Got an F - Dropping out....

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MauveDinosaur
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby MauveDinosaur » Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:18 pm

Ahh, so much for goin' "balls to the wall" on this. Raised a bit of hell. Dean gave a half-assed explanation that professors "agonize" over giving very low grades and that "fairness" guides the whole evaluation process. :roll: She says that I'm stuck with the godforsaken F and must retake the course for a chance at an *illustrious* C. Thankfully, it will be with a different prof. Speaking of which, if character and fitness weren't a consideration, I would totally, take a sh*t on the man's desk...and maybe pee on his doorknob for good measure. :twisted:

Funny thing is (well, I shouldn't say "funny" since this unenviable situation has potentially frightening consequences for my employability) that my level of preparation for the F exam was comparable to that of my B+ (above median) paper in Crim. :shock: Weird as fuuuuuuck.

Still on the fence regarding cutting my losses. If I were BigLaw or Bust and/or hated the practice of law (I don't--my summer internship is enjoyable), this would have been a very easy decision.

Thanks for the support and input, folks. I would not wish this nightmare on my worst enemy. :|

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stillwater
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby stillwater » Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:21 pm

MauveDinosaur wrote:Ahh, so much for goin' "balls to the wall" on this. Raised a bit of hell. Dean gave a half-assed explanation that professors "agonize" over giving very low grades and that "fairness" guides the whole evaluation process. :roll: She says that I'm stuck with the godforsaken F and must retake the course for a chance at an *illustrious* C. Thankfully, it will be with a different prof. Speaking of which, if character and fitness weren't a consideration, I would totally, take a sh*t on the man's desk...and maybe pee on his doorknob for good measure. :twisted:

Funny thing is (well, I shouldn't say "funny" since this unenviable situation has potentially frightening consequences for my employability) that my level of preparation for the F exam was comparable to that of my B+ (above median) paper in Crim. :shock: Weird as fuuuuuuck.

Still on the fence regarding cutting my losses. If I were BigLaw or Bust and/or hated the practice of law (I don't--my summer internship is enjoyable), this would have been a very easy decision.

Thanks for the support and input, folks. I would not wish this nightmare on my worst enemy. :|


you should definitely cut your losses and run.

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cinephile
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby cinephile » Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:29 pm

I don't see how shitting on someone's desk would violate C&F. If asked if you were the one who did it, you should come clean because dishonesty is a violation. But defecating on the desk of a professor shouldn't be an ethical violation in and of itself. I say go for it.

Also, I'd probably drop out. An F ruins your employment opportunities up until you retake and get a C, even for small firms, PI, etc. types of things. So you won't replace that F until spring of next year which means you're out of luck in terms of the 2L job search even if you don't want biglaw. You think the school would want your continued tuition payments enough to just give you the C now.
Last edited by cinephile on Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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MauveDinosaur
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby MauveDinosaur » Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:32 pm

cinephile wrote:I don't see how shitting on someone's desk would violate C&F. If asked if you were the one who did it, you should come clean because dishonesty is a violation. But defecating on the desk of a professor shouldn't be an ethical violation in and of itself. I say go for it.


I like where your head's at. :lol:

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.

Postby Myself » Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:56 am

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Last edited by Myself on Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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MauveDinosaur
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby MauveDinosaur » Tue Jun 18, 2013 1:27 am

cinephile wrote:
Also, I'd probably drop out. An F ruins your employment opportunities up until you retake and get a C, even for small firms, PI, etc. types of things. So you won't replace that F until spring of next year which means you're out of luck in terms of the 2L job search even if you don't want biglaw. You think the school would want your continued tuition payments enough to just give you the C now.


Interesting you would say that, since the overwhelming majority of the gov/PI jobs I applied to (including the one I'm at) did not ask for transcripts, nor did my interviewers even discuss grades with me...they seemed more interested in my past work/volunteer experience and foreign language abilities. worldtraveler, an employed 2012 Boalt grad on here said that she has applied to ~200 PI positions during her three years, and hardly a handful asked for transcripts...the lovely OperaSoprano (also happily employed recent grad) expressed the same sentiments. [I KNOW, that's just 2 data points]

so...fucking...torn, ugh! Day by day the urge to sh*t on his desk gets stronger!!! :x

mettasutta
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby mettasutta » Tue Jun 18, 2013 1:55 am

MauveDinosaur wrote:
cinephile wrote:
Also, I'd probably drop out. An F ruins your employment opportunities up until you retake and get a C, even for small firms, PI, etc. types of things. So you won't replace that F until spring of next year which means you're out of luck in terms of the 2L job search even if you don't want biglaw. You think the school would want your continued tuition payments enough to just give you the C now.


Interesting you would say that, since the overwhelming majority of the gov/PI jobs I applied to (including the one I'm at) did not ask for transcripts, nor did my interviewers even discuss grades with me...they seemed more interested in my past work/volunteer experience and foreign language abilities. worldtraveler, an employed 2012 Boalt grad on here said that she has applied to ~200 PI positions during her three years, and hardly a handful asked for transcripts...the lovely OperaSoprano (also happily employed recent grad) expressed the same sentiments. [I KNOW, that's just 2 data points]

so...fucking...torn, ugh! Day by day the urge to sh*t on his desk gets stronger!!! :x


DOOOOO ITTTTTT!!! :lol:

--ImageRemoved--

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:46 pm

MauveDinosaur wrote:Ahh, so much for goin' "balls to the wall" on this. Raised a bit of hell. Dean gave a half-assed explanation that professors "agonize" over giving very low grades and that "fairness" guides the whole evaluation process. :roll: She says that I'm stuck with the godforsaken F and must retake the course for a chance at an *illustrious* C. Thankfully, it will be with a different prof. Speaking of which, if character and fitness weren't a consideration, I would totally, take a sh*t on the man's desk...and maybe pee on his doorknob for good measure. :twisted:

Funny thing is (well, I shouldn't say "funny" since this unenviable situation has potentially frightening consequences for my employability) that my level of preparation for the F exam was comparable to that of my B+ (above median) paper in Crim. :shock: Weird as fuuuuuuck.

Still on the fence regarding cutting my losses. If I were BigLaw or Bust and/or hated the practice of law (I don't--my summer internship is enjoyable), this would have been a very easy decision.

Thanks for the support and input, folks. I would not wish this nightmare on my worst enemy. :|

Do you understand what the hell you did to get an F? Are you really sure this isn't a mistake somehow? It just frankly seems unfathomable that you'd get an F at a T30 school if you wrote down any words that were vaguely related to the class.

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MauveDinosaur
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby MauveDinosaur » Tue Jun 18, 2013 1:47 pm

I demanded that the Dean tell me EXACTLY what I did on the exam to merit an F. She just evaded the question and said generally that professors strive for fairness in the grading process, have discretion to give out Fs. etc.

Scared to meet with the prof in person. Not even sure if he knows the F is me, given that grading is blind. :oops: In my home city for the summer but will return in mid-August. Maybe by then I'll have cooled down enough to face him. Even if I do cut my losses, I would like an explanation from the bastard.
Last edited by MauveDinosaur on Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:00 pm

MauveDinosaur wrote:I demanded that the Dean tell me EXACTLY what I did on the exam to merit an F. She just evaded the question and said generally that professors strive for fairness in the grading process, have discretion to give out Fs. etc. No clerical error.

Scared to meet with the prof in person. Not even sure if he knows the F is me, given that grading is blind. :oops: In my home city for the summer but will return in mid-August. Maybe by then I'll have cooled down enough to face him. Even if I do cut my losses, I would like an explanation from the bastard.

I guess it's a good idea to cool off if you're still upset, but I would talk to the prof sooner than later. Just because the prof has the discretion to give out an F doesn't necessarily mean he intended to, or that he didn't somehow miss something that would have justified a higher grade.

NYstate
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby NYstate » Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:08 pm

dixiecupdrinking wrote:
MauveDinosaur wrote:I demanded that the Dean tell me EXACTLY what I did on the exam to merit an F. She just evaded the question and said generally that professors strive for fairness in the grading process, have discretion to give out Fs. etc. No clerical error.

Scared to meet with the prof in person. Not even sure if he knows the F is me, given that grading is blind. :oops: In my home city for the summer but will return in mid-August. Maybe by then I'll have cooled down enough to face him. Even if I do cut my losses, I would like an explanation from the bastard.

I guess it's a good idea to cool off if you're still upset, but I would talk to the prof sooner than later. Just because the prof has the discretion to give out an F doesn't necessarily mean he intended to, or that he didn't somehow miss something that would have justified a higher grade.

I'm sure the Dean and the Professor have discussed your grade if they are at all competent. Just try to deal with this now as best you can, if only to find out why you got that grade.

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cinephile
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby cinephile » Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:15 pm

dixiecupdrinking wrote:Do you understand what the hell you did to get an F? Are you really sure this isn't a mistake somehow? It just frankly seems unfathomable that you'd get an F at a T30 school if you wrote down any words that were vaguely related to the class.


Seriously. I'm at a T30 school as well and once answered an essay on a three essay exam (all worth equal points) by saying, "You never taught us this concept." And while I got zero points for that question, the professor didn't get so pissed off that he failed me. And missing a third of the points available didn't even tank my grade that much because Cs are discretionary and he wasn't going to give anyone below a B- so long as you showed up and wrote something. Even if part of that something was accusing him of not properly teaching the material. I think this is normal for law school.

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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:37 pm

cinephile wrote:
dixiecupdrinking wrote:Do you understand what the hell you did to get an F? Are you really sure this isn't a mistake somehow? It just frankly seems unfathomable that you'd get an F at a T30 school if you wrote down any words that were vaguely related to the class.


Seriously. I'm at a T30 school as well and once answered an essay on a three essay exam (all worth equal points) by saying, "You never taught us this concept." And while I got zero points for that question, the professor didn't get so pissed off that he failed me. And missing a third of the points available didn't even tank my grade that much because Cs are discretionary and he wasn't going to give anyone below a B- so long as you showed up and wrote something. Even if part of that something was accusing him of not properly teaching the material. I think this is normal for law school.

lol. well done.

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MauveDinosaur
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby MauveDinosaur » Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:38 pm

dixiecupdrinking wrote:
cinephile wrote:
dixiecupdrinking wrote:Do you understand what the hell you did to get an F? Are you really sure this isn't a mistake somehow? It just frankly seems unfathomable that you'd get an F at a T30 school if you wrote down any words that were vaguely related to the class.


Seriously. I'm at a T30 school as well and once answered an essay on a three essay exam (all worth equal points) by saying, "You never taught us this concept." And while I got zero points for that question, the professor didn't get so pissed off that he failed me. And missing a third of the points available didn't even tank my grade that much because Cs are discretionary and he wasn't going to give anyone below a B- so long as you showed up and wrote something. Even if part of that something was accusing him of not properly teaching the material. I think this is normal for law school.

lol. well done.


That was pretty ballsy, cinephile. :lol:

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MauveDinosaur
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby MauveDinosaur » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:02 pm

So, should I email the prof and ask for an explanation over email? Or email him and ask to set up at time to talk over the phone? (like I said, most likely not back on campus until mid-Aug.) Either way, painfully awkward, but I want some fucking closure...

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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby BlueBerryBus » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:29 pm

MauveDinosaur wrote:So, should I email the prof and ask for an explanation over email? Or email him and ask to set up at time to talk over the phone? (like I said, most likely not back on campus until mid-Aug.) Either way, painfully awkward, but I want some fucking closure...



Yes, you should email the Prof and ask for an explanation over email and you should request a time to meet with him even if it's next semester. I had a very similar experience during my undergrad and the Prof gave me a VERY hard time at first, through email. When I met with him face to face, and made my case, he admitted that he had me mistaken for someone else. If I were you, I would take every piece of paper related to that class with me (notes, outlines, emails) and I would show him my grades in other courses. If he doesn't budge, you should talk to him about how this one grade directly affects your job prospects, ect.....work every angle. Have a rebuttal for every point that he made in his email, even if you have to get creative and defer to your undertanding of the material as he taught it. At this point, what do you have to lose in fighting this? You've come this far, don't fumble on the one.

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stillwater
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby stillwater » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:36 pm

MauveDinosaur wrote:So, should I email the prof and ask for an explanation over email? Or email him and ask to set up at time to talk over the phone? (like I said, most likely not back on campus until mid-Aug.) Either way, painfully awkward, but I want some fucking closure...


ya. you need an explanation. as it stands right now, if you did flunk staight up then you should pobably cut and run. law just isnt your thing. however if it was just him being ridiculous, you gotta fight hard. easier to do the earlier you start.

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cinephile
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby cinephile » Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:39 pm

stillwater wrote:
MauveDinosaur wrote:So, should I email the prof and ask for an explanation over email? Or email him and ask to set up at time to talk over the phone? (like I said, most likely not back on campus until mid-Aug.) Either way, painfully awkward, but I want some fucking closure...


ya. you need an explanation. as it stands right now, if you did flunk staight up then you should pobably cut and run. law just isnt your thing. however if it was just him being ridiculous, you gotta fight hard. easier to do the earlier you start.


Agreed. Dropping out is a big move, so you might as well be 100% that this isn't a mistake. I really don't see how he could fail someone who wrote something unless he thinks you cheated somehow or there was a clerical or computer error - like examsoft forgot to save your responses and it looks like you only answered part of the exam or nothing at all.

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MauveDinosaur
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby MauveDinosaur » Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:24 pm

cinephile wrote:
stillwater wrote:
MauveDinosaur wrote:So, should I email the prof and ask for an explanation over email? Or email him and ask to set up at time to talk over the phone? (like I said, most likely not back on campus until mid-Aug.) Either way, painfully awkward, but I want some fucking closure...


ya. you need an explanation. as it stands right now, if you did flunk staight up then you should pobably cut and run. law just isnt your thing. however if it was just him being ridiculous, you gotta fight hard. easier to do the earlier you start.


Agreed. Dropping out is a big move, so you might as well be 100% that this isn't a mistake. I really don't see how he could fail someone who wrote something unless he thinks you cheated somehow or there was a clerical or computer error - like examsoft forgot to save your responses and it looks like you only answered part of the exam or nothing at all.


^Good point. As terrified as I am of the prof I owe it to myself to muster the courage to approach him and find out what really happened, since the Dean is so vague and seems to like parroting the same platitudes about "fairness". If prof. suspected me of cheating, he would be required to report it to the administration, so that's not it. Praying that there was some kind of clerical/computer error, though you'd think with a grade as rare and jarring as an F at a T30, the administration would have looked into it already without my asking. This is just so fucking bizarre, given that I received OK and even decent grades in classes in which I put in comparable effort.
Last edited by MauveDinosaur on Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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MauveDinosaur
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby MauveDinosaur » Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:36 pm

stillwater wrote: as it stands right now, if you did flunk staight up then you should pobably cut and run. law just isnt your thing.


:? Just because I (possibly) f'ed up once doesn't mean law isn't "my thing"...I did book Ks last back in the fall, you know. Alas! those were the days when I thought I had some handle on this law school stuff...never thought in my wildest dreams that it would come to this :cry:

ClubberLang
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby ClubberLang » Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:45 pm

MauveDinosaur wrote:
stillwater wrote: as it stands right now, if you did flunk staight up then you should pobably cut and run. law just isnt your thing.


:? Just because I (possibly) f'ed up once doesn't mean law isn't "my thing"...I did book Ks last back in the fall, you know. Alas! those were the days when I thought I had some handle on this law school stuff...never thought in my wildest dreams that it would come to this :cry:


Are you having personal issues, or maybe attendance issues this semester? Booking K's is a pretty big deal, and shows you are capable of doing well. However I find it strange that your frame of reference for doing well this semester is a B+ in some other class. It seems like your performance is wildly inconsistent if nothing else.

If the F was based on the quality of your work though, it absolutely means that law school is not "your thing".

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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby BaiAilian2013 » Wed Jun 19, 2013 1:02 pm

BlueBerryBus wrote:
MauveDinosaur wrote:So, should I email the prof and ask for an explanation over email? Or email him and ask to set up at time to talk over the phone? (like I said, most likely not back on campus until mid-Aug.) Either way, painfully awkward, but I want some fucking closure...



Yes, you should email the Prof and ask for an explanation over email and you should request a time to meet with him even if it's next semester. I had a very similar experience during my undergrad and the Prof gave me a VERY hard time at first, through email. When I met with him face to face, and made my case, he admitted that he had me mistaken for someone else.

This is credited advice - do both, ASAP. Don't make the youthful mistake of trusting people's word because they are in positions of authority (particularly the dean).

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MauveDinosaur
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby MauveDinosaur » Wed Jun 19, 2013 1:26 pm

ClubberLang wrote:
MauveDinosaur wrote:
stillwater wrote: as it stands right now, if you did flunk staight up then you should pobably cut and run. law just isnt your thing.


:? Just because I (possibly) f'ed up once doesn't mean law isn't "my thing"...I did book Ks last back in the fall, you know. Alas! those were the days when I thought I had some handle on this law school stuff...never thought in my wildest dreams that it would come to this :cry:


Are you having personal issues, or maybe attendance issues this semester? Booking K's is a pretty big deal, and shows you are capable of doing well. However I find it strange that your frame of reference for doing well this semester is a B+ in some other class. It seems like your performance is wildly inconsistent if nothing else.

If the F was based on the quality of your work though, it absolutely means that law school is not "your thing".


Just looked at the academic handbook. My school doesn't fail people for poor attendance alone.

I mentioned the B+ in Crim not necessarily as a frame of reference for doing well. I mentioned that as an example of exam for which my preparation and knowledge was comparable to the F exam. My understanding of the material was better for Ks, and I obviously did better. Median at my school is between and B and B+.

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MauveDinosaur
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby MauveDinosaur » Wed Jun 19, 2013 1:28 pm

BaiAilian2013 wrote:
BlueBerryBus wrote:
MauveDinosaur wrote:So, should I email the prof and ask for an explanation over email? Or email him and ask to set up at time to talk over the phone? (like I said, most likely not back on campus until mid-Aug.) Either way, painfully awkward, but I want some fucking closure...



Yes, you should email the Prof and ask for an explanation over email and you should request a time to meet with him even if it's next semester. I had a very similar experience during my undergrad and the Prof gave me a VERY hard time at first, through email. When I met with him face to face, and made my case, he admitted that he had me mistaken for someone else.

This is credited advice - do both, ASAP. Don't make the youthful mistake of trusting people's word because they are in positions of authority (particularly the dean).


Will do. *cringe*

andythefir
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby andythefir » Wed Jun 19, 2013 1:32 pm

For what it's worth, I sincerely doubt anyone who can book Contracts can deserve an F. There has to be some glitch somewhere, either with the exam software or with the printer or whatever. I would be very interested to see if the registrar pitches a fit about the changes to the curve. In a 3.3 curve 1 F enables 5 As.




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