31.6% of employed "lawyers" wasted their time in law school

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Lawquacious
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Re: 31.6% of employed "lawyers" wasted their time in law school

Postby Lawquacious » Sat Jun 04, 2011 2:56 am

Renzo wrote:
Lawquacious wrote:. Although it is anathema on here, law school can serve as an effective springboard for business and other careers.



Consider me in the anathema club. Any job or business that you "spring" into from law school could have been had by a more direct route. You get (good, desirable) non-law jobs in spite of a JD, not because of one.



Yeah, a more direct route like business school is clearly preferable for someone who knows for sure business is what they want to do, but from what I understand that has its post-graduation risks as well.

I disagree that good jobs not requiring a license for law necessarily come "in spite of" law school. Being in law school can help develop business and other professional interests (and competencies), which can and sometimes do lead to successful business (or other) careers for people who went to law school. I think such people often end up in the position they get because they earned a professional degree, even though they could have arguably had a more direct path to the position with an MBA or other professional degree. But there are many higher-level management positions that a person certainly can't get or hold without at least a master's degree (if they could then I would be more inclined to agree with you that law school is a complete waste of time for anyone who doesn't end up practicing law).

I def would agree though with an assertion that a person shouldn't attend law school if there isn't a fairly strong interest in law in the first place. I don't think that going to law school with primarily business or other motivations makes sense (generally). But a lot of the people I know who went to law school ended up in business settings rather than law (actually probably about half of them didn't end up practicing law, or practiced for a while and then started a business, went into media, went into real estate development, or went into finance). I just don't think it is as impossible or as bad of a thing as some people claim (law -> business or other career). Unfortunately for many law grads, taking a non-law job is the only option out of law school; I think that is part of the point of your thread. And I may feel differently 5 years down the road.. admittedly.

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in my eyes
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Re: 31.6% of employed "lawyers" wasted their time in law school

Postby in my eyes » Sat Jun 04, 2011 9:50 am

If this were based on complete data it would prob look a lot closer to 50%. There is a thread on JDU regarding this stat. It cracks me up when people on this board quote NALP stats without mentioning the rediculous selection bias.

Renzo
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Re: 31.6% of employed "lawyers" wasted their time in law school

Postby Renzo » Sat Jun 04, 2011 11:43 am

in my eyes wrote:If this were based on complete data it would prob look a lot closer to 50%. There is a thread on JDU regarding this stat. It cracks me up when people on this board quote NALP stats without mentioning the rediculous selection bias.


It cracks me up when people on this board make up numbers and denigrate real survey data with a ridiculous misunderstanding of simple statistics.

If anything, the selection bias would ameliorate this statistic, not make it worse. 68.4% of JDs responded that they had jobs requiring bar passage, so the 31.6% includes those who didn't respond or answered no to the question.

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Thirteen
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Re: 31.6% of employed "lawyers" wasted their time in law school

Postby Thirteen » Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:12 pm

theturkeyisfat wrote:here's my situation:

i slacked off in UG, telling myself i'd make up for it by doing well on the lsat, going to a good law school and kicking ass there. so my job prospects straight out of UG are... meh.. but that was the plan. but now i have a chance to distinguish myself.

god i hope this works out.


Do you want to be a lawyer?

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whuts4lunch
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Re: 31.6% of employed "lawyers" wasted their time in law school

Postby whuts4lunch » Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:22 pm

Just because someone takes a job that does not require a JD, it doesn't mean that that someone didn't significantly benefit from law school. Fields that come to mind are human resources and real estate. And once you gain more experience in business, legal knowledge will be very useful in venture capital projects.

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NYC Law
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Re: 31.6% of employed "lawyers" wasted their time in law school

Postby NYC Law » Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:29 pm

You also have to consider the fact that only 28% of matriculating law school students are attending a T1.

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Gecko of Doom
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Re: 31.6% of employed "lawyers" wasted their time in law school

Postby Gecko of Doom » Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:36 pm

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Last edited by Gecko of Doom on Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

blsingindisguise
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Re: 31.6% of employed "lawyers" wasted their time in law school

Postby blsingindisguise » Sat Jun 04, 2011 7:59 pm

whuts4lunch wrote:. And once you gain more experience in business, legal knowledge will be very useful in venture capital projects.


Why do 0Ls constantly spout stuff like this without a basis? There's virtually nothing you learn in law school that would be useful to venture capital projects.

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whuts4lunch
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Re: 31.6% of employed "lawyers" wasted their time in law school

Postby whuts4lunch » Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:23 pm

blsingindisguise wrote:
whuts4lunch wrote:. And once you gain more experience in business, legal knowledge will be very useful in venture capital projects.


Why do 0Ls constantly spout stuff like this without a basis? There's virtually nothing you learn in law school that would be useful to venture capital projects.


Why do you assume I have no basis? Almost every attorney that I know that is involved in venture capital projects says that the knowledge they learned in law school is vital to their success in their venture projects.

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Lawquacious
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Re: 31.6% of employed "lawyers" wasted their time in law school

Postby Lawquacious » Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:24 pm

blsingindisguise wrote:
whuts4lunch wrote:. And once you gain more experience in business, legal knowledge will be very useful in venture capital projects.


Why do 0Ls constantly spout stuff like this without a basis? There's virtually nothing you learn in law school that would be useful to venture capital projects.


I don't know what it has to do with anything if he/she is a 0L... And unless you are a seasoned professional who has made it as an attorney/ businessman I don't know that your opinion carries any more weight. I've talked with and known many people who have used their legal knowledge out of law school to start businesses (it is often done 'down the road', but that seems to be what this poster is saying). Some people may not take business-oriented classes at law school, but at least at my school there is a business/entrepreneurship program for 3Ls. I'm not particularly saavy re: business, and I barely know what 'venture capital projects' are, but to the extent that it represents the starting of a business initiative, to say that there is nothing learned in law school that would be useful seems to be a vast over-generalization to me, and probably not really accurate. True, there are probably not classes in law school titled 'Venture Capital Projects' (though actually I wouldn't be surprised if there are at some schools), but there is frequent overlap in many law school classes with business concepts, even if sometimes fairly general.

But I am willing to stand corrected, especially if you actually have direct professional knowledge about the topic that you are willing to share.

Renzo
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Re: 31.6% of employed "lawyers" wasted their time in law school

Postby Renzo » Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:33 pm

Law school is basically useless for teaching you to be a lawyer. It's beyond useless for anything else.

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theturkeyisfat
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Re: 31.6% of employed "lawyers" wasted their time in law school

Postby theturkeyisfat » Sun Jun 05, 2011 3:39 am

Thirteen wrote:
theturkeyisfat wrote:here's my situation:

i slacked off in UG, telling myself i'd make up for it by doing well on the lsat, going to a good law school and kicking ass there. so my job prospects straight out of UG are... meh.. but that was the plan. but now i have a chance to distinguish myself.

god i hope this works out.


Do you want to be a lawyer?


yes, and i have since high school. thus the plan.

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thesealocust
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Re: 31.6% of employed "lawyers" wasted their time in law school

Postby thesealocust » Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:39 am

Renzo wrote: You get (good, desirable) non-law jobs in spite of a JD, not because of one.


Or you get them after really working the JD in the legal world. Most of the smashing success stories of lawyers in non legal jobs I know involve a lot of involvement in the legal world immediately after graduation. A successful lawyer can have valuable and transferable skills, a fresh law school grad just has a law license and, in all likelihood, a debt problem.

whuts4lunch wrote:Just because someone takes a job that does not require a JD, it doesn't mean that that someone didn't significantly benefit from law school. Fields that come to mind are human resources and real estate. And once you gain more experience in business, legal knowledge will be very useful in venture capital projects.


This is painfully naive. It would be awesome if the world worked that way, but it doesn't.

Renzo wrote:Law school is basically useless for teaching you to be a lawyer. It's beyond useless for anything else.


I wish I could quit you.




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