What should I do 0L summer?

(Study Tips, Dealing With Stress, Maintaining a Social Life, Financial Aid, Internships, Bar Exam, Careers in Law . . . )

to gun or not to gun

Gun
29
33%
Do Nothing
58
67%
 
Total votes: 87

071816
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Re: What should I do 0L summer?

Postby 071816 » Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:23 pm

dakatz wrote:I prepped pretty hard 0L summer so I can tell you this from experience: Do NOT waste your time. It doesn't help you do better in law school. And aside from that, it can serve no other purpose. People like to say "oh the people who say not to do 0L prep are the people who didn't do it themselves and just wanna justify the decision". Well o did it and it didn't help at all. And btw, I did very well first year. The prep had nothing to do with it. You are going to have to trust me on that. You start yourself down a bad path with the 0L prep stuff while the actual smart people are out getting a leg up on you. Don't waste a golden opportunity with pointless prep books. Law school is quite a counterintuitive journey. The impulsive and reactionary things are usually the red flags. Reaching for 0L prep books is the epitome of reactionary moves that push aside the countetintuitive thought process you must apply in law school to get a leg up.

Im not saying that I was above falling victim to the reactionary and reflexive things. Its what we call losing the forest for the trees. But im telling you this so that you don't fall into the same traps along the way.


I'm a 0L but this makes sense to me. Correlation does not equal causation. I feel like the people who at least contemplate doing extensive 0L prep are, more often than not, the types of people who will do well in law school regardless.

dakatz
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Re: What should I do 0L summer?

Postby dakatz » Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:29 pm

chimp wrote:
dakatz wrote:I prepped pretty hard 0L summer so I can tell you this from experience: Do NOT waste your time. It doesn't help you do better in law school. And aside from that, it can serve no other purpose. People like to say "oh the people who say not to do 0L prep are the people who didn't do it themselves and just wanna justify the decision". Well o did it and it didn't help at all. And btw, I did very well first year. The prep had nothing to do with it. You are going to have to trust me on that. You start yourself down a bad path with the 0L prep stuff while the actual smart people are out getting a leg up on you. Don't waste a golden opportunity with pointless prep books. Law school is quite a counterintuitive journey. The impulsive and reactionary things are usually the red flags. Reaching for 0L prep books is the epitome of reactionary moves that push aside the countetintuitive thought process you must apply in law school to get a leg up.

Im not saying that I was above falling victim to the reactionary and reflexive things. Its what we call losing the forest for the trees. But im telling you this so that you don't fall into the same traps along the way.


I'm a 0L but this makes sense to me. Correlation does not equal causation. I feel like the people who at least contemplate doing extensive 0L prep are, more often than not, the types of people who will do well in law school regardless.


Thats typically the case. It is useless at best, and harmful at worst. Please note that I am NOT referring to exam prep and learning about exam writing. I am only referring to substantive prep. I am entirely serious when I say that the smart ones are literally running laps around you while you sit around reading E&E's (and no, that doesn't mean they are drinking and partying). If you need to ask how, then you have a bit more learning to do. But all the info is on this site. It really is a gold mine.

071816
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Re: What should I do 0L summer?

Postby 071816 » Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:32 pm

dakatz wrote:
chimp wrote:
dakatz wrote:I prepped pretty hard 0L summer so I can tell you this from experience: Do NOT waste your time. It doesn't help you do better in law school. And aside from that, it can serve no other purpose. People like to say "oh the people who say not to do 0L prep are the people who didn't do it themselves and just wanna justify the decision". Well o did it and it didn't help at all. And btw, I did very well first year. The prep had nothing to do with it. You are going to have to trust me on that. You start yourself down a bad path with the 0L prep stuff while the actual smart people are out getting a leg up on you. Don't waste a golden opportunity with pointless prep books. Law school is quite a counterintuitive journey. The impulsive and reactionary things are usually the red flags. Reaching for 0L prep books is the epitome of reactionary moves that push aside the countetintuitive thought process you must apply in law school to get a leg up.

Im not saying that I was above falling victim to the reactionary and reflexive things. Its what we call losing the forest for the trees. But im telling you this so that you don't fall into the same traps along the way.


I'm a 0L but this makes sense to me. Correlation does not equal causation. I feel like the people who at least contemplate doing extensive 0L prep are, more often than not, the types of people who will do well in law school regardless.


Thats typically the case. It is useless at best, and harmful at worst. Please note that I am NOT referring to exam prep and learning about exam writing. I am only referring to substantive prep. I am entirely serious when I say that the smart ones are literally running laps around you while you sit around reading E&E's (and no, that doesn't mean they are drinking and partying). If you need to ask how, then you have a bit more learning to do. But all the info is on this site. It really is a gold mine.


Out of curiosity what would you recommend?

pookie
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Re: What should I do 0L summer?

Postby pookie » Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:35 pm

dakatz wrote:I prepped pretty hard 0L summer so I can tell you this from experience: Do NOT waste your time. It doesn't help you do better in law school. And aside from that, it can serve no other purpose. People like to say "oh the people who say not to do 0L prep are the people who didn't do it themselves and just wanna justify the decision". Well o did it and it didn't help at all. And btw, I did very well first year. The prep had nothing to do with it. You are going to have to trust me on that. You start yourself down a bad path with the 0L prep stuff while the actual smart people are out getting a leg up on you. Don't waste a golden opportunity with pointless prep books. Law school is quite a counterintuitive journey. The impulsive and reactionary things are usually the red flags. Reaching for 0L prep books is the epitome of reactionary moves that push aside the countetintuitive thought process you must apply in law school to get a leg up.

Im not saying that I was above falling victim to the reactionary and reflexive things. Its what we call losing the forest for the trees. But im telling you this so that you don't fall into the same traps along the way.


Something tells me you just finished reading 7 Habits of Highly Effective People..

23402385985
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Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2011 2:44 pm

Re: What should I do 0L summer?

Postby 23402385985 » Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:41 pm

chimp wrote:
dakatz wrote:
chimp wrote:
dakatz wrote:I prepped pretty hard 0L summer so I can tell you this from experience: Do NOT waste your time. It doesn't help you do better in law school. And aside from that, it can serve no other purpose. People like to say "oh the people who say not to do 0L prep are the people who didn't do it themselves and just wanna justify the decision". Well o did it and it didn't help at all. And btw, I did very well first year. The prep had nothing to do with it. You are going to have to trust me on that. You start yourself down a bad path with the 0L prep stuff while the actual smart people are out getting a leg up on you. Don't waste a golden opportunity with pointless prep books. Law school is quite a counterintuitive journey. The impulsive and reactionary things are usually the red flags. Reaching for 0L prep books is the epitome of reactionary moves that push aside the countetintuitive thought process you must apply in law school to get a leg up.

Im not saying that I was above falling victim to the reactionary and reflexive things. Its what we call losing the forest for the trees. But im telling you this so that you don't fall into the same traps along the way.


I'm a 0L but this makes sense to me. Correlation does not equal causation. I feel like the people who at least contemplate doing extensive 0L prep are, more often than not, the types of people who will do well in law school regardless.



Thats typically the case. It is useless at best, and harmful at worst. Please note that I am NOT referring to exam prep and learning about exam writing. I am only referring to substantive prep. I am entirely serious when I say that the smart ones are literally running laps around you while you sit around reading E&E's (and no, that doesn't mean they are drinking and partying). If you need to ask how, then you have a bit more learning to do. But all the info is on this site. It really is a gold mine.


Out of curiosity what would you recommend?


Curious as well.

bartleby
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Re: What should I do 0L summer?

Postby bartleby » Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:43 pm

Should I add that to my to-read list? I think 0L prep for me is just proving that I can sit down and study 8 hours a day 5 days a week. I never came close to doing that in UG. Probably studied 8 hours a class for the entire semester - not exaggerating.

I read for fun every night and have done so. I just don't know if I can swim through dense/technical material for an extended period of time.

I finished GTM and got FIFA for PS3. I guess June is done.

+1 curious as well.

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thecilent
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Re: What should I do 0L summer?

Postby thecilent » Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:45 pm

He's going to recommend learning how to take an exam etc etc + cover letter and resume stuff (which shouldn't really take more than a few hours, IMO).

dakatz
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Re: What should I do 0L summer?

Postby dakatz » Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:50 pm

chimp wrote:
dakatz wrote:
chimp wrote:
dakatz wrote:I prepped pretty hard 0L summer so I can tell you this from experience: Do NOT waste your time. It doesn't help you do better in law school. And aside from that, it can serve no other purpose. People like to say "oh the people who say not to do 0L prep are the people who didn't do it themselves and just wanna justify the decision". Well o did it and it didn't help at all. And btw, I did very well first year. The prep had nothing to do with it. You are going to have to trust me on that. You start yourself down a bad path with the 0L prep stuff while the actual smart people are out getting a leg up on you. Don't waste a golden opportunity with pointless prep books. Law school is quite a counterintuitive journey. The impulsive and reactionary things are usually the red flags. Reaching for 0L prep books is the epitome of reactionary moves that push aside the countetintuitive thought process you must apply in law school to get a leg up.

Im not saying that I was above falling victim to the reactionary and reflexive things. Its what we call losing the forest for the trees. But im telling you this so that you don't fall into the same traps along the way.


I'm a 0L but this makes sense to me. Correlation does not equal causation. I feel like the people who at least contemplate doing extensive 0L prep are, more often than not, the types of people who will do well in law school regardless.


Thats typically the case. It is useless at best, and harmful at worst. Please note that I am NOT referring to exam prep and learning about exam writing. I am only referring to substantive prep. I am entirely serious when I say that the smart ones are literally running laps around you while you sit around reading E&E's (and no, that doesn't mean they are drinking and partying). If you need to ask how, then you have a bit more learning to do. But all the info is on this site. It really is a gold mine.


Out of curiosity what would you recommend?


Here are the highlights. And if you do them all, and do them all correctly, you shouldn't even have enough time for substantive 0L prep anyway:

-Spruce up resume
-Write cover letter templates
-Network with alumni of the school you will be attending. This can be a serious and time-consuming endeavor
-Do some self-reflection to understand your goals, priorities, etc. Know completely why you are going to law school and what you plan to get out of it. Don't underestimate the importance of this
-Get yourself organized. Work up some methods and strategies to keep your materials and your life in order. Law school requires you to juggle many things at once. Make sure you are ready to keep up with it efficiently
-Get better at typing. If you are already a fast typer, get faster. Each second is crucial on a non-word limit exam
-Learn about law school exams. This is 100% of your grade, so figure out the general idea of what you must do and how you should learn to tailor your entire semester-long strategy to that exam
-Rest your mind and relax. Your brain is about to get a long workout. It needs to be well-rested. Make sure to take some time off to clear your mind. Whether its through yoga, meditation, or just hanging out with friends, do whatever it takes to clear your head over the summer

The smart ones will be the ones who have resumes already written up, a network of contacts to rely on, a clear head, and concrete goals. They will not have had time to grab 0L prep books. Yet they will be miles ahead of those who wasted their time with them. Hope this helps. You guys have a golden opportunity here. This is your first fork in the road. Do you take the reflexive choice and just grab at the very first "tree in the forest"? Or do you choose to look at the bigger picture and work toward the end goal?

071816
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Re: What should I do 0L summer?

Postby 071816 » Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:54 pm

Very good advice. Thank you.

Edit: Also, how much pre law school employment should be on a 1L's resume? Also, would you recommend making different cover letter templates for different types of jobs e.g. firms, PI, etc.?
Last edited by 071816 on Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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thecilent
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Re: What should I do 0L summer?

Postby thecilent » Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:55 pm

"a network of contacts to rely on" "concrete goals"

Give me a break. No one is going to build a network 0L summer if they do not already have contacts. And concrete goals? Sure I want V20 - get median-pwned though and those goals are no longer concrete.

And the other stuff you listed should not take even close to a summer. "they won't have time to grab prep books"??

And as for your fork comment: aren't you suppose to go down both paths? Lol

Edit iPhone trouble
Last edited by thecilent on Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Rooney
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Re: What should I do 0L summer?

Postby Rooney » Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:55 pm

dakatz wrote:
Here are the highlights. And if you do them all, and do them all correctly, you shouldn't even have enough time for substantive 0L prep anyway:

-Spruce up resume
-Write cover letter templates
-Network with alumni of the school you will be attending. This can be a serious and time-consuming endeavor
-Do some self-reflection to understand your goals, priorities, etc. Know completely why you are going to law school and what you plan to get out of it. Don't underestimate the importance of this
-Get yourself organized. Work up some methods and strategies to keep your materials and your life in order. Law school requires you to juggle many things at once. Make sure you are ready to keep up with it efficiently
-Get better at typing. If you are already a fast typer, get faster. Each second is crucial on a non-word limit exam
-Learn about law school exams. This is 100% of your grade, so figure out the general idea of what you must do and how you should learn to tailor your entire semester-long strategy to that exam
-Rest your mind and relax. Your brain is about to get a long workout. It needs to be well-rested. Make sure to take some time off to clear your mind. Whether its through yoga, meditation, or just hanging out with friends, do whatever it takes to clear your head over the summer

The smart ones will be the ones who have resumes already written up, a network of contacts to rely on, a clear head, and concrete goals. They will not have had time to grab 0L prep books. Yet they will be miles ahead of those who wasted their time with them. Hope this helps. You guys have a golden opportunity here. This is your first fork in the road. Do you take the reflexive choice and just grab at the very first "tree in the forest"? Or do you choose to look at the bigger picture and work toward the end goal?


nice
/thread
Last edited by Rooney on Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

23402385985
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Re: What should I do 0L summer?

Postby 23402385985 » Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:56 pm

"-Network with alumni of the school you will be attending. This can be a serious and time-consuming endeavor"

This is the only thing I don't really understand fully. Do you mean it's good to just send out emails to people we don't know? What would you even say or ask? I have seen some say the same thing but I haven't really seen what they recommend saying, ya know?

071816
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Re: What should I do 0L summer?

Postby 071816 » Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:57 pm

thecilent wrote:"a network of contacts to rely on" "concrete goals"

Give me a break. No one is going to build a network 0L summer if they do not already have contacts. And concrete goals? Sure I want V20 - get median-pwned though and those goals are no longer concrete.

And the other stuff you listed should not take even close to a summer. "they won't have time to grab prep books"??

And as for your form comment: aren't you suppose to go down both paths? Lol


lol the forks thing may have been a little much, but honestly I don't see anything wrong with this advice.

dakatz
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Re: What should I do 0L summer?

Postby dakatz » Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:58 pm

thecilent wrote:"a network of contacts to rely on" "concrete goals"

Give me a break. No one is going to build a network 0L summer if they do not already have contacts. And concrete goals? Sure I want V20 - get median-pwned though and those goals are no longer concrete.

And the other stuff you listed should not take even close to a summer. "they won't have time to grab prep books"??


You are a 0L I assume? You sound just like I did last summer. But you know that thing they say about hindsight? What you said about not having time to build a network of contacts is absolutely wrong. I tutor LSAT and also provide this advice to my students. I've had students who made contacts in 2 months time that have already told them they will put in a good word in the future. When 500 people apply for the same job, one good word might actually mean something. But hey, do what you like, and good luck to you.
Last edited by dakatz on Thu Jun 02, 2011 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

dakatz
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Re: What should I do 0L summer?

Postby dakatz » Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:59 pm

chimp wrote:
thecilent wrote:"a network of contacts to rely on" "concrete goals"

Give me a break. No one is going to build a network 0L summer if they do not already have contacts. And concrete goals? Sure I want V20 - get median-pwned though and those goals are no longer concrete.

And the other stuff you listed should not take even close to a summer. "they won't have time to grab prep books"??

And as for your form comment: aren't you suppose to go down both paths? Lol


lol the forks thing may have been a little much, but honestly I don't see anything wrong with this advice.


I'm all about the metaphors dude. And theres no better one in law school than forks. Everything you do in law school is some mutually exclusive choice, one thing to the exclusion of another. Its best to get used to it early.

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thecilent
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Re: What should I do 0L summer?

Postby thecilent » Thu Jun 02, 2011 4:03 pm

dakatz wrote:
chimp wrote:
thecilent wrote:"a network of contacts to rely on" "concrete goals"

Give me a break. No one is going to build a network 0L summer if they do not already have contacts. And concrete goals? Sure I want V20 - get median-pwned though and those goals are no longer concrete.

And the other stuff you listed should not take even close to a summer. "they won't have time to grab prep books"??

And as for your form comment: aren't you suppose to go down both paths? Lol


lol the forks thing may have been a little much, but honestly I don't see anything wrong with this advice.


I'm all about the metaphors dude. And theres no better one in law school than forks. Everything you do in law school is some mutually exclusive choice, one thing to the exclusion of another. Its best to get used to it early.

But the metaphor doesn't even make sense: isn't the point of pointing out the forks so you can go down both paths?

071816
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Re: What should I do 0L summer?

Postby 071816 » Thu Jun 02, 2011 4:05 pm

thecilent wrote:
dakatz wrote:
chimp wrote:
thecilent wrote:"a network of contacts to rely on" "concrete goals"

Give me a break. No one is going to build a network 0L summer if they do not already have contacts. And concrete goals? Sure I want V20 - get median-pwned though and those goals are no longer concrete.

And the other stuff you listed should not take even close to a summer. "they won't have time to grab prep books"??

And as for your form comment: aren't you suppose to go down both paths? Lol


lol the forks thing may have been a little much, but honestly I don't see anything wrong with this advice.


I'm all about the metaphors dude. And theres no better one in law school than forks. Everything you do in law school is some mutually exclusive choice, one thing to the exclusion of another. Its best to get used to it early.

But the metaphor doesn't even make sense: isn't the point of pointing out the forks so you can go down both paths?


It's more to acknowledge that both paths exist and then make an argument for why it would be better to go down one path or the other.

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thecilent
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Re: What should I do 0L summer?

Postby thecilent » Thu Jun 02, 2011 4:07 pm

^Yeah after you've gone down each path

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thecilent
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Re: What should I do 0L summer?

Postby thecilent » Thu Jun 02, 2011 4:08 pm

/arguing though
Thnks for your advice dakatz

071816
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Re: What should I do 0L summer?

Postby 071816 » Thu Jun 02, 2011 4:10 pm

thecilent wrote:^Yeah after you've gone down each path


It isn't possible to go down both paths. The point of the forks is to spot the issue (that both paths are viable options) and to make arguments for both sides, but that one path is superior for X,Y, & Z reasons.
Last edited by 071816 on Thu Jun 02, 2011 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

dakatz
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Re: What should I do 0L summer?

Postby dakatz » Thu Jun 02, 2011 4:10 pm

thecilent wrote:
dakatz wrote:
chimp wrote:
thecilent wrote:"a network of contacts to rely on" "concrete goals"

Give me a break. No one is going to build a network 0L summer if they do not already have contacts. And concrete goals? Sure I want V20 - get median-pwned though and those goals are no longer concrete.

And the other stuff you listed should not take even close to a summer. "they won't have time to grab prep books"??

And as for your form comment: aren't you suppose to go down both paths? Lol


lol the forks thing may have been a little much, but honestly I don't see anything wrong with this advice.


I'm all about the metaphors dude. And theres no better one in law school than forks. Everything you do in law school is some mutually exclusive choice, one thing to the exclusion of another. Its best to get used to it early.

But the metaphor doesn't even make sense: isn't the point of pointing out the forks so you can go down both paths?


The point of a "fork" in law school isn't to go down both ways. The real purpose is to acknowledge that such a fork exists. Sure, you dip your feet in both ways, but you only really end up following one path on nearly all occasions. As with any reasoned legal analysis, you show where there is ambiguity, you explain what facts/law would lean one way and which would lean the other, but you almost always want to argue that the facts support one side, such that you can continue with your analysis. Its not like your exam answer just branches off into 2 distinct paths. And I'm obviously using the "fork" concept a bit more literally when I'm using it to refer to choices throughout law school. Time is of the essence and deciding to do one thing often precludes other things no matter how efficient you are.

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acrossthelake
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Re: What should I do 0L summer?

Postby acrossthelake » Thu Jun 02, 2011 4:13 pm

I don't plan to do any 0L summer prep at all. Tried to read GTM, but got bored with how obvious it was.

071816
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Re: What should I do 0L summer?

Postby 071816 » Thu Jun 02, 2011 4:17 pm

acrossthelake wrote:I don't plan to do any 0L summer prep at all. Tried to read GTM, but got bored with how obvious it was.


--ImageRemoved--

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Rooney
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Re: What should I do 0L summer?

Postby Rooney » Thu Jun 02, 2011 5:04 pm

chimp wrote:It isn't possible to go down both paths.


thecilent wrote:/arguing though

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Rooney
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Re: What should I do 0L summer?

Postby Rooney » Thu Jun 02, 2011 5:06 pm

acrossthelake wrote:I don't plan to do any 0L summer prep at all. Tried to read GTM, but got bored with how obvious it was.



About two chapters in. It reminds me of the essay on the LSAT. A or B? While A has some good points, and B has some bad points, B is better because of superior points blah blah blah




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