Got an F - Dropping out....

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CanadianWolf
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby CanadianWolf » Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:08 pm

In which course did you receive a failing grade ?

What did the law dean tell you about your failing grade other than to affirm that it was justified after his review ?

keg411
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby keg411 » Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:33 pm

disbarred wrote:I don't want to out the Dean or prof. I attend a T20-30 school. I plan on meeting the prof soon and hopefully there's a clerical error or something. From my conversation with the Dean though, that doesn't seem to be the case. The Dean indicated that others had received D's and F's though. It's just a shitty situation so I thought I'd share. I'll be fine ultimately.


You guys don't get grade distributions for each class? Do you have a required mean?
I'm guessing the prof gave a ton of A+'s/A's and then a ton of bad grades... but that seems... odd.

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dailygrind
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby dailygrind » Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:39 pm

keg411 wrote:
disbarred wrote:I don't want to out the Dean or prof. I attend a T20-30 school. I plan on meeting the prof soon and hopefully there's a clerical error or something. From my conversation with the Dean though, that doesn't seem to be the case. The Dean indicated that others had received D's and F's though. It's just a shitty situation so I thought I'd share. I'll be fine ultimately.


You guys don't get grade distributions for each class? Do you have a required mean?
I'm guessing the prof gave a ton of A+'s/A's and then a ton of bad grades... but that seems... odd.


it's difficult for me to express the level of hell i would raise if i were in a class that balanced good grades with D's and F's, and then i got an F. it's far, far outside of the norm of law school, and that one course essentially bars you from ever having a stellar GPA. it's pretty absurd.

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yngblkgifted
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby yngblkgifted » Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:46 pm

Assuming this isn't a flame, I wish you the best of luck OP and I hope everything works out.....damn.

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blacklawboss
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby blacklawboss » Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:49 pm

disbarred wrote:I don't want to out the Dean or prof. I attend a T20-30 school. I plan on meeting the prof soon and hopefully there's a clerical error or something. From my conversation with the Dean though, that doesn't seem to be the case. The Dean indicated that others had received D's and F's though. It's just a shitty situation so I thought I'd share. I'll be fine ultimately.


Changed from T25 to T20-30 make up for mind sir

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haus
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby haus » Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:05 pm

blacklawboss wrote:Changed from T25 to T20-30 make up for mind sir


Perhaps a school that was recently T25, but has been dropping? Emory?

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Moxie
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby Moxie » Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:12 pm

disbarred wrote:I don't want to out the Dean or prof. I attend a T20-30 school. I plan on meeting the prof soon and hopefully there's a clerical error or something. From my conversation with the Dean though, that doesn't seem to be the case. The Dean indicated that others had received D's and F's though. It's just a shitty situation so I thought I'd share. I'll be fine ultimately.


I hate threads where people come in calling flame, but this is unheard of at any respectable law school. I hope for OP's sake that he's flaming, it just doesn't seem possible that a school would allow a professor to set the curve in such an extreme way.

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MTal
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby MTal » Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:15 pm

Welcome to the legal field. You fuck up big enough even 1 time, in school or in practice, and your career is effectively over.

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dailygrind
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby dailygrind » Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:18 pm

MTal wrote:Welcome to the legal field. You fuck up big enough even 1 time, in school or in practice, and your career is effectively over.


this is hardly unique to the law. you fuck up big enough in any field and your career is effectively over.

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haus
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby haus » Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:23 pm

dailygrind wrote:
MTal wrote:Welcome to the legal field. You fuck up big enough even 1 time, in school or in practice, and your career is effectively over.


this is hardly unique to the law. you fuck up big enough in any field and your career is effectively over.


If this were true, hardly none of our national level politicians would be employed.

Heck, the CEO of the most valuable technical company was effectively kicked out of the company that he had founded, before having a successful comeback years later.

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geoduck
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby geoduck » Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:24 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
geoduck wrote:Well we've already ruled out the privates, so I'll have to be a public. It's probably illogical and based on my view of the way public secondary schools work, but I always feel like public teachers have more push to not fail students.


In undergrad its definitely the opposite. They don't think twice about failing a student. Public undergrads have lower average GPA's than private. The whole "I pay your salary" thing doesn't really roll when you are paying 8K a year in tuition.

But public law schools pretty much operate like private ones.


That sounds about right. I did say it was illogical! I think it got drilled into me when I was going to Catholic high schools that the public high schools avoided giving F's because of all sorts of shit.

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geoduck
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby geoduck » Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:27 pm

haus wrote:
blacklawboss wrote:Changed from T25 to T20-30 make up for mind sir


Perhaps a school that was recently T25, but has been dropping? Emory?


Oooo! Oooo! If only it could be. Maybe OP wrote T25 and then realized that his school was no longer T25 when we started trying to figuring out where he goes. Wouldn't that just be golden if Emory were handing out F's in addition to its FuckYou commencement speech.

taxguy
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby taxguy » Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:28 pm

Disbarred, let me share my experience with you. It might make you feel better and make you reevaluate your decision.

When I was in law school, I generally did fairly well first semester. My first three grades that came out were A's in Civil Procedure , Torts and Legal Writing. I will admit that at the time, the law school that I attended had no nurturing at all. They never covered what to put in outlines other than case holdings. They never covered how to prepare outlines or even how to take tests. Kids who did well figured it out and those that didn't, suffered. I thought I did well on all exams until I got a "D" in contracts I. I was devastated. However, I had no desire to transfer anyway. I stuck it out, graduated and had several jobs, including legal internships, a position with a large accounting firm and as an attorney with the IRS. Eventually, I went out on my own and did very well.

I know that getting a horrible grade in a subject is very devastating. I really do feel your pain as it brings up my own pain incurred many years ago. However, if you really have the drive, you can overcome this deficit. Someone once said that "it isn't our successes that make us stronger. It is how we handle our failures and challenges that determine who we are."
Last edited by taxguy on Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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haus
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby haus » Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:29 pm

geoduck wrote:That sounds about right. I did say it was illogical! I think it got drilled into me when I was going to Catholic high schools that the public high schools avoided giving F's because of all sorts of shit.


I can see HS being a different game. In many cases if a public HS teacher fails someone, then they will simply end up having the same kid back in their class next year, what fun that would be.

Give them a C/D and they become someone else's problem.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby CanadianWolf » Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:30 pm

Most likely OP's post is a flame.

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BruceWayne
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby BruceWayne » Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:32 pm

dailygrind wrote:
MTal wrote:Welcome to the legal field. You fuck up big enough even 1 time, in school or in practice, and your career is effectively over.


this is hardly unique to the law. you fuck up big enough in any field and your career is effectively over.



What are you talking about? Outside of egregious mistakes that reflect incompetence (like injuring a patient in residency or in medical school), one mistake in school no less, does not "end your career". A single exam written in a way that a professor subjectively dislikes, on a forced curve , could doom you in the legal field. That we're graded on a forced curve, and not our competency on the subject, as in every other educational field, automatically puts us in a uniquely tumultuous situation. In a lot of ways legal education is more like sports than it is any other educational field. We grade more on "talent" (and I'm being generous with that) and competition than on competency. That's not the model used in other fields until you get into the work force. And in that case you're at least being "graded" on objective results--what you can do for a client. On exams you're just getting graded on whatever it is that your professor wants/likes.
haus wrote:If this were true, hardly none of our national level politicians would be employed.

Heck, the CEO of the most valuable technical company was effectively kicked out of the company that he had founded, before having a successful comeback years later.


Exactly.

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Kilpatrick
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby Kilpatrick » Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:35 pm

taxguy wrote:Disbarred, let me share my experience with you. It might make you feel better and make you reevaluate your decision.

When I was in law school, I generally did fairly well first semester. I will admit that at the time, the law school that I attended had no nurturing at all. They never covered what to put in outlines other than case holdings. They never covered how to prepare outlines or even how to take tests. Kids who did well figured it out and those that didn't, suffered. I thought I did well on all exams until I got a "D" in contracts I. I was devastated. However, I had no desire to transfer anyway. I stuck it out, graduated and had several jobs, including legal internships, a position with a large accounting firm and as an attorney with the IRS. Eventually, I went out on my own and did very well.

I know that getting a horrible grade in a subject is very devastating. I really do feel your pain as it brings up my own pain incurred many years ago. However, if you really have the drive, you can overcome this deficit. Someone once said that "it isn't our successes that make us stronger. It is how we handle our failures and challenges that determine who we are."


Didn't you go to school like 30 years ago? OP is not going to be able to overcome an F, he needs to drop out

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dailygrind
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby dailygrind » Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:40 pm

haus wrote:
dailygrind wrote:
MTal wrote:Welcome to the legal field. You fuck up big enough even 1 time, in school or in practice, and your career is effectively over.


this is hardly unique to the law. you fuck up big enough in any field and your career is effectively over.


If this were true, hardly none of our national level politicians would be employed.

Heck, the CEO of the most valuable technical company was effectively kicked out of the company that he had founded, before having a successful comeback years later.


note that receiving an F is anomalous in the extreme - most people here think that the OP is a flame because it's unheard of for a student in that school to get an F where there was even a semblance of effort put in. most people that skate by in class get a C at the worst (this is why everyone's telling him to fight it). besides that, your CEO example doesn't fit well because steve jobs is essentially an all A student with one black mark on his record (if you could even call it that). as for politicians, well, who knows what's going on there.

nickwar
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby nickwar » Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:40 pm

This is my nightmare scenario. I generally leave exams feeling pretty well about them. My scores then range from good to mediocre.

I don't know what I'd do if I actually failed one. I don't understand how that's possible on 1) an issue spotter and 2) that a prof. would be such a **** to actually fail you. Wtf?

taxguy
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby taxguy » Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:41 pm

Kilpatrick wrote:
taxguy wrote:Disbarred, let me share my experience with you. It might make you feel better and make you reevaluate your decision.

When I was in law school, I generally did fairly well first semester. I will admit that at the time, the law school that I attended had no nurturing at all. They never covered what to put in outlines other than case holdings. They never covered how to prepare outlines or even how to take tests. Kids who did well figured it out and those that didn't, suffered. I thought I did well on all exams until I got a "D" in contracts I. I was devastated. However, I had no desire to transfer anyway. I stuck it out, graduated and had several jobs, including legal internships, a position with a large accounting firm and as an attorney with the IRS. Eventually, I went out on my own and did very well.

I know that getting a horrible grade in a subject is very devastating. I really do feel your pain as it brings up my own pain incurred many years ago. However, if you really have the drive, you can overcome this deficit. Someone once said that "it isn't our successes that make us stronger. It is how we handle our failures and challenges that determine who we are."


Didn't you go to school like 30 years ago? OP is not going to be able to overcome an F, he needs to drop out

I was trying to come up with a clever response to you,but my only response to your comment is, "Bullshit!"
What he needs to do is to reevaluate his priorities and really ask himself what he wants to do with his life. If being a lawyer is still important, he should check with the professor and see what he missed. He should check out his options. Maybe dropping out is the right course and maybe it isn't,but it surely isn't his only course of action and may not be his best course of action either.

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BruceWayne
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby BruceWayne » Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:49 pm

dailygrind wrote:note that receiving an F is anomalous in the extreme - most people here think that the OP is a flame because it's unheard of for a student in that school to get an F where there was even a semblance of effort put in. most people that skate by in class get a C at the worst (this is why everyone's telling him to fight it). besides that, your CEO example doesn't fit well because steve jobs is essentially an all A student with one black mark on his record (if you could even call it that). as for politicians, well, who knows what's going on there.



I'm sorry but you (and others) are pulling this out of your ass. I guess you all are assuming this because you haven't gotten an F, but I know for a fact, just from looking at the grade distribution information kept in Slaughter, that people routinely receive F's at our school alone--not even to speak of C's. And for the record I've looked at C exams; frankly they displayed A LOT more than a "semblance" of effort. Really they don't look too different from a B+ exam. Usually they're just short (10 pages or less), have a lot of typos, answered one question in the alternative, or they didn't finish the last question. What you're describing as deserving of a C (only putting in a "semblance of effort") is an F.

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dailygrind
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby dailygrind » Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:49 pm

BruceWayne wrote:
dailygrind wrote:
MTal wrote:Welcome to the legal field. You fuck up big enough even 1 time, in school or in practice, and your career is effectively over.


this is hardly unique to the law. you fuck up big enough in any field and your career is effectively over.



What are you talking about? Outside of egregious mistakes that reflect incompetence (like injuring a patient in residency or in medical school), one mistake in school no less, does not "end your career". A single exam written in a way that a professor subjectively dislikes, on a forced curve , could doom you in the legal field. That we're graded on a forced curve, and not our competency on the subject, as in every other educational field, automatically puts us in a uniquely tumultuous situation. In a lot of ways legal education is more like sports than it is any other educational field. We grade more on "talent" (and I'm being generous with that) and competition than on competency. That's not the model used in other fields until you get into the work force. And in that case you're at least being "graded" on objective results--what you can do for a client. On exams you're just getting graded on whatever it is that your professor wants/likes.
haus wrote:If this were true, hardly none of our national level politicians would be employed.

Heck, the CEO of the most valuable technical company was effectively kicked out of the company that he had founded, before having a successful comeback years later.


Exactly.


you know as well as i do how egregious an F is. i've never even heard of anyone getting anything less than a D on an exam they showed up for, and i think i've checked around 1000 grades looking at grade distribution patterns. frankly, the D's that I saw were extreme outliers already. an F doesn't reflect an exam that the professor subjectively dislikes - an F reflects an exam that has reached up, slapped the professor in the face, and then pissed in his cheerios (once again, this is why everyone has told this dude to fight it).

09042014
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby 09042014 » Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:51 pm

BruceWayne wrote:
dailygrind wrote:note that receiving an F is anomalous in the extreme - most people here think that the OP is a flame because it's unheard of for a student in that school to get an F where there was even a semblance of effort put in. most people that skate by in class get a C at the worst (this is why everyone's telling him to fight it). besides that, your CEO example doesn't fit well because steve jobs is essentially an all A student with one black mark on his record (if you could even call it that). as for politicians, well, who knows what's going on there.



I'm sorry but you (and others) are pulling this out of your ass. I guess you all are assuming this because you haven't gotten an F, but I know for a fact, just from looking at the grade distribution information kept in Slaughter, that people routinely receive F's at our school alone--not even to speak of C's. And for the record I've looked at C exams; frankly they displayed A LOT more than a "semblance" of effort. Really they don't look too different from a B+ exam. Usually they're just short (10 pages or less), have a lot of typos, answered one question in the alternative, or they didn't finish the last question. What you're describing as deserving of a C (only putting in a "semblance of effort") is an F.


I really doubt people routinely get F's. Nobody got a D or an F at my school first semester. In order to give you, the professor has to petition the Dean of Students. It's pretty much just people who cheat.

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dailygrind
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby dailygrind » Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:52 pm

BruceWayne wrote:
dailygrind wrote:note that receiving an F is anomalous in the extreme - most people here think that the OP is a flame because it's unheard of for a student in that school to get an F where there was even a semblance of effort put in. most people that skate by in class get a C at the worst (this is why everyone's telling him to fight it). besides that, your CEO example doesn't fit well because steve jobs is essentially an all A student with one black mark on his record (if you could even call it that). as for politicians, well, who knows what's going on there.



I'm sorry but you (and others) are pulling this out of your ass. I guess you all are assuming this because you haven't gotten an F, but I know for a fact, just from looking at the grade distribution information kept in Slaughter, that people routinely receive F's at our school alone--not even to speak of C's. And for the record I've looked at C exams; frankly they displayed A LOT more than a "semblance" of effort. Really they don't look too different from a B+ exam. Usually they're just short (10 pages or less), have a lot of typos, answered one question in the alternative, or they didn't finish the last question. What you're describing as deserving of a C (only putting in a "semblance of effort") is an F.


i call BS on this entire thing.

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TheFutureLawyer
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby TheFutureLawyer » Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:52 pm

dailygrind wrote:
haus wrote:
dailygrind wrote:
MTal wrote:Welcome to the legal field. You fuck up big enough even 1 time, in school or in practice, and your career is effectively over.


this is hardly unique to the law. you fuck up big enough in any private field and your career is effectively over.


If this were true, hardly none of our national level politicians would be employed.

Heck, the CEO of the most valuable technical company was effectively kicked out of the company that he had founded, before having a successful comeback years later.


note that receiving an F is anomalous in the extreme - most people here think that the OP is a flame because it's unheard of for a student in that school to get an F where there was even a semblance of effort put in. most people that skate by in class get a C at the worst (this is why everyone's telling him to fight it). besides that, your CEO example doesn't fit well because steve jobs is essentially an all A student with one black mark on his record (if you could even call it that). as for politicians, well, who knows what's going on there.


ftfy.

you could say that the CEOs of fortune 500s and banks with 100+ billion in assets failed miserably and didn't lose their jobs... but in fact what happened was they failed so incredibly that they came out the other side okay (bailout), so in the end they didn't really fail.




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