thing that contributed most to OP's success? He doesn't even eat lunch on weekdays. (tag, and ty for the post)



I was just about to comment on this! how do you go to lunch with profs all the time but not actually take any time out of your schedule to do so? most impressive.

jjlaw
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Re: Guide to 1L Success from someone ranked #1.

Postby jjlaw » Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:12 am

Thanks for the great advice! I especially liked the detailed schedules you gave for non-exam and exam periods of the semester.

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themillsman22
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Re: Guide to 1L Success from someone ranked #1.

Postby themillsman22 » Wed Jun 08, 2011 1:49 am

Most impressive. Congrats on your successes. Heck of a work ethic.

liLtuneChi
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Re: Guide to 1L Success from someone ranked #1.

Postby liLtuneChi » Wed Jun 08, 2011 2:25 am

mscarn23 wrote:Alright, so here’s a listing of the supplements that I used during 0L/1L year. I'm just sort of throwing these in here as I dig through them, so I apologize for the lack of a discernible order and the various punctuation I'm employing.

Prep:

LEEWS
Delaney “how to do your best on law school exams”
Delaney “learning legal reasoning”
Getting to Maybe
Planet Law School II
Law School Confidential
Guerrilla tactics for getting the legal job of your dreams…
Nut Shell “introduction to the study and practice of law”
Emanuel’s First Year Questions & Answers (I didn’t actually read this as prep however it has a rundown on every subject so I thought it fit best here. It has multiple choice and short answer questions that make nice reviews)
E&E- Torts, Civ Pro, Property, Contracts, Con Law (I’d forgotten I read the E&E as well as Chemerinsky).
Chemerinsky “Principles and Policies”
Delaney’s “Learning Criminal Law” (this book was interesting, but I think the E&E might have been more useful in retrospect).

Torts:

Emanuel CrunchTime
Questions & Answers
Gilbert Law Summaries written by Marc Franklin (we used his text book)
The Glannon Guide (learning through multiple choice questions)

Criminal Law:

Understanding Criminal Law written by Josh Dressler (we used his text book)
Questions & Answers
The Glannon Guide (learning through multiple choice questions)

Civil Procedure:

Questions & Answers
Siegel’s Civil Procedure
Acing Civil Procedure
A Student’s Guide to the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure
Emanuel’s CrunchTime
Contracts:
Emanuel’s CrunchTime

Property:

Understanding Property Law written by John Sprankling (we used his text book)
Siegel’s Property
Questions & Answers
Constitutional Law:
Siegel’s Con Law
Questions & Answers
Chemerinsky “Principles and Policies”

Legal Writing:

I didn’t enjoy legal writing, and didn’t put very much time into it (it was by far my worst grade), however in preparation for Harvard’s write-on I bought Eugene Volokh’s “Academic Legal Writing.” Unfortunately Harvard’s write-on took place during my first week of work, so I wasn’t able to put very much time into the competition. I think I read on the TLS write-on thread that Volokh recommends spending about 16 hours a day doing the write-on (no idea if this is true or not, as I have yet to read his book)- I spent 4 hours a day at most and was happy just to finish the thing on time. If I manage to miraculously write-on (have faith when I say the odds are extremely long) I will certainly update everyone on my (lack of) a technique for doing so.

Various housekeeping matters:

Canadian Wolf- when you put it like that, it does sound a bit obvious.
Notanumber- if I manage to get into YLS, I will think about dialing it down a notch.
2011cycle- I guess I’m not the only one who knows what it takes to sell real estate.
Driftwood- if I told you I recently acquired a first edition of Atlas Shrugged, would that make me more, or less likeable in your opinion?


smh

you could've still ended up #1 at your school without all the supplements

your obviously a smart guy (177 lsat) and went to a low ranked school (in relation to your lsat)......plus you actually payed attention in class and worked hard

Maybe its just me but I think supplements are more of a DETRIMENT than a benefit. If you understand the law fine then they're completely unnecessary. Your only gonna get tested on what your Professor teaches and most supplements get into way more stuff than is covered in class. And if you don't get whats going on in class, I think asking the professor is a better route to go than supplements. If that fails, then supplements are the way to go.

I didn't do as well as you, just top 5% at CLS, but I think alot of what you did was completely unnecessary. Props to your success and maybe this works for some people but I think you did way more work than was neccessary to get the top grades and I think you would've gotten there anyway without the orgy on supplements or 0L prep.



HOWEVER, I agree 100% with what you had to say about the Profs. Gunning the first couple of weeks of class and getting a good reputation with your profs is critical. Also paying attention in class is the most important thing you can do. Its easy to drift off and not pay attention when your not on call but focusing on lectures as if your being called on for every question is critical to understand the material well enough to dominate the tests.

Fark-o-vision
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Re: Guide to 1L Success from someone ranked #1.

Postby Fark-o-vision » Wed Jun 08, 2011 4:39 am

liLtuneChi wrote:
mscarn23 wrote:Alright, so here’s a listing of the supplements that I used during 0L/1L year. I'm just sort of throwing these in here as I dig through them, so I apologize for the lack of a discernible order and the various punctuation I'm employing.

Prep:

LEEWS
Delaney “how to do your best on law school exams”
Delaney “learning legal reasoning”
Getting to Maybe
Planet Law School II
Law School Confidential
Guerrilla tactics for getting the legal job of your dreams…
Nut Shell “introduction to the study and practice of law”
Emanuel’s First Year Questions & Answers (I didn’t actually read this as prep however it has a rundown on every subject so I thought it fit best here. It has multiple choice and short answer questions that make nice reviews)
E&E- Torts, Civ Pro, Property, Contracts, Con Law (I’d forgotten I read the E&E as well as Chemerinsky).
Chemerinsky “Principles and Policies”
Delaney’s “Learning Criminal Law” (this book was interesting, but I think the E&E might have been more useful in retrospect).

Torts:

Emanuel CrunchTime
Questions & Answers
Gilbert Law Summaries written by Marc Franklin (we used his text book)
The Glannon Guide (learning through multiple choice questions)

Criminal Law:

Understanding Criminal Law written by Josh Dressler (we used his text book)
Questions & Answers
The Glannon Guide (learning through multiple choice questions)

Civil Procedure:

Questions & Answers
Siegel’s Civil Procedure
Acing Civil Procedure
A Student’s Guide to the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure
Emanuel’s CrunchTime
Contracts:
Emanuel’s CrunchTime

Property:

Understanding Property Law written by John Sprankling (we used his text book)
Siegel’s Property
Questions & Answers
Constitutional Law:
Siegel’s Con Law
Questions & Answers
Chemerinsky “Principles and Policies”

Legal Writing:

I didn’t enjoy legal writing, and didn’t put very much time into it (it was by far my worst grade), however in preparation for Harvard’s write-on I bought Eugene Volokh’s “Academic Legal Writing.” Unfortunately Harvard’s write-on took place during my first week of work, so I wasn’t able to put very much time into the competition. I think I read on the TLS write-on thread that Volokh recommends spending about 16 hours a day doing the write-on (no idea if this is true or not, as I have yet to read his book)- I spent 4 hours a day at most and was happy just to finish the thing on time. If I manage to miraculously write-on (have faith when I say the odds are extremely long) I will certainly update everyone on my (lack of) a technique for doing so.

Various housekeeping matters:

Canadian Wolf- when you put it like that, it does sound a bit obvious.
Notanumber- if I manage to get into YLS, I will think about dialing it down a notch.
2011cycle- I guess I’m not the only one who knows what it takes to sell real estate.
Driftwood- if I told you I recently acquired a first edition of Atlas Shrugged, would that make me more, or less likeable in your opinion?


smh

you could've still ended up #1 at your school without all the supplements

your obviously a smart guy (177 lsat) and went to a low ranked school (in relation to your lsat)......plus you actually payed attention in class and worked hard

Maybe its just me but I think supplements are more of a DETRIMENT than a benefit. If you understand the law fine then they're completely unnecessary. Your only gonna get tested on what your Professor teaches and most supplements get into way more stuff than is covered in class. And if you don't get whats going on in class, I think asking the professor is a better route to go than supplements. If that fails, then supplements are the way to go.

I didn't do as well as you, just top 5% at CLS, but I think alot of what you did was completely unnecessary. Props to your success and maybe this works for some people but I think you did way more work than was neccessary to get the top grades and I think you would've gotten there anyway without the orgy on supplements or 0L prep.



HOWEVER, I agree 100% with what you had to say about the Profs. Gunning the first couple of weeks of class and getting a good reputation with your profs is critical. Also paying attention in class is the most important thing you can do. Its easy to drift off and not pay attention when your not on call but focusing on lectures as if your being called on for every question is critical to understand the material well enough to dominate the tests.


I think the actual take away here, for me anyway, is that if you are the kind of guy who is going to whine about reading a few books over summer and working 8-10 hours a day, then the law really isn't a good choice.

OP didn't do well because he read supplements, or did 0L prep, or practiced exams. He did well because he possesses a personality that makes those things natural.

mscarn23
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Re: Guide to 1L Success from someone ranked #1.

Postby mscarn23 » Wed Jun 08, 2011 7:18 am

It is definitely possible that the supplements were/are a detriment, especially as it related to the 0L prep. As I mentioned in the original post, I assumed going in that I would be mentally out of shape when I started school, making my prep more about putting myself into gameday shape.

With regards to supplements during the year, while there's an argument that they're over-kill, for someone who is targeting #1 that's not a bad thing. First, because I read the supplements prior to the week's class (and prior to most of the week's reading), I used them to get an understanding of the topic we'd be covering in advance of the case law. For something like adverse possession, I knew what the topic was about, its elements, the various justifications for it, and criticisms of these justifications, before wading through the murky waters of actual cases. While this removed some of the mystery of divining rules from opinions, it gave me the chance to look deeper into the cases to consider the underlying tensions of a specific decision.

Second, it gave me a good incentive to stay engaged and keep plugging away. Not to return to a discussion of distance running, but I tend to get less tired when I keep my stride, as opposed to sitting down, having a beer, and then trying to pound out another few miles. If I didn't use supplements I wouldn't have enough to do on the weekends, would sit down for the proverbial beer, and wouldn't be as limber when I picked up the run.

As an extension of this, I'll admit freely that 1L courses get pretty boring. By doing supplements, and seeing the different approaches that these supplements (and these in response to different courts) took, things were more interesting to me and I didn't get bored.

Haha, and it's a fair point that I don't have lunch scheduled in there (I also- like Jack Bauer- did not schedule bathroom time, so I guess I cheated the schedule here and there. Like I said earlier I mostly stuck to healthy snacks mixed throughout the day, though the occasional sandwich popped up here and there. Wherher optimg for a snack or something more, I ate while I studied, though when I scheduled lunch with a prof this wasn't true. I would say I took lunch with each prof about once a month, with some profs not receiving subsequent invites (I'm sure they were crushed), and a couple never receiving an initial invite (there were a few profs that I didn't care for and couldn't imagine sharing a meal with). While in a dating context lunch once a month doesn't seem like much, I think it's good number in the professional context (one which I've continued into the summer, to keep those relationships healthy).

mscarn23
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Re: Guide to 1L Success from someone ranked #1.

Postby mscarn23 » Wed Jun 08, 2011 7:33 am

One last response to liltune, and to everyone else- most profs suggest you not use supplements, and most were surprised to learn that I was not using just one, but many. They voiced concern that the contradictory information you sometimes get from different supplements would confuse me, and perhaps for many this would be a problem. For me, I took the case law and prof's discussions as primary mandatory authority- this was the law. Anything that contradicted this was like secondary persuasive authority. Neither sufficient nor necessary to pass/do well on the exam, but a nice cherry on top if you could work it into an answer (many profs say you'll lose points for bringing in outside knowledge, but I don't believe it. They almost always assign the notes after cases, which contain an insane amount of additional info, much more than any supplement would cover.).

And to answer an earlier question I type a hair over 90 WPM provided there aren't too many numbers involved (I never got great at accurately hitting that top row of keys).

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romothesavior
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Re: Guide to 1L Success from someone ranked #1.

Postby romothesavior » Wed Jun 08, 2011 4:26 pm

Pretty helpful guide for those of you who hope to gun endlessly, but I've gotta say, I haven't witnessed a single person who works like this at my school. Even our top 5% people are at Bar Review/Happy Hour most weeks. So take that fwiw.

skrillo
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Re: Guide to 1L Success from someone ranked #1.

Postby skrillo » Wed Jun 08, 2011 4:56 pm

^ Agree.

I am #1 (ghost) and while I socialized a lot less than some, I made friends, went out 1 night per week if averaged across the whole semester. (Probably less than once per week for the last 4-6, but 2-3 at the beginning.)

But hey, whatever works.

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NYC Law
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Re: Guide to 1L Success from someone ranked #1.

Postby NYC Law » Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:00 pm

skrillo wrote:^ Agree.

I am #1 (ghost) and while I socialized a lot less than some, I made friends, went out 1 night per week if averaged across the whole semester. (Probably less than once per week for the last 4-6, but 2-3 at the beginning.)

But hey, whatever works.


What rank school?
I certainly hope you're working on an article :D

(Even though the TL;DR version of all these articles combined is do what works for you and work smart and hard)

CanadianWolf
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Re: Guide to 1L Success from someone ranked #1.

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:04 pm

OP is very similiar to the top 3 students & the law review managing editor during my law school years--all of whom shunned "biglaw".

Omega10
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Re: Guide to 1L Success from someone ranked #1.

Postby Omega10 » Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:58 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:OP is very similiar to the top 3 students & the law review managing editor during my law school years--all of whom shunned "biglaw".

Do you know specifically what they did instead? Just curious.




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