Continue for 2L or drop out?

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gwuorbust
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Re: Continue for 2L or drop out?

Postby gwuorbust » Fri May 27, 2011 2:25 pm

BruceWayne wrote:
seatown12 wrote:People saying "drop out and get one of the sweet 40k jobs that are there for the taking" should have to post a disclaimer if they came straight from UG.

flcath's advice is best


In their defense, they're getting it from many of the high post count posters. The majority of the high post count people claim that there are many 40K jobs available for someone coming straight out of undergrad, and that this is one of the primary reasons no one should attend law school if they are not admitted to Yale or Stanford (maybe Harvard if they receive a large scholarship, or one of the "top 6" with a full ride).


broad generalizations largely are worthless. with my International Business degree I could have earned 40-50k at graduation from GWU. if I graduated from the University of Central Florida (many of my friends) with an Intl Bizness degree I'd prob only would have been qualified for a 20-25k year job. It all depends on the market, your school, and what position you are qualified for.

nickwar
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Re: Continue for 2L or drop out?

Postby nickwar » Fri May 27, 2011 3:42 pm

Kind of a different idea, but why not keep going and try to graduate early if your school allows it. I have a friend who is graduating nearly an entire year early after taking multiple crazy semesters and a busy summer courseload. He's effectively saving ~25% of his law school cost.

It's not really that crazy of an idea. If your school requires 87 credits and your 1L year required 31+ of them, 2, 18 credit semesters, 1, 6-9 credit summer semester, and 1, 11-14 credit semester would take care of it and cut out a semester. It's more than possible if you devote yourself. I'd say 20 credit hours in your 2L year is about equal to 17 credit hours in your 1L year if you work smart. Another issue is summer semester $$$, but if you're living there anyway if may be a good move.

You don't really have to worry about the large courseload killing your grades (they're not really that good to begin with), and it'll give you at least an extra semester to figure things out while not paying tuition/COL/etc.

I'm not sure every school does this, but if it could save you $30,000+ I'd say it's worth staying.

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Sentry
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Re: Continue for 2L or drop out?

Postby Sentry » Fri May 27, 2011 4:47 pm

rad law wrote:
flcath wrote:Legal Services of North Florida (btw, not a terrible area to live) has to hunt for mediocre SteTTTson grads to fill its spots.


Tagged for myself bro

Legal Services of North Florida website wrote:Work Schedule: Legal Services of North Florida employees work a four-day workweek at 35 hours per week. Office hours are Monday-Thursday, from 8:30 a.m. to 5:15 p.m.

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gwuorbust
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Re: Continue for 2L or drop out?

Postby gwuorbust » Fri May 27, 2011 4:53 pm

Legal Services of North Florida website wrote:Leave: All permanent employees for their first two years of employment accrue annual leave (vacation) at the rate of seven hours per month (which amounts to 2.4 weeks per year); after two years of employment, professional staff begin earning five weeks per year and non-professional staff earn four weeks per year. All employees earn sick leave at the rate of seven hours per month.


4.8 weeks of paid time off for entry level people and 7.4 weeks of paid time off when you've been there for two years! that is incredible.

plum
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Re: Continue for 2L or drop out?

Postby plum » Fri May 27, 2011 5:00 pm

just out of curiosity...people who plan to go this IBR PI route don't plan on getting married during those 10 years right?

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BruceWayne
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Re: Continue for 2L or drop out?

Postby BruceWayne » Fri May 27, 2011 9:12 pm

gwuorbust wrote:broad generalizations largely are worthless. with my International Business degree I could have earned 40-50k at graduation from GWU. if I graduated from the University of Central Florida (many of my friends) with an Intl Bizness degree I'd prob only would have been qualified for a 20-25k year job. It all depends on the market, your school, and what position you are qualified for.


You do realize that this is a repackaged version of my previous posts in this thread right?

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gwuorbust
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Re: Continue for 2L or drop out?

Postby gwuorbust » Sat May 28, 2011 10:18 am

BruceWayne wrote:
gwuorbust wrote:broad generalizations largely are worthless. with my International Business degree I could have earned 40-50k at graduation from GWU. if I graduated from the University of Central Florida (many of my friends) with an Intl Bizness degree I'd prob only would have been qualified for a 20-25k year job. It all depends on the market, your school, and what position you are qualified for.


You do realize that this is a repackaged version of my previous posts in this thread right?


consensus building brah

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Grizz
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Re: Continue for 2L or drop out?

Postby Grizz » Sat May 28, 2011 10:23 am

gwuorbust wrote:
Legal Services of North Florida website wrote:Leave: All permanent employees for their first two years of employment accrue annual leave (vacation) at the rate of seven hours per month (which amounts to 2.4 weeks per year); after two years of employment, professional staff begin earning five weeks per year and non-professional staff earn four weeks per year. All employees earn sick leave at the rate of seven hours per month.


4.8 weeks of paid time off for entry level people and 7.4 weeks of paid time off when you've been there for two years! that is incredible.


Fuck firms bro, Legal Services all the way.

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YourCaptain
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Re: Continue for 2L or drop out?

Postby YourCaptain » Sat May 28, 2011 10:28 am

This is the classic drop out situation.

Get out before you begin racking up debt.

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thexfactor
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Re: Continue for 2L or drop out?

Postby thexfactor » Sat May 28, 2011 10:29 am

What did you major in for Ugrad? if you majored in a sci or engineering you might be able to get 40k. If you did business or accounting there is an outside chance you can get a 30-40k job too. If you did history or poly sci like most law majors then it will be difficult getting a job at all let alone a 30-40k job.

I would drop out in your situation. I know it takes a lot of guts to actually drop out. You should drop out and try to find an internship in the field you are interested in and work for free for a couple months. Then once you get some experience you can find a paid job.

flcath
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Re: Continue for 2L or drop out?

Postby flcath » Sat May 28, 2011 10:41 am

rad law wrote:
gwuorbust wrote:
Legal Services of North Florida website wrote:Leave: All permanent employees for their first two years of employment accrue annual leave (vacation) at the rate of seven hours per month (which amounts to 2.4 weeks per year); after two years of employment, professional staff begin earning five weeks per year and non-professional staff earn four weeks per year. All employees earn sick leave at the rate of seven hours per month.


4.8 weeks of paid time off for entry level people and 7.4 weeks of paid time off when you've been there for two years! that is incredible.


Fuck firms bro, Legal Services all the way.

Don't get me wrong, I think the work sounds fun as fuck too...

but you'll prolly get tired of helping indigent clients who make only a little less than you do. The guy I knew (Marc Tapps, who used to be head honcho but I guess must've just retired) claimed you could work your way up to a $45K salary "fairly quickly," but who knows wtf that means.

These PSLF-eligible (the 10-year PI IBR) gigs definitely "build that in" to the overall compensation package.

YourCaptain wrote:This is the classic drop out situation.

Get out before you begin racking up debt.

Just so OP is aware, this is the "standard" advice.

The problem with it is that it takes a lot of initiative on your part to ensure that you don't end up leading a life of up-selling guacamole and mushrooms on top of steak.

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Corwin
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Re: Continue for 2L or drop out?

Postby Corwin » Sat May 28, 2011 10:45 am

thexfactor wrote:What did you major in for Ugrad? if you majored in a sci or engineering you might be able to get 40k. If you did business or accounting there is an outside chance you can get a 30-40k job too. If you did history or poly sci like most law majors then it will be difficult getting a job at all let alone a 30-40k job.

Engineering pays well north of 40K starting.

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YourCaptain
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Re: Continue for 2L or drop out?

Postby YourCaptain » Sat May 28, 2011 5:50 pm

flcath wrote:
The problem with it is that it takes a lot of initiative on your part to ensure that you don't end up leading a life of up-selling guacamole and mushrooms on top of steak.


What type of TTT steak you eating?

flcath
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Re: Continue for 2L or drop out?

Postby flcath » Sat May 28, 2011 6:51 pm

YourCaptain wrote:
flcath wrote:
The problem with it is that it takes a lot of initiative on your part to ensure that you don't end up leading a life of up-selling guacamole and mushrooms on top of steak.


What type of TTT steak you eating?

*teaching moment*

Chili's.

A substantial emphasis is placed on "upselling" little items that cost like $.59, such as guacamole, bacon, or anything that you put on top of steak (mushrooms, onions, shrimp, etc.), b/c apparently the profit margins on those are high.

Another fun fact: the "sizzle" on the fajitas comes from a can. They spray this shit that looks like hairspray onto the otherwise-unsizzling fajitas right before they are carried out to make them more palatable and attention-grabbing.

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Lawquacious
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Re: Continue for 2L or drop out?

Postby Lawquacious » Sat May 28, 2011 6:58 pm

flcath wrote:
YourCaptain wrote:This is the classic drop out situation.

Get out before you begin racking up debt.

Just so OP is aware, this is the "standard" advice.

The problem with it is that it takes a lot of initiative on your part to ensure that you don't end up leading a life of up-selling guacamole and mushrooms on top of steak.


+1

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Lawquacious
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Re: Continue for 2L or drop out?

Postby Lawquacious » Sat May 28, 2011 6:59 pm

flcath wrote:Another fun fact: the "sizzle" on the fajitas comes from a can. They spray this shit that looks like hairspray onto the otherwise-unsizzling fajitas right before they are carried out to make them more palatable and attention-grabbing.


:shock:

Would you like your sizzle on that, or on the side? :lol:

plum
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Re: Continue for 2L or drop out?

Postby plum » Sat May 28, 2011 7:02 pm

flcath wrote: the "sizzle" on the fajitas comes from a can. They spray this shit that looks like hairspray onto the otherwise-unsizzling fajitas right before they are carried out to make them more palatable and attention-grabbing.

this totally blows my mind. thanks for sharing.

keg411
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Re: Continue for 2L or drop out?

Postby keg411 » Sat May 28, 2011 8:36 pm

plum wrote:
flcath wrote: the "sizzle" on the fajitas comes from a can. They spray this shit that looks like hairspray onto the otherwise-unsizzling fajitas right before they are carried out to make them more palatable and attention-grabbing.

this totally blows my mind. thanks for sharing.


I worked at Chili's for like two weeks and don't remember that. Ew.

flcath
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Re: Continue for 2L or drop out?

Postby flcath » Sat May 28, 2011 9:09 pm

keg411 wrote:
plum wrote:
flcath wrote: the "sizzle" on the fajitas comes from a can. They spray this shit that looks like hairspray onto the otherwise-unsizzling fajitas right before they are carried out to make them more palatable and attention-grabbing.

this totally blows my mind. thanks for sharing.


I worked at Chili's for like two weeks and don't remember that. Ew.

Yeah! How could you forget that?!

Where the "QA" (quality assurance server--what other places call an "expo") would usually yell "I need a runner," he'd yell "I need a fajita runner" for fajitas, b/c it had to be done especially quickly to prevent the fajitas from 'going dead.'

Whoever was standing nearby was expected to immediately go run the fajitas: a Chili's server's duty to run fajitas normally takes precedence over all other duties.

keg411
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Re: Continue for 2L or drop out?

Postby keg411 » Sat May 28, 2011 9:29 pm

Maybe they changed it; I worked there way back in like 2002.

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soaponarope
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Re: Continue for 2L or drop out?

Postby soaponarope » Sat May 28, 2011 10:10 pm

flcath wrote:
keg411 wrote:
plum wrote:
flcath wrote: the "sizzle" on the fajitas comes from a can. They spray this shit that looks like hairspray onto the otherwise-unsizzling fajitas right before they are carried out to make them more palatable and attention-grabbing.

this totally blows my mind. thanks for sharing.


I worked at Chili's for like two weeks and don't remember that. Ew.

Yeah! How could you forget that?!

Where the "QA" (quality assurance server--what other places call an "expo") would usually yell "I need a runner," he'd yell "I need a fajita runner" for fajitas, b/c it had to be done especially quickly to prevent the fajitas from 'going dead.'

Whoever was standing nearby was expected to immediately go run the fajitas: a Chili's server's duty to run fajitas normally takes precedence over all other duties.



I worked at Chilis, and many other places that served sizzling fajitas... the stuff in a "can" is cooking oil which is sprayed on a hot skillet... then vwalla... sizzle.

plum
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Re: Continue for 2L or drop out?

Postby plum » Sat May 28, 2011 10:33 pm

soaponarope wrote:I worked at Chilis, and many other places that served sizzling fajitas... the stuff in a "can" is cooking oil which is sprayed on a hot skillet... then vwalla... sizzle.

well at least it's not actual hairspray. i might eat there again.

non sequitur
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Re: Continue for 2L or drop out?

Postby non sequitur » Sat May 28, 2011 11:53 pm

plum wrote:just out of curiosity...people who plan to go this IBR PI route don't plan on getting married during those 10 years right?


What does getting married within those 10 years have to do with it? Does that affect the income based payments? Do you have to work those 10 years continuously in one location, thus hampering the prospects of a successful marriage?

I'm curious because I don't know.

plum
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Re: Continue for 2L or drop out?

Postby plum » Sun May 29, 2011 12:00 am

non sequitur wrote:
plum wrote:just out of curiosity...people who plan to go this IBR PI route don't plan on getting married during those 10 years right?


What does getting married within those 10 years have to do with it? Does that affect the income based payments? Do you have to work those 10 years continuously in one location, thus hampering the prospects of a successful marriage?

I'm curious because I don't know.

i also don't know much about this that's why i asked, but i was under the impression that your spouse's income counts against you. so if you plan to rely on IBR while making these law decisions (like drop out of stay in school) either don't get married or make sure you marry someone poorer than you. this probably affects women more than men, if women plan to have children before age 35 etc.

boalt2l
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Re: Continue for 2L or drop out?

Postby boalt2l » Sun May 29, 2011 12:07 am

Drop out, you are not going to have the opportunity to practice law either way, so might as well save yourself 100k or so




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