Got an F - Dropping out....

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plum
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby plum » Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:36 pm

dresden doll wrote:Completely agreed. Unless exam is closed book, I don't get how people would even profit from cheating.

who knows, maybe it's something as simple as wikapeding something that wasn't on their outline, whatever it is the curve is so volatile that even a small bit of cheating can help/hurt. if i personally witnessed someone doing this i would have no problem reporting them.

uvahooo
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby uvahooo » Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:37 pm

BruceWayne wrote:
plum wrote:yes taking away wireless internet or blocking software that is used at other schools would be great, but at UVA we rely on an "honor code", hilarious.


And ITE if people don't think cheating has stepped up then they're dreaming. Oh and for those who don't think it 's possible to cheat on an open book exam in a meaningful way--it's called copying and pasting--the most helpful way to cheat whether the exam is open book or not. The biggest hurdle on any law school exam is time; copying and pasting gives you a critical advantage in that regard.


uvahooo wrote:
plum wrote:yes taking away wireless internet or blocking software that is used at other schools would be great, but at UVA we rely on an "honor code", hilarious.


How is it hilarious? People actually follow the honor code. Why would anyone NOT FOLLOW IT? It's better than having all those annoying software. I would much rather type in word then some other document.


Lol that's cute.


NOT EVERYONE copies and pastes. Just saying.

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BruceWayne
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby BruceWayne » Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:44 pm

....
Last edited by BruceWayne on Sat Jun 25, 2011 11:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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dresden doll
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby dresden doll » Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:44 pm

BruceWayne wrote:Oh and for those who don't think it 's possible to cheat on an open book exam in a meaningful way--it's called copying and pasting--the most helpful way to cheat whether the exam is open book or not. The biggest hurdle on any law school exam is time; copying and pasting gives you a critical advantage in that regard.


our take homes tend to be 8 hour long affairs with a 3,000 word limit. time is not a particular hurdle on an exam like that.

it's not that cheating with google can't help in itself, it's that it drains more time than it's worth. by the time you've looked up something online, half the classroom will have typed up 1000+ words and moved on to the next question.

closed book exams, excepted of course. but then i'd rather peek into the book/outline than resort to google.
Last edited by dresden doll on Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

plum
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby plum » Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:45 pm

uvahooo wrote:NOT EVERYONE copies and pastes. Just saying.

wtf is ur point? clearly a vast majority of people do follow the honor code and do find cheating appalling. it's the ones that don't that we are discussing here.

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Odd Future Wolf Gang
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby Odd Future Wolf Gang » Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:45 pm

OP: out the name of your school (and also preferably the name of your prof) so that others may avoid this TTTragedy

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bjsesq
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby bjsesq » Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:47 pm

UVA ragebomb been dropped up in here.

09042014
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby 09042014 » Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:56 pm

plum wrote:
TheFutureLawyer wrote:maybe this should be asked in a seperate thread, but how common is cheating in law school? I'd imagine its extremely rare, mainly just because you only get one exam at the end and that's it. but I do hear that for LRW you're often given multiple assignments over the semester, do people often cheat on those?

btw, I'm not a cheater, though at my large public undergrad it seemed like about 1/4 of the students were chronic cheaters and got away with it.

i have heard people joke in their post-exam drunken haze about how they totally googled exam answers etc. it's appalling, but i'm not surprised it happens since it's probably difficult to get caught doing it if you really were bent on it. at a school with a serious honor code such people should be expelled and never allowed to practice law. it's disgusting, but i guess it does happen.


Many of my tests allowed anything, even internet. I really don't think anyone who has to resort to googling is going to do well.

The copy pasta is the only way I think you can cheat. But even then, I think it's barely going to help. It'll save some time writing down what the law is, but you still need analysis. A slow copy paster is probably worse off than a fast typer.

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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby flcath » Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:04 pm

At this point, OP is 100% outted as flame if (s)he does not name the school and, preferably, the professor.

Honestly, the only thing that's given even a shade of credibility to this whole thread is the "why would the OP get off on flaming about this?" factor. And that's just not enough.

flexityflex86
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby flexityflex86 » Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:14 pm

flcath wrote:At this point, OP is 100% outted as flame if (s)he does not name the school and, preferably, the professor.

Honestly, the only thing that's given even a shade of credibility to this whole thread is the "why would the OP get off on flaming about this?" factor. And that's just not enough.

This seems like a really silly thing to flame about, and I can understand why they don't want to name a school?

If only 2-3 people get F's, OP basically outs themselves.

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dailygrind
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby dailygrind » Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:20 pm

flexityflex86 wrote:
flcath wrote:At this point, OP is 100% outted as flame if (s)he does not name the school and, preferably, the professor.

Honestly, the only thing that's given even a shade of credibility to this whole thread is the "why would the OP get off on flaming about this?" factor. And that's just not enough.

This seems like a really silly thing to flame about, and I can understand why they don't want to name a school?

If only 2-3 people get F's, OP basically outs themselves.


nobody knows who gets the F except the professor and anybody the student tells. besides that, if the student's about to drop out, what matter if they out themselves and their 10 or so posts?

Black-Blue
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby Black-Blue » Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:34 pm

OP's thread seems entirely reasonable to me. Outside of T20 or so, F's are not rare at many schools.

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NYC Law
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby NYC Law » Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:36 pm

flcath wrote:At this point, OP is 100% outted as flame if (s)he does not name the school and, preferably, the professor.

Honestly, the only thing that's given even a shade of credibility to this whole thread is the "why would the OP get off on flaming about this?" factor. And that's just not enough.


I'm pretty convinced this is a 'don't go to law school' flame.
-OP keeps insisting they worked hard for this and essentially due to the 'arbitrary' nature of law school and professors they've still managed to fail a class at a credible school
-In several posts OP continues to reference everyone else having no employment success whatsoever anyway, even though this has nothing to do with her/him failing a class
-The desire to keep the school and professor/class anonymous, even though no one knows who the fuck (s)he is anyway.

flcath
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby flcath » Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:39 pm

Black-Blue wrote:OP's thread seems entirely reasonable to me. Outside of T20 or so, F's are not rare at many schools.

OP claims to be at a T25 (or T25-30).

And F's are exceedingly, tremendously, Leprechaun-ishly rare at these schools.

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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby keg411 » Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:41 pm

Black-Blue wrote:OP's thread seems entirely reasonable to me. Outside of T20 or so, F's are not rare at many schools.


I go to a school well outside the T20 and no one gets F's (and profs only give one D-range grade -- if they give any at all). Maybe at TTT's where half the people fail out and there is a large attrition rate, but I don't think most "normal" law schools give out F's notwithstanding cheating.

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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby Pretzel_Logic » Fri Jun 03, 2011 5:51 pm

I go to a normal, non-T20 school and I have friends who got Fs and all varieties of D. We grade to a straight 3.0. The girl who got an F managed to talk to the professor and ended up okay, but they DO happen and to say that shit effort automatically equals a skate grade no lower than a C is plain wrong. Hell, I just pulled a C in property and I was top 25% last semester. It happens and the propagation of the idea that you have to not try to be below median is dangerous; for the majority of law students that is the reality. That's not to say that OP isn't a flame, and rough grades may not happen frequently in the T20, but they DO happen. People I know who had the roughest transition to law school were the ones who didn't realize that 90% of the class won't be top 10% and probability was not on their side. It can get anybody.

If OP is real, fight that F.
Last edited by Pretzel_Logic on Fri Jun 03, 2011 5:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Black-Blue
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby Black-Blue » Fri Jun 03, 2011 5:53 pm

Ok, I was exaggerating a bit with the term "not rare", but it is highly plausible that even at a normal law school, 1 or 2 people will get an F for some reason.

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BruceWayne
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby BruceWayne » Fri Jun 03, 2011 6:40 pm

...
Last edited by BruceWayne on Sat Jun 25, 2011 11:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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NancyBotwin
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby NancyBotwin » Fri Jun 03, 2011 6:43 pm

It is entirely possible this is Illinois OP is talking about. I talked with a dean earlier in the semester about a B- and she said that since people DO get Ds and Fs, a B- is not that bad. So.... I mean, maybe she was just trying to make me feel better, but who knows.

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Naked Dude
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby Naked Dude » Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:02 pm

What class was this? I've heard hellish things about Property from family members.

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geoduck
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby geoduck » Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:03 pm

NancyBotwin wrote:It is entirely possible this is Illinois OP is talking about. I talked with a dean earlier in the semester about a B- and she said that since people DO get Ds and Fs, a B- is not that bad. So.... I mean, maybe she was just trying to make me feel better, but who knows.


So now we just need to find out who drops out from UIUC and we'll know who this guy is!

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FeelTheHeat
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby FeelTheHeat » Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:12 pm

The OP may have gotten an F, but he got MTal and taxguy to post in the same topic so he wins an A from me.

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geoduck
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby geoduck » Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:15 pm

FeelTheHeat wrote:The OP may have gotten an F, but he got MTal and taxguy to post in the same topic so he wins an A from me.


A failure in life; a champion in heart.

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:29 pm

flcath wrote:
Black-Blue wrote:OP's thread seems entirely reasonable to me. Outside of T20 or so, F's are not rare at many schools.

OP claims to be at a T25 (or T25-30).

And F's are exceedingly, tremendously, Leprechaun-ishly rare at these schools.


F's happen at UT every semester. They're rare, but they sure happen more than Leprechaun sightings.

Mandatory Grading policy for 1L Large Sections: "at least 5% of grades must be C+, C, D, or F."

F's given per semester:
Fall 2010: 2
Spring 2010: 8
Fall 2009: 3
Spring 2009: 1
Spring 2008: 3
Fall 2007: 5
Last edited by Richie Tenenbaum on Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Hadlendale
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Re: Got an F - Dropping out....

Postby Hadlendale » Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:30 pm

More people should get Fs in law school. Getting a JD is easy as hell these days. If it were harder to get a JD, maybe the job market wouldn't be so shit these days.




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