Got an F - Dropping out....

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bceagles182
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby bceagles182 » Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:52 pm

MauveDinosaur wrote:Umm...so I've been scouring the forums over the past day or so to find a TLS'er who experienced a similar predicament. Unfortunately, this thread has become painfully, horrifyingly relevant to my needs. I'm a T30 rising 2L and just found out I got an "F" in one of my classes. :shock: :oops: I felt mediocre about the exam (which was taken in the wake of my dad getting into a serious car accident :( ) but I never in my wildest dreams would have envisioned this happening, esp. since profs at the caliber of schools I attend typically don't fail students who put forth a good faith effort--which I thought I did.

I was informed by the Dean that I would have to retake the course, which would erase the "F" from my transcript, but I could not receive anything higher than a "C" on the retaken exam. This is a TOTAL aberration compared to the rest of my transcript. I ended up with a B/B+ average the fall semester, which was not terrible considering my career goals (total bleeding heart PI gunner here; not interested in BigLaw in the slightest) I did get an "A" in Ks, so I obviously have the potential to succeed. I also desire a career in law and have absolutely LOVED the pro bono work I did last year and my summer gig so far, which makes the situation even more difficult--if I despised the study and practice of law, I would have cut my losses and left without hesitation.

Please help...I've been like numb for the past 24 hours from the shock... :cry:


Getting a C sucks but one C won't decimate your job prospects entirely, especially if you want to do PI. I would advise you to meet with career services during your 1L summer to discuss a plan, and to start getting practical PI experience asap.

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PDaddy
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby PDaddy » Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:53 pm

This thread seems like another flame to discourage people from going to law school. OP's situation could be real, but why come to TLS and do this? I'm not sure I even buy this story. People who truly have the strength to be lawyers don't give up at the first sign of trouble. A "0.0" will hurt the GPA for sure, but over the course of three years it could be just a bad grade...a blip from which a student recovered.

If I was a recruiter I would see strength in a person not giving up.

Moreover, OP's argument is self-defeating. He aptly notes that people in the top-20% with Law Review are not getting jobs. So I would then ask, "So, how are you different from them?" If anything, this bad climate is the best time to get an "F", because you are still on level ground with students performing much better. As OP will have to fight for a job, so will they.

I know a guy who wound up on academic probation in his first year at Vermont but wound up at a boutique firm pulling down about $80K. That's a potential outcome that many people, including OP, could probably embrace right now.
Last edited by PDaddy on Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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bceagles182
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby bceagles182 » Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:53 pm

Nova wrote:
bceagles182 wrote:Based on the comments ("It's okay. You shouldn't drop out because you'll still be a lawyer if you finish"), I'm guessing that a lot of the people on here are 0Ls, in which case you people need to get out of the law student forum.

As for the OP, if you are still around, you have my condolences, but I would drop out if I was you.

Regarding the rarity of Fs, there were a few in my 1L section but those people weren't allowed to sit for the exam because they had too many absences. The lowest grade anyone who actually took the exam received was a D.

Thread is 2 years old


Ah yes, I am an idiot. Well I responded to the bumper as well

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kiwi4president
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby kiwi4president » Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:54 pm

bceagles182 wrote: Getting a C sucks but one C won't decimate your job prospects entirely, especially if you want to do PI. I would advise you to meet with career services during your 1L summer to discuss a plan, and to start getting practical PI experience asap.


Dude, reading comprehension...

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:56 pm

MauveDinosaur - have you checked to make sure there was no error? Normally I don't advocate challenging grades, but that's usually someone who has a B or maybe a C who thinks they should have got an A. An F is such a big deal that it's worth at least checking into it to make sure it's correct (there was someone last semester who ostensibly got an F and found out that Examsoft ate the last 2 pages of their exam and it got fixed. I say ostensibly because since it's TLS, who knows if it's true? but in theory, anyway, it happened).

If, however, it's correct - I don't know, I guess I would consider retaking if you can get it erased for a C? A C is not great, but if you're not interested in biglaw it doesn't have to sink you (the PD and DA people I know never got asked for their grades, for instance). I say this since you love the work so much. One issue would be the timing - would you be able to complete the retake and get the F erased before having to apply for 2L summer stuff (if you apply to stuff that wants transcripts)?

Good luck.

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bceagles182
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby bceagles182 » Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:58 pm

kiwi4president wrote:
bceagles182 wrote: Getting a C sucks but one C won't decimate your job prospects entirely, especially if you want to do PI. I would advise you to meet with career services during your 1L summer to discuss a plan, and to start getting practical PI experience asap.


Dude, reading comprehension...



"I was informed by the Dean that I would have to retake the course, which would erase the "F" from my transcript, but I could not receive anything higher than a "C" on the retaken exam."


Are you sure that I need to focus on reading comprehension?

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Nova
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby Nova » Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:58 pm

kiwi4president wrote:
bceagles182 wrote: Getting a C sucks but one C won't decimate your job prospects entirely, especially if you want to do PI. I would advise you to meet with career services during your 1L summer to discuss a plan, and to start getting practical PI experience asap.


Dude, reading comprehension...

Do you think bc is replying to the OP?

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MauveDinosaur
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby MauveDinosaur » Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:59 pm

kiwi4president wrote:
bceagles182 wrote: Getting a C sucks but one C won't decimate your job prospects entirely, especially if you want to do PI. I would advise you to meet with career services during your 1L summer to discuss a plan, and to start getting practical PI experience asap.


Dude, reading comprehension...


If I retake the course I flunked and don't completely fuck up, I'll get a C in that course.

Oh yeah, I was hustlin' like cray even before this disaster...cold-emailing alums, setting up lunch dates, going to networking events, joining local bar associations, doing pro bono work in the community etc.

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bceagles182
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby bceagles182 » Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:59 pm

He can retake for a C... which, as I said, wouldn't kill him.

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stillwater
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby stillwater » Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:00 pm

I don't get how you get an F because that must be discretionary. Prof must be a real dick.

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Nova
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby Nova » Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:04 pm

MauveDinosaur wrote:If I retake the course I flunked and don't completely fuck up, I'll get a C in that course.

Oh yeah, I was hustlin' like cray even before this disaster...cold-emailing alums, setting up lunch dates, going to networking events, joining local bar associations, doing pro bono work in the community etc.

I think you can overcome it.
Last edited by Nova on Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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MauveDinosaur
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby MauveDinosaur » Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:04 pm

stillwater wrote:I don't get how you get an F because that must be discretionary. Prof must be a real dick.


No kidding, lol. The Dean even strongly suggested that I NOT retake it with him!

Thanks for the support and suggestions, guys. I want a career in PI so bad, and find the work incredibly fulfilling. Really hope that I can move upwards and onwards from this nightmare. I will look into whether there was some sort of clerical error...pray for me! :cry:

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MauveDinosaur
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby MauveDinosaur » Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:50 pm

Any suggestions on what I can do to overcome this aberration from a jobs search perspective? An EJW fellow who graduated from my school 2 years ago said that EJW doesn't even ask for transcripts, although I'm sure that fellowship is still ridiculously competitive in other respects. I also know of a minority Legal Aid fellowship that doesn't ask for grades that is based in my home-state, where I'm working this summer and hustlin', lol. Any other sorts of employers who are known to not even ask for grades? I'm talking post-grad, not summer internships, which I know from the 1L PI job search routinely forgo asking applicants to send transcripts. I attend a strong regional T30 and I know I can get get solid references from my Ks prof (got the top grade in that class) and current/former employers.

Please help. :( I've just been so stultified and baffled about this shitstain on my transcript over the past few days, esp. since my other grades show that I have a lot of potential and that I'm not unfit for the study of law. Like I said previously, if I hated the law or had a "BigLaw or Bust" mentality, I would have dropped out without hesitation and never looked back, but my goals are quite different from the garden variety TLS'er.

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Samara
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby Samara » Wed Jun 05, 2013 8:01 pm

What's your debt load going to be?

The good news is that you want PI and PI orgs care a lot less about grades. If you can retake the class up to a C, I don't think you'd be poor off enough to drop out.

I'm not sure that there's a lot you can do about it though that you shouldn't be doing anyway. Maybe make more of an effort to take easy classes? Step it up on the networking front? Do externships during the school year?

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MauveDinosaur
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby MauveDinosaur » Wed Jun 05, 2013 8:10 pm

Not bad, but nothing to sneeze at. Overall debt will be ~$80K--got a merit scholly from my school, an outside PI scholly, and family is helping with living expenses. Living lean over the summer by staying in my hometown with my folks instead of renting an apt.

Yeah, next year I'll be doing a clinic (which, I hear is actually more valuable to PI employers than journal), and continuing pro bono volunteering, networking, etc.

needajob
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby needajob » Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:28 pm

If you're interested in public interest work (specifically federal government), look into the Presidential Management Fellowship program. Qualifying as a finalist has NOTHING to do with your grades and everything to do with giving responses to a personality survey that a federal government leadership program would want to hear. It puts you on the fast track for a GREAT job in a federal agency with great job security that pays well.

Myself
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Postby Myself » Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:34 pm

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Last edited by Myself on Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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MauveDinosaur
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby MauveDinosaur » Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:37 pm

needajob wrote:If you're interested in public interest work (specifically federal government), look into the Presidential Management Fellowship program. Qualifying as a finalist has NOTHING to do with your grades and everything to do with giving responses to a personality survey that a federal government leadership program would want to hear. It puts you on the fast track for a GREAT job in a federal agency with great job security that pays well.


Wow, thanks, good to know. I had heard of this but assumed it was wayyy outta my league!

thelawdoctor
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby thelawdoctor » Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:39 pm

ajax adonis wrote:Good luck man. You can do it. That prof is a jerk.


Sometimes when a person fails it is the persons fault.................. if someone is the only F in a class they need to ask "why not the rest of the class?" Responsibility for ones own actions is a lost art.

mr.hands
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby mr.hands » Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:47 pm

thelawdoctor wrote:
ajax adonis wrote:Good luck man. You can do it. That prof is a jerk.


Sometimes when a person fails it is the persons fault.................. if someone is the only F in a class they need to ask "why not the rest of the class?" Responsibility for ones own actions is a lost art.


we don't know how bad the exam was. it's hard to imagine that it was F worthy. i literally have no idea what you have to do to deserve an F. So this "responsibility" crap is premature

thelawdoctor
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby thelawdoctor » Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:48 pm

mr.hands wrote:
thelawdoctor wrote:
ajax adonis wrote:Good luck man. You can do it. That prof is a jerk.


Sometimes when a person fails it is the persons fault.................. if someone is the only F in a class they need to ask "why not the rest of the class?" Responsibility for ones own actions is a lost art.


we don't know how bad the exam was. it's hard to imagine that it was F worthy. i literally have no idea what you have to do to deserve an F. So this "responsibility" crap is premature


The same logic can be used against someone calling the Prof a jerk then huh?

mr.hands
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby mr.hands » Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:50 pm

thelawdoctor wrote:
mr.hands wrote:
thelawdoctor wrote:
ajax adonis wrote:Good luck man. You can do it. That prof is a jerk.


Sometimes when a person fails it is the persons fault.................. if someone is the only F in a class they need to ask "why not the rest of the class?" Responsibility for ones own actions is a lost art.


we don't know how bad the exam was. it's hard to imagine that it was F worthy. i literally have no idea what you have to do to deserve an F. So this "responsibility" crap is premature


The same logic can be used against someone calling the Prof a jerk then huh?


Yeah, sure. It's all premature. We need more info before we can decide.

That said, it's hard to imagine how any student could deserve an F. Taking OP for his word (regarding his preparation for this class and his performance in other classes), i'm not ruling out the possibility that the professor is a douche though. That seems more likely than this whole "responsibility" schpeel-thing

thelawdoctor
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby thelawdoctor » Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:31 pm

yeah responsibility is always less realistic than a conspiracy theory..........

mr.hands
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby mr.hands » Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:42 pm

thelawdoctor wrote:yeah responsibility is always less realistic than a conspiracy theory..........


See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man.

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Birdnals
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby Birdnals » Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:47 pm

thelawdoctor wrote:
ajax adonis wrote:Good luck man. You can do it. That prof is a jerk.


Sometimes when a person fails it is the persons fault.................. if someone is the only F in a class they need to ask "why not the rest of the class?" Responsibility for ones own actions is a lost art.


I am guessing by your join date that you aren't actually in law school, and have noooooo idea how fucking hard it is to get an F on a law school exam.




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