One approach to 1L success from someone ranked #1.

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keg411
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Re: Guide to 1L Success from someone ranked #1.

Postby keg411 » Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:21 pm

joncrooshal wrote:
Wholigan wrote:
OP wrote: 68 paragraphs on being the uber gunner of all gunners


Renne Walker wrote:I just received my code to LexisNexis so I suppose reading indoors beats 103° outdoors!


crossingforHYS wrote:I'm ocd and will give this schedule a try.....but we will see


I know someone is going to dispute this, but OP has an LSAT score 13-15 points higher than the likely median at his school. That's extremely rare, and I'd say it plays into his #1 ranking as much as, if not more than, all of the gunner tactics combined. I tip my hat to OP since this worked out really well for him, but I bet he could have been at least one of the top three people in his class doing 25% of the amount of work he did.


While true, it goes along with what a few others did who were similarly ranked at the end of their 1L.


The person you quoted is also similarly ranked at the end of 1L.
hth ;)

crossingforHYS
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Re: Guide to 1L Success from someone ranked #1.

Postby crossingforHYS » Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:57 pm

Wholigan wrote:
OP wrote: 68 paragraphs on being the uber gunner of all gunners


Renne Walker wrote:I just received my code to LexisNexis so I suppose reading indoors beats 103° outdoors!


crossingforHYS wrote:I'm ocd and will give this schedule a try.....but we will see


I know someone is going to dispute this, but OP has an LSAT score 13-15 points higher than the likely median at his school. That's extremely rare, and I'd say it plays into his #1 ranking as much as, if not more than, all of the gunner tactics combined. I tip my hat to OP since this worked out really well for him, but I bet he could have been at least one of the top three people in his class doing 25% of the amount of work he did.

I agree---but my median lsat is lower them the average at my school---so I will report back and let you know if this works well. if one has the disipline to do this then they should try, if you chose not to do it, then that's fine :) no judgment.

I am just predispositioned that way---for me to keep sane throughout the process I have to go big---or I will not try at all.

whatever works right?

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Flips88
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Re: Guide to 1L Success from someone ranked #1.

Postby Flips88 » Fri Jun 10, 2011 5:01 pm

OP is probably 33 years old or so and married and had been out of a classroom setting for a decade. The amount of work it took to get his mind back in school mode probably doesn't hold for kids going straight through or who have only been out for a year or two. Either way, OP seems like a good candidate to get chewed up and spit out by the Big Law machine.

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Borhas
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Re: Guide to 1L Success from someone ranked #1.

Postby Borhas » Fri Jun 10, 2011 5:06 pm

Renne Walker wrote:
Kilpatrick wrote:You actually paid money to sign up for Lexis? You're not even 0L gunning right - you should've got Westlaw


It is free. . . unless one includes tuition : ). Westlaw should be available sometime soon. Whether or not these databases are helpful today is questionable. . . but when classes begin, they should come in handy. Right?


kind of, but not really

cases in case books are heavily edited (much shorter) they focus on what your prof wants you to take away from them (ideally)

in WL and LN they are not.

however WL and LN headnotes will give you quick summaries of the rules, and the synopsis is a good way of getting the gist of a case without reading it

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NYC Law
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Re: Guide to 1L Success from someone ranked #1.

Postby NYC Law » Fri Jun 10, 2011 5:08 pm

Borhas wrote:
Renne Walker wrote:
Kilpatrick wrote:You actually paid money to sign up for Lexis? You're not even 0L gunning right - you should've got Westlaw


It is free. . . unless one includes tuition : ). Westlaw should be available sometime soon. Whether or not these databases are helpful today is questionable. . . but when classes begin, they should come in handy. Right?


kind of, but not really

cases in case books are heavily edited (much shorter) they focus on what your prof wants you to take away from them (ideally)

in WL and LN they are not.

however WL and LN headnotes will give you quick summaries of the rules, and the synopsis is a good way of getting the gist of a case without reading it


Whats the deal with these reward points I hear about? I'd be interested in getting a jump start on Lexis solely for those.

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Borhas
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Re: Guide to 1L Success from someone ranked #1.

Postby Borhas » Fri Jun 10, 2011 5:10 pm

Lexis is nervous that WL Next will steal a generation of two of law students, so they want to get them hooked while still in LS.

You could easily make $300-400 of amazon.com credits through LN (and this is as good as cash, since you'll inevitably have to spend money there for text books)... just log in everyday and shepardize some random case, and do the tutorials they are advertising.

====

Lexis Nexis Advance should be coming out in the fall. From what I've seen it's the equivalent of WL Next, and a HUGE step up from standard Lexis Nexis.

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driftwood6
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Re: Guide to 1L Success from someone ranked #1.

Postby driftwood6 » Fri Jun 10, 2011 5:16 pm

Flips88 wrote:OP is probably 33 years old or so and married and had been out of a classroom setting for a decade. The amount of work it took to get his mind back in school mode probably doesn't hold for kids going straight through or who have only been out for a year or two. Either way, OP seems like a good candidate to get chewed up and spit out by the Big Law machine.


Wow. that was riveting. Could you try to fit another unsolicited assumption about the OP in that dross? The correct response would be to thank him for his post and move along.

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Flips88
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Re: Guide to 1L Success from someone ranked #1.

Postby Flips88 » Fri Jun 10, 2011 5:19 pm

driftwood6 wrote:
Flips88 wrote:OP is probably 33 years old or so and married and had been out of a classroom setting for a decade. The amount of work it took to get his mind back in school mode probably doesn't hold for kids going straight through or who have only been out for a year or two. Either way, OP seems like a good candidate to get chewed up and spit out by the Big Law machine.


Wow. that was riveting. Could you try to fit another unsolicited assumption about the OP in that dross? The correct response would be to thank him for his post and move along.

My apologies. Back to your guys' Ayn Rand circlejerk.

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driftwood6
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Re: Guide to 1L Success from someone ranked #1.

Postby driftwood6 » Fri Jun 10, 2011 5:31 pm

Flips88 wrote:
driftwood6 wrote:
Flips88 wrote:OP is probably 33 years old or so and married and had been out of a classroom setting for a decade. The amount of work it took to get his mind back in school mode probably doesn't hold for kids going straight through or who have only been out for a year or two. Either way, OP seems like a good candidate to get chewed up and spit out by the Big Law machine.


Wow. that was riveting. Could you try to fit another unsolicited assumption about the OP in that dross? The correct response would be to thank him for his post and move along.

My apologies. Back to your guys' Ayn Rand circlejerk.


At least it would be objective...

jaydizzle
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Re: Guide to 1L Success from someone ranked #1.

Postby jaydizzle » Fri Jun 10, 2011 5:35 pm

Damn!!!!!!

jeff5170
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Re: Guide to 1L Success from someone ranked #1.

Postby jeff5170 » Fri Jun 10, 2011 5:49 pm

Congrats and thanks!

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Naked Dude
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Re: Guide to 1L Success from someone ranked #1.

Postby Naked Dude » Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:03 pm

NYC Law wrote:
Dany wrote:
sanetruth wrote:Coming out of law school with zero friends/connections (other than profs) seems to be missing the point somewhat.

What? The point of law school is to get an education and get a job. He's not missing the point. You might have different priorities or place a higher value on socializing, but that doesn't make it the point of law school.

Congrats on a great year, OP. The guide was really helpful, and while I don't think I'll be nearly as dedicated as you, I'll definitely be taking away a lot of your advice!


TBF connections and networks play a major role throughout your legal career from what I've read, so I think it does matter later on.


Seems like a risky strategy to me. If you ostracize yourself and become "that guy," then i guess it works out if you transfer to HLS or CLS, but what if you don't do well enough to transfer? You have a negligible social base, and you are the antisocial "gunner." If god forbid you don't get a job, how do you begin networking with the peers you once shunned? I, for one, have a long memory, as most successful people do.

There is something to be said for going all-in. But not taking the time to make connections or friends is really putting your cojones on the table. Studying 70 hours a week does not guarantee top 1%.

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Naked Dude
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Re: Guide to 1L Success from someone ranked #1.

Postby Naked Dude » Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:11 pm

Wholigan wrote:
OP wrote: 68 paragraphs on being the uber gunner of all gunners


Renne Walker wrote:I just received my code to LexisNexis so I suppose reading indoors beats 103° outdoors!


crossingforHYS wrote:I'm ocd and will give this schedule a try.....but we will see


I know someone is going to dispute this, but OP has an LSAT score 13-15 points higher than the likely median at his school. That's extremely rare, and I'd say it plays into his #1 ranking as much as, if not more than, all of the gunner tactics combined. I tip my hat to OP since this worked out really well for him, but I bet he could have been at least one of the top three people in his class doing 25% of the amount of work he did.


Some people have a working disorder. I don't mean that in a mean way, but I've observed it in the uber type A people I know. These people, while mostly intelligent, are grinds to the extreme. They have to do work, study every single day or else they feel guilty. If you finished your work, you finished your work. Now, this is just undergrad, but I'm sure this type persists.

Also, if it's not finals period, and you finish early for the day, why not just give yourself the rest of the day off for some r&r? Not only does it incentivize you to be efficient, I feel like it's unnecessarily punishing to force yourself to do extra work when you've met your already ambitious quota for the day.

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Holly Golightly
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Re: Guide to 1L Success from someone ranked #1.

Postby Holly Golightly » Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:23 pm

NYC Law wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:
NYC Law wrote:5 bucks says OP is a 0L trolling all the other 0Ls.


20 bucks says you're one of those posters who trolls 0Ls telling them that "0L prep is useless" and most people at my school with very high grades are "laid back" but "really smart and know how to apply law to fact". People push that garbage like mad on here but most of the people with tip top grades go berserk durinig 1L. Maybe not quite as beserk as the OP, but pretty damn wild. And honestly, the one's who are as high up as the OP do put in this kind of work.


Chill, I'm a 0L lol. It was just an amusing hypothetical.

But I don't really care either way, I've seen convincing arguments on both sides. It just seems like personal choice (I personally am going to do some 0L prep, just read the E&Es for a basic understanding).

E&Es before taking a class? I'm sorry, I just don't understand this. Wouldn't they be more useful after you're already, you know, learned the material and are prepping for exams? I feel like Getting to Maybe or LEEWS would be a much better use of your time (even if I found both to be utterly dull).

mscarn23
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Re: Guide to 1L Success from someone ranked #1.

Postby mscarn23 » Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:25 pm

I take it you're not an Ayn Rand fan, which is a shame... Anyway, like I said in my post, I had been out of the classroom for quite a while, and while running my business honed certain skills (client development, capacity to work long hours, employee management, etc.) these skills did not necessarily prepare me for law school. Not wanting to squander 1L year, I did everything in my power to be successful, and for the most part it worked.

As I've said, I can understand being wary of my approach, but I would disagree that successfully following it would be a predictor of big law burn-out. I spent 8 years growing and running my business and during that time I consistantly put in 80 hour+ work weeks. I would argue that someone who shudders at the idea of putting in as many hours of studying as I did- especially knowing the importance of 1L year- would be at a much higher risk of being chewed up and spit out if they managed to land big law after graduation. I know the pain of 12 hour days, the realities of both office and industry politics, and would begrudge no one who decided they didn't want that life.

Likewise, I can understand someone imagining a schedule like mine would make them suicidal, but it's really not that bad once you do it and get used to it. I prepped hard during 0L summer, but I also took a 2-week vacation to Scotland. I killed myself during the fall, but then I took a 12 day trip to Brazil over Christmas break. I studied like crazy during the spring, but it scored me a high-paying summer associate position which will fund my end-of-summer vacation. I managed to go to the gym every day, eat a great dinner every night (though my wife is entirely responsible for this aspect of things), drink many, many decent bottles of wine, and enjoy a great sex life.

If this makes you suicidal, then so be it, but for my tastes there are a lot worse ways to spend a year. Sure, I could have done things differently, but I also need to acknowledge that my idea of fun may not be the same as those who have trouble fathoming how I made it out alive. I could have made a million new friends, or gone to bar review every week, but let's level for a minute. I'm a married guy in my early 30's, who ran a successful business, and who takes pride in his 200 bottle wine cellar and collection of first editions. I don’t want to force my idea of a good time on people who are just looking to get drunk, play trivia, and forget about law school for a few hours, and there’s no reason I should force their idea of fun onto myself. I'm happy with a small group of good friends, and think I was successful in that respect during my 1L year. I'm not Vince Vaughn in "The Breakup," playing Madden and looking forward to quarter beer night, or Owen Wilson in “Hall Pass” trying to score floozies at Starbucks. (I should acknowledge that the interests which made me slightly less social with other students have had the opposite effect since starting work, but that’s not really my point with all this.)

Oh, and with regards to research points, they can definitely be lucrative- I'm sitting on around 11k Lexis points after my first year, and got a handful of free supplements and a free 1-year ABA membership thanks to raffles Lexis held at my school.

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Flips88
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Re: Guide to 1L Success from someone ranked #1.

Postby Flips88 » Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:30 pm

mscarn23 wrote:I take it you're not an Ayn Rand fan, which is a shame...

I lol'd

mscarn23
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Re: Guide to 1L Success from someone ranked #1.

Postby mscarn23 » Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:34 pm

What I mean is that even if you don't care for her philosophy there are some beautiful bits of writing in her books.

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glitter178
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Re: Guide to 1L Success from someone ranked #1.

Postby glitter178 » Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:38 pm

mscarn23 wrote:What I mean is that even if you don't care for her philosophy there are some beautiful bits of writing in her books.


i like her, but i can definitely understand how she's not for everyone.

ever see the simpsons episode where they send maggie to an ayn rand daycare (or was it a preschool)? pretty funny.

making this relevant, OP, i appreciate it very much and honestly, it doesn't really sound THAT awful. i've worked two jobs concurrently most of my life and through undergrad, so i haven't had a social life since i became an adult. i'm fine with continuing through 1L.

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2011Cycle
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Re: Guide to 1L Success from someone ranked #1.

Postby 2011Cycle » Fri Jun 10, 2011 7:05 pm

Nightrunner wrote:This is THE FORUM FOR LAW SCHOOL STUDENTS. If 0Ls want to come in here and ask a question, or thank OP for advice, then so be it. DO NOT come in here with your unfounded assumptions about OP or everything you know about law school/BigLaw before taking a single law school class. STFU or GTFO (third option: I help you GTFO).

Also: This is not - and will not become - an Ayn Rand thread. This is one of the more useful threads in some time. If you want to go off-topic, then don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.


Thank you Nightrunner(sincere, not BS'ing you). Thank you

Wactawshus
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Re: Guide to 1L Success from someone ranked #1.

Postby Wactawshus » Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:52 pm

Thanks OP!

crossingforHYS
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Re: Guide to 1L Success from someone ranked #1.

Postby crossingforHYS » Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:55 pm

Naked Dude wrote:
Wholigan wrote:
OP wrote: 68 paragraphs on being the uber gunner of all gunners


Renne Walker wrote:I just received my code to LexisNexis so I suppose reading indoors beats 103° outdoors!


crossingforHYS wrote:I'm ocd and will give this schedule a try.....but we will see


I know someone is going to dispute this, but OP has an LSAT score 13-15 points higher than the likely median at his school. That's extremely rare, and I'd say it plays into his #1 ranking as much as, if not more than, all of the gunner tactics combined. I tip my hat to OP since this worked out really well for him, but I bet he could have been at least one of the top three people in his class doing 25% of the amount of work he did.


Some people have a working disorder. I don't mean that in a mean way, but I've observed it in the uber type A people I know. These people, while mostly intelligent, are grinds to the extreme. They have to do work, study every single day or else they feel guilty. If you finished your work, you finished your work. Now, this is just undergrad, but I'm sure this type persists.

Also, if it's not finals period, and you finish early for the day, why not just give yourself the rest of the day off for some r&r? Not only does it incentivize you to be efficient, I feel like it's unnecessarily punishing to force yourself to do extra work when you've met your already ambitious quota for the day.


the working disorder= me :(.....I just can't shake it. I even feel guilty in the summer.

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FantasticMrFox
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Re: Guide to 1L Success from someone ranked #1.

Postby FantasticMrFox » Fri Jun 10, 2011 9:40 pm

crossingforHYS wrote:]the working disorder= me :(.....I just can't shake it. I even feel guilty in the summer.

it's a good thing; embrace it. At least you aren't a lazy procrastinating bum like moi

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Renne Walker
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Re: Guide to 1L Success from someone ranked #1.

Postby Renne Walker » Fri Jun 10, 2011 9:43 pm

mscarn23 wrote: I did everything in my power to be successful, and for the most part it worked.


I asked about this earlier, but since it was trampled somewhere in this active thread, here it is again―take II.

What are you doing (or what have you done) to prepare for OCI? Another way to ask the question―everything has gone your way (grades, etc.), your número uno OCI target is ready to meet with you. . . plz fill in the blanks!

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2011Cycle
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Re: Guide to 1L Success from someone ranked #1.

Postby 2011Cycle » Fri Jun 10, 2011 9:53 pm

Renne Walker wrote:
mscarn23 wrote: I did everything in my power to be successful, and for the most part it worked.


I asked about this earlier, but since it was trampled somewhere in this active thread, here it is again―take II.

What are you doing (or what have you done) to prepare for OCI? Another way to ask the question―everything has gone your way (grades, etc.), your número uno OCI target is ready to meet with you. . . plz fill in the blanks!



He mentioned a while back he is working at a market paying gig this summer. His OCI plans are basically done.

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Naked Dude
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Re: Guide to 1L Success from someone ranked #1.

Postby Naked Dude » Fri Jun 10, 2011 11:10 pm

Holly Golightly wrote:
NYC Law wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:
NYC Law wrote:5 bucks says OP is a 0L trolling all the other 0Ls.


20 bucks says you're one of those posters who trolls 0Ls telling them that "0L prep is useless" and most people at my school with very high grades are "laid back" but "really smart and know how to apply law to fact". People push that garbage like mad on here but most of the people with tip top grades go berserk durinig 1L. Maybe not quite as beserk as the OP, but pretty damn wild. And honestly, the one's who are as high up as the OP do put in this kind of work.


Chill, I'm a 0L lol. It was just an amusing hypothetical.

But I don't really care either way, I've seen convincing arguments on both sides. It just seems like personal choice (I personally am going to do some 0L prep, just read the E&Es for a basic understanding).

E&Es before taking a class? I'm sorry, I just don't understand this. Wouldn't they be more useful after you're already, you know, learned the material and are prepping for exams? I feel like Getting to Maybe or LEEWS would be a much better use of your time (even if I found both to be utterly dull).


I am most definitely doing GTM and LEEWS. A family friend who graduated law school in 93 still has a bunch of old hornbooks but I don't know if it's worth it. He told me those "nutshell" books are supposed to be good, but maybe times have changed. I'm at the point where I have the "working disorder" mindset of, you know, "more is more," and if I ONLY do GTM and LEEWS I will be behind. I don't care about wasting my time, because I'm not really doing anything else this summer, but I am worried about, as some people have said, getting confused, although I don't know if this is overblown.




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