Continue for 2L or drop out?

(Study Tips, Dealing With Stress, Maintaining a Social Life, Financial Aid, Internships, Bar Exam, Careers in Law . . . )
User avatar
haus
Posts: 2835
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2010 11:07 am

Re: Continue for 2L or drop out?

Postby haus » Sun May 29, 2011 12:19 am

boalt2l wrote:Drop out, you are not going to have the opportunity to practice law either way, so might as well save yourself 100k or so


Of all the court houses I have been to, I have not yet seen a sign that says "Must have graduated from T14 in order to enter".

non sequitur
Posts: 35
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2010 1:46 am

Re: Continue for 2L or drop out?

Postby non sequitur » Sun May 29, 2011 12:20 am

boalt2l wrote:Drop out, you are not going to have the opportunity to practice law either way, so might as well save yourself 100k or so


This seems rather alarmist.

User avatar
zanda
Posts: 526
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:36 am

Re: Continue for 2L or drop out?

Postby zanda » Sun May 29, 2011 12:38 am

haus wrote:
boalt2l wrote:Drop out, you are not going to have the opportunity to practice law either way, so might as well save yourself 100k or so


Of all the court houses I have been to, I have not yet seen a sign that says "Must have graduated from T14 in order to enter".

flame.

User avatar
gwuorbust
Posts: 2087
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 11:37 pm

Re: Continue for 2L or drop out?

Postby gwuorbust » Sun May 29, 2011 5:34 am

haus wrote:
boalt2l wrote:Drop out, you are not going to have the opportunity to practice law either way, so might as well save yourself 100k or so


Of all the court houses I have been to, I have not yet seen a sign that says "Must have graduated from T14 in order to enter".

BoSox0407
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:15 am

Re: Continue for 2L or drop out?

Postby BoSox0407 » Sun May 29, 2011 5:43 pm

Thanks....i sadly think the decision will likely be to drop out

plum
Posts: 291
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 2:21 pm

Re: Continue for 2L or drop out?

Postby plum » Sun May 29, 2011 6:05 pm

BoSox0407 wrote:Thanks....i sadly think the decision will likely be to drop out

:( did you get all your grades in for the year?

BoSox0407
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:15 am

Re: Continue for 2L or drop out?

Postby BoSox0407 » Sun May 29, 2011 6:07 pm

No grades yet...but I think i did notably better. Even still, I dont think a 3.1 or a 2.8 really makes much of a difference at this point.

seatown12
Posts: 614
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:16 pm

Re: Continue for 2L or drop out?

Postby seatown12 » Sun May 29, 2011 6:10 pm

It sounds like you wanted to drop out from the start, probably for emotional reasons, and TLS obliged by telling you what you wanted to hear.

You want to drop out because your legal future is uncertain and you weren't able to line anything up for this summer. What is your plan after you drop out? The decision to drop out is the easy part, the hard part is figuring out what to do with the rest of your life post-law school. What was your UG major? Do you have post-UG work experience? Do you have any idea what type of job you will pursue, whether such positions are available, or whether you will be able to secure one?

Rather than focus on a negative choice, dropping out, you should start to think positively about what you want your future to be. You should decide both how you would overcome this disappointing 1L to continue as a law student, and what non-legal career you would pursue if you were to drop out. Once you have these two concrete options in mind you can decide which is preferable.

Don't drop out just because you are overwhelmed emotionally by your situation. That is the kind of weak decision making that will only lead to regret. And don't listen to the doomsday BS coming from many of the people on this forum.

BoSox0407
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:15 am

Re: Continue for 2L or drop out?

Postby BoSox0407 » Sun May 29, 2011 6:26 pm

It's not the doomsday stuff....If I honestly cant even get an unpaid internship for the summer, how will i ever get a job? It's going to evolve into a constant struggle that I would prefer no part of.

plum
Posts: 291
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 2:21 pm

Re: Continue for 2L or drop out?

Postby plum » Sun May 29, 2011 6:39 pm

BoSox0407 wrote:It's not the doomsday stuff....If I honestly cant even get an unpaid internship for the summer, how will i ever get a job? It's going to evolve into a constant struggle that I would prefer no part of.

do you feel like you really did your best to get a summer position? did you apply on time? where you targetting feasible markets? i think there is still time for you to get a summer position, even if you only work one month out of the summer that's still something you can put down on your resume. so i wouldn't quit looking just yet. but yes the legal career is all about hustling now, even if you go to a T14 and are above median /everyone/ has to hustle ITE. if putting in even that basic kind of effort turns you off then i guess you can drop out, but you're still going to hustle to get a normal job. you're still going to have to put in the same or even /more/ effort sending out thousands of resumes on monster or making tons of phone calls or taking temp jobs and networking etc. Those things will not change. so i would not drop out if that is your only reason, since that's just illogical. if on the other hand you ACCEPT the hustling and still decide it's better to save the debt and go hustle in the non-legal world, then that i can understand. but you will have to work hard to find a job either way, that's not the issue really.

User avatar
YourCaptain
Posts: 719
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2011 11:26 pm

Re: Continue for 2L or drop out?

Postby YourCaptain » Sun May 29, 2011 6:47 pm

I'm trying to be nice and realistic; if you don't have a job and you're below median, why do you believe you will be any more successful in the hunt for gainful employment?

If I were you I would take a deep breath and withdraw; it takes a lot of humility to acknowledge the situation and to do what you should.

User avatar
gwuorbust
Posts: 2087
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 11:37 pm

Re: Continue for 2L or drop out?

Postby gwuorbust » Sun May 29, 2011 6:54 pm

YourCaptain wrote:I'm trying to be nice and realistic; if you don't have a job and you're below median, why do you believe you will be any more successful in the hunt for gainful employment?

If I were you I would take a deep breath and withdraw; it takes a lot of humility to acknowledge the situation and to do what you should.


did you even read the post right above the one you just made? It's basically impossible to say if OP should withdraw without knowing what other options he/she has.

User avatar
YourCaptain
Posts: 719
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2011 11:26 pm

Re: Continue for 2L or drop out?

Postby YourCaptain » Sun May 29, 2011 9:22 pm

gwuorbust wrote:
YourCaptain wrote:I'm trying to be nice and realistic; if you don't have a job and you're below median, why do you believe you will be any more successful in the hunt for gainful employment?

If I were you I would take a deep breath and withdraw; it takes a lot of humility to acknowledge the situation and to do what you should.


did you even read the post right above the one you just made? It's basically impossible to say if OP should withdraw without knowing what other options he/she has.


Look I'm trying not to be a dick but you consistently give advice that is overly optimistic. I recall your posts about your own difficulties w/ grades and finding a summer position. You seem like a nice enough person but you should agree this is drop-out territory.

User avatar
haus
Posts: 2835
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2010 11:07 am

Re: Continue for 2L or drop out?

Postby haus » Sun May 29, 2011 9:41 pm

YourCaptain wrote:Look I'm trying not to be a dick but you consistently give advice that is overly optimistic. I recall your posts about your own difficulties w/ grades and finding a summer position. You seem like a nice enough person but you should agree this is drop-out territory.


So you feel that median at tier 2 should drop out?

So clearly a higher percentage of T3 & T4 students should drop out. What is your estimated total, 70% of students should walk away?

flcath
Posts: 1502
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:39 pm

Re: Continue for 2L or drop out?

Postby flcath » Sun May 29, 2011 9:54 pm

haus wrote:
YourCaptain wrote:Look I'm trying not to be a dick but you consistently give advice that is overly optimistic. I recall your posts about your own difficulties w/ grades and finding a summer position. You seem like a nice enough person but you should agree this is drop-out territory.


So you feel that median at tier 2 should drop out?

So clearly a higher percentage of T3 & T4 students should drop out. What is your estimated total, 70% of students should walk away?

That figure isn't off-the-wall, at the very least, as a %age of kids who should've never gone in the first place.

Which is not to say that the legal profession only has room for T13 grads or even T1 grads. If this country had 125 law schools then everyone could get a job, but the existence of the surplus law schools (and the fact that some of the kids at those schools will get jobs that now won't go to kids at the top 125 schools) means that not all of the top 125 schools are a sound investment.

The issue really is that people here tend to grossly, delusionally overestimate college grad job prospects.

User avatar
snowpeach06
Posts: 2426
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:32 am

Re: Continue for 2L or drop out?

Postby snowpeach06 » Sun May 29, 2011 10:04 pm

To me wasting a year of your life and $50k is worse than sucking it up and finishing your degree. By the time you graduate the legal market should be better. Unless your aiming for BigLaw, you should be able to get some sort of legal job. So, if you like law and want to do it as a career, stick with it. Obviously not everyone can be at the top of their class, and yet, the majority of lawyers are not unemployed. So, the logic of top whatever % or drop out only makes sense if you could only possibly be happy working at a top firm.

User avatar
gwuorbust
Posts: 2087
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 11:37 pm

Re: Continue for 2L or drop out?

Postby gwuorbust » Sun May 29, 2011 10:35 pm

YourCaptain wrote:
Look I'm trying not to be a dick but you consistently give advice that is overly optimistic. I recall your posts about your own difficulties w/ grades and finding a summer position. You seem like a nice enough person but you should agree this is drop-out territory.


My grades are median, that is correct. I actually got offered at two different venture capital funds but didn't take either cause I wouldn't have gotten the guidance I wanted.

That irrelevant personal info aside, I think that you have to consider the lasting impacts of this situation. If OP has something else he/she can do then this is the perfect "drop out" situation. But, if the OP is going to be working retail, or other low-level work, for the rest of his/her life then I think that it is not. We have already discussed how it is possible(note, that doesn't mean easy - but with work it can be done) to find a legal job in a less than ideal location. If I were the OP, in 10 years I'd rather be debt free and with 10 years of legal experience at a legal aid clinic than be a mid level manager at the local target. but to each their own I guess.

plum
Posts: 291
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 2:21 pm

Re: Continue for 2L or drop out?

Postby plum » Sun May 29, 2011 11:14 pm

flcath wrote:That figure isn't off-the-wall

+1

http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video ... s.cnn.html

BoSox0407
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:15 am

Re: Continue for 2L or drop out?

Postby BoSox0407 » Sun May 29, 2011 11:19 pm

Seriously...i have a degree in history/poli sci? Wtf do these ivy leaguers here expect me to do with just an undergrad degree? It's a top100 school and my law is ranked 60-80.

plum
Posts: 291
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 2:21 pm

Re: Continue for 2L or drop out?

Postby plum » Sun May 29, 2011 11:20 pm

flcath wrote:If this country had 125 law schools then everyone could get a job

i'm not even sure this is true. maybe in the long run, but right now it's not as if employers are overwhelmingly hiring non-T1 students, and even people in T6 don't have jobs.

User avatar
YourCaptain
Posts: 719
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2011 11:26 pm

Re: Continue for 2L or drop out?

Postby YourCaptain » Mon May 30, 2011 10:44 am

haus wrote:
YourCaptain wrote:Look I'm trying not to be a dick but you consistently give advice that is overly optimistic. I recall your posts about your own difficulties w/ grades and finding a summer position. You seem like a nice enough person but you should agree this is drop-out territory.


So you feel that median at tier 2 should drop out?

So clearly a higher percentage of T3 & T4 students should drop out.


Well, yeah.

keg411
Posts: 5935
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:10 pm

Re: Continue for 2L or drop out?

Postby keg411 » Mon May 30, 2011 10:49 am

Drop out. You are basically going to have the same opportunities (read: retail, receptionist, food service) available to you after getting a JD and having $150k in debt as you do now. It's very telling you were unable to even get an unpaid 1L summer job, which is the easiest legal job to get.

Black-Blue
Posts: 279
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 10:46 pm

Re: Continue for 2L or drop out?

Postby Black-Blue » Mon May 30, 2011 10:55 am

plum wrote:
flcath wrote:If this country had 125 law schools then everyone could get a job

i'm not even sure this is true. maybe in the long run, but right now it's not as if employers are overwhelmingly hiring non-T1 students, and even people in T6 don't have jobs.

As long as people at schools ranked 126-200 are competing to any extent, it would help the rest. For example, even if the school ranked 150 could place 10 people into biglaw, if that school didn't exist, then that 10 people would be allocated to the T14, etc.

Of course, not "everyone" would get a job, but I'd say pretty damn close to everyone.

User avatar
thexfactor
Posts: 1277
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 11:40 am

Re: Continue for 2L or drop out?

Postby thexfactor » Mon May 30, 2011 11:22 am

1. try doing a master of accounting. The accounting field is actually hiring.

2. Nursing

3. Caribbean med. There are schools that have 5 year med program for people that haven't taken the prereqs.

User avatar
thexfactor
Posts: 1277
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 11:40 am

Re: Continue for 2L or drop out?

Postby thexfactor » Mon May 30, 2011 11:29 am

snowpeach06 wrote:To me wasting a year of your life and $50k is worse than sucking it up and finishing your degree. By the time you graduate the legal market should be better. Unless your aiming for BigLaw, you should be able to get some sort of legal job. So, if you like law and want to do it as a career, stick with it. Obviously not everyone can be at the top of their class, and yet, the majority of lawyers are not unemployed. So, the logic of top whatever % or drop out only makes sense if you could only possibly be happy working at a top firm.


I have to disagree with this. Even PI jobs are hard to come by. At a time where private hiring is low, most states and federal agencies have hiring freezes. It is going to be very difficult to get any type of legal job if you are below median.
It was a lot different 30 years ago. One of my friend's dad told me that 30 years ago fi you graduate from a t2 in the bottom of your class, you can still get a low paying job working as a lawyer.Today, these firms are overwhelmed with resumes and there is much more competition to get these small law jobs.




Return to “Forum for Law School Students”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: orchidbloom and 8 guests