Law School.....easy?

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thecilent
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Re: Law School.....easy?

Postby thecilent » Fri May 27, 2011 11:22 pm

OP just stylin' on peeps at cls. love it.

Plz feel free to post more, esp anything you think is relevant on how you were able to pwn 1L

liLtuneChi
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Re: Law School.....easy?

Postby liLtuneChi » Fri May 27, 2011 11:40 pm

I really think that doing well in law school just comes down to understanding the material. Unfortunately for many of my classmates even by the end of the semester most of them still didn't understand some of the core concepts well enough to write in depth about them on the exam. Law school exams are pretty much the same once you've taken one of them. They are issue spotters. Now you can't spot all the issues unless you know EVERYTHING in the class cold. After that it comes down to weaving all the facts in the fact pattern into the black letter law. Also whenever there are multiple rules that can be used, always make a policy argument for why the one the prof said he preferred in class is the better rule. I really don't think you need anything else.

I would also suggest that keeping the material fresh in your mind when you go to class is crucial. Use the lecture to reinforce what you already got out of the reading the night before. Use old outlines. I cannot stress this point enough they can be a life saver. Rather than wasting your time in the run up to exams rewriting your class notes, it can be more beneficial to be taking practice tests. Also find a good study group about two or three weeks before exams and do practice exams. These discussions after taking the test are invaluable.

Another critical thing is to NOT use hornbooks, commercial outlines, or anything that isn't directly related to the course being taught by the professor. These commercial products can only waste your time. If you can't understand the topics in class, then go to your profs office hours.

This is the one critical change I made from 1st semester to 2nd semester. I did alright first semester (3.6) but felt the hornbooks and commercial outlines were simply useless after taking exams. Now my GPA second semester (4.0) is substantially improved and I credit my improvement to using the hours I spend looking at Glannon or other hornbooks to SLEEPING.

I really studied half as much 2nd semester than I did 1st semester and so far have much better grades. I credit that with studying more efficiently rather than just studying harder.

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thecilent
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Re: Law School.....easy?

Postby thecilent » Fri May 27, 2011 11:45 pm

Okay one more question. You say no hornbooks. So other than the casebook what did you use? EEs? You wouldnt use chermerinsky for con? Or understanding property for property?

edit oh you're saying just casebook and classes. i see

liLtuneChi
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Re: Law School.....easy?

Postby liLtuneChi » Sat May 28, 2011 12:51 am

thecilent wrote:Okay one more question. You say no hornbooks. So other than the casebook what did you use? EEs? You wouldnt use chermerinsky for con? Or understanding property for property?

edit oh you're saying just casebook and classes. i see


I would say NO to all hornbooks unless specifically assigned by your prof and even then it might not be useful at all.

My civ pro prof assigned Glannon and I used it. I personally found it not very useful because it was too simple and covered topics that were not covered in our exam. My torts prof also said that we could read the Abraham hornbook which turned out to be completely useless.

The only EE I would even say you should look at if you have extra time and just want to get in some extra practice is Glannon for Civ Pro. Otherwise your wasting time that could be used doing something useful.

I also think Chemerinsky is fine but only before you actually read the casebook as a tool to help you get the bare bones of what the case is about. But you could do just as well with an old outline made by a past student so even the Chemerinsky book is unneccesary.

I think the best method for studying during the semester is to first read the old outline and see what the main concepts are out of that days reading. Then read the cases while paying special attention to the points that the prof is gonna concentrate on during lecture. Then listen closely during lecture, supplementing the old outline with any info you hear during lecture you think is useful and wasn't included by the other student in the old outline. After that day of class you should feel 100% comfortable with the material and ready to teach someone else if called upon. If you have ANY questions at all, I would suggest asking the prof after class or during office hours. You don't wanna leave any outstanding questions for the end of the semester.

When it comes to about 3-4 weeks before finals, I would suggest finding the smartest kids in class and forming a study group with them. No more than 3-4 people though, cause you don't want it to become a social thing. The only things you should discuss in these study groups are old exams by your prof. Take them on your own and then discuss your answers in the group. You'll learn more taking the old exams and discussing than you will making your own outline.

plum
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Re: Law School.....easy?

Postby plum » Sat May 28, 2011 1:22 am

this is solid advice, thanks OP. congrats on your success.

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Moxie
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Re: Law School.....easy?

Postby Moxie » Sat May 28, 2011 3:08 pm

liLtuneChi wrote:just got my second grade.....another A

now I'm top 5% in the class and need one more A and A- in my remaining 2 classes to get the highest award a 1L can get at CLS which is being recognized as a KENT SCHOLAR.


Valedictorian?

liLtuneChi
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Re: Law School.....easy?

Postby liLtuneChi » Sat May 28, 2011 3:11 pm

Moxie wrote:
liLtuneChi wrote:just got my second grade.....another A

now I'm top 5% in the class and need one more A and A- in my remaining 2 classes to get the highest award a 1L can get at CLS which is being recognized as a KENT SCHOLAR.


Valedictorian?


no

its like a designation that is given to anyone who has a GPA of 3.8 or higher.

usually that is the top 3% of the class

so on any given year there are about 12 1L's who are Kent Scholars at CLS

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Moxie
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Re: Law School.....easy?

Postby Moxie » Sat May 28, 2011 3:20 pm

liLtuneChi wrote:
Moxie wrote:
liLtuneChi wrote:just got my second grade.....another A

now I'm top 5% in the class and need one more A and A- in my remaining 2 classes to get the highest award a 1L can get at CLS which is being recognized as a KENT SCHOLAR.


Valedictorian?


no

its like a designation that is given to anyone who has a GPA of 3.8 or higher.

usually that is the top 3% of the class

so on any given year there are about 12 1L's who are Kent Scholars at CLS


Well being #1 in the class is better than being in the top 12, so I'm not sure how that isn't the biggest honor.

And I'd congratulate you, but you've done enough of that yourself.

liLtuneChi
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Re: Law School.....easy?

Postby liLtuneChi » Sat May 28, 2011 3:47 pm

Moxie wrote:
liLtuneChi wrote:
Moxie wrote:
liLtuneChi wrote:just got my second grade.....another A

now I'm top 5% in the class and need one more A and A- in my remaining 2 classes to get the highest award a 1L can get at CLS which is being recognized as a KENT SCHOLAR.


Valedictorian?


no

its like a designation that is given to anyone who has a GPA of 3.8 or higher.

usually that is the top 3% of the class

so on any given year there are about 12 1L's who are Kent Scholars at CLS


Well being #1 in the class is better than being in the top 12, so I'm not sure how that isn't the biggest honor.

And I'd congratulate you, but you've done enough of that yourself.


because CLS doesn't rank

CLS only gives 1L's two honors. Kent Scholar (usually top 3%) for anyone with a 3.8 GPA or higher. And Stone Scholar (usually top 30%) for anyone with a 3.4 GPA or higher.

I think that during graduation commencement after 3L year they do give an award for having the highest GPA in the class. However remember my comment was just about the highest designation given during 1L year.

NotMyRealName09
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Re: Law School.....easy?

Postby NotMyRealName09 » Wed Jun 01, 2011 3:24 pm

"But one of the things I have really enjoyed about LS is watching people freak out about things they have no control of while I feel in complete control."

THIS.

OP - this thread of yours is a perfect example of what it is to be a doucher. Modesty is a more respectable character trait than douchebaggery.

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fatdouche
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Re: Law School.....easy?

Postby fatdouche » Wed Jun 01, 2011 3:26 pm

Heard people needed a douche in here.

nickwar
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Re: Law School.....easy?

Postby nickwar » Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:50 pm

I haven't done quite as well as you have, but I largely agree.

Law school -- even the second half of 1L -- was a relatively small part of my life. I generally read the cases before class and saved intense studying for the 2-3 days before the test. I rarely outline, as I never use them during exams, and instead read canned outlines a bunch of times until they are burned in my head. My outlines are garbage, anyway, as I found out 1L year.

The law school hype is from a bunch of ultracompetitive nerds who are paranoid someone else has all the answers. I was incredibly nervous about the whole thing my first semester and that ended up being my worst grading period. Now I've relaxed and done things how I always have and I'm doing fine.

And yes -- old exams are the single most important study tool. If a professor makes the "mistake" of including 5-6 old exams with well-scored sample answers I always feel confident I can do very well in the class. There are only so many ways they can ask the same question.

Also -- disregard those who criticize you for such a post. They're the ones complaining 24/7 about law school and trying to make sure everyone else is as miserable as they are. Funny how it's fine to have 100 threads bitching about law school but unacceptable to have 1 talking about how it's "not as bad as everyone made it seem."

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Re: Law School.....easy?

Postby nickwar » Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:58 pm

APimpNamedSlickback wrote:op, i dont think you did that well at cls without having put substantial time in. i did well at harvard, and it took a ridiculous amount of studying. and i dont spin my wheels or waste time either. there was just alot to do.

so i call bullshit: unless you had no profs with weird quirks or heavily policy focus (doubtful), i doubt you simply walked into a room with a bunch of columbia kids and just smoked them.


on another note i also doubt that whatever "natural ability" that people talk about for law, to the extent it exists at all, is some inherent ability. its really more about thinking in a nitpicky systematic way. and that really is learnable: i think that any intelligent person, can in fact grind their way into the top 10% at almost any school, provided they study efficiently. we arent talking about rocket science here.

i'd bet my life savings that the valedictorian at any t1 school would absolutely kill a black letter exam at harvard.



It's not a natural ability to talk about the law; it's a natural ability to take a law school exam. It's just not difficult for some people to write on point and cover all the appropriate bases. I guarantee you I've graded higher on multiple tests than people who knew the material much better than I did. However, as I've experienced from "over studying" for an exam, it often gets you stuck in some ways -- it's hard to explain.

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.

Postby APimpNamedSlickback » Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:34 pm

.
Last edited by APimpNamedSlickback on Tue Sep 06, 2011 2:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Corwin
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Re: Law School.....easy?

Postby Corwin » Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:05 pm

APimpNamedSlickback wrote:so it turns out that the op was in fact flame.

It does? How do you know?

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Tanicius
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Re: Law School.....easy?

Postby Tanicius » Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:21 pm

APimpNamedSlickback wrote:so it turns out that the op was in fact flame.


How?

liLtuneChi
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Re: Law School.....easy?

Postby liLtuneChi » Sat Jun 04, 2011 11:10 pm

APimpNamedSlickback wrote:so it turns out that the op was in fact flame. i'll just point out that i called bullshit right away while everyone else was busy yelling at him for being cocky.

law school is conceptually pretty easy, but it still takes a ton of work to do well at an elite school.


if it soothes your mind then go ahead and believe whatever you want to believe BUT that wasn't me on autoadmit

some fool who read the thread decided to pretend to be me on that site

and yes I'm top 5% at CLS.....enjoyed my time in law school and thought it was pretty easy

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thecilent
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Re: Law School.....easy?

Postby thecilent » Sat Jun 04, 2011 11:14 pm

APimpNamedSlickback wrote:so it turns out that the op was in fact flame. i'll just point out that i called bullshit right away while everyone else was busy yelling at him for being cocky.

you're an idiot

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Kilpatrick
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Re: Law School.....easy?

Postby Kilpatrick » Sat Jun 04, 2011 11:20 pm

Tanicius wrote:
APimpNamedSlickback wrote:so it turns out that the op was in fact flame.


How?


http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thr ... 2#18121675

Don't know if it's true or not, but that's what he was referring to. OPs other thread got locked because of it

liLtuneChi
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Re: Law School.....easy?

Postby liLtuneChi » Sat Jun 04, 2011 11:28 pm

nickwar wrote:I haven't done quite as well as you have, but I largely agree.

Law school -- even the second half of 1L -- was a relatively small part of my life. I generally read the cases before class and saved intense studying for the 2-3 days before the test. I rarely outline, as I never use them during exams, and instead read canned outlines a bunch of times until they are burned in my head. My outlines are garbage, anyway, as I found out 1L year.

The law school hype is from a bunch of ultracompetitive nerds who are paranoid someone else has all the answers. I was incredibly nervous about the whole thing my first semester and that ended up being my worst grading period. Now I've relaxed and done things how I always have and I'm doing fine.

And yes -- old exams are the single most important study tool. If a professor makes the "mistake" of including 5-6 old exams with well-scored sample answers I always feel confident I can do very well in the class. There are only so many ways they can ask the same question.

Also -- disregard those who criticize you for such a post. They're the ones complaining 24/7 about law school and trying to make sure everyone else is as miserable as they are. Funny how it's fine to have 100 threads bitching about law school but unacceptable to have 1 talking about how it's "not as bad as everyone made it seem."


appreciate the kind words

and yeah people over-hype law school.....its not very hard and as long as you can express you thoughts coherently on paper then you should be fine

I think being a good writer is more important than knowing the material cold. Sure it helps to know everything in the course.....but if you can't express that in writing then it doesn't matter.

Keys to Law School Success

(1) go to class every day
(2) use old outlines (preferably made by students who the profs class)
(3) read cases
(4) ask the prof questions about anything you don't understand
(5) about a month before exams start taking practice tests with a study group of other smart people
(6) kill the exams

liLtuneChi
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Re: Law School.....easy?

Postby liLtuneChi » Sat Jun 04, 2011 11:29 pm

Kilpatrick wrote:
Tanicius wrote:
APimpNamedSlickback wrote:so it turns out that the op was in fact flame.


How?


http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thr ... 2#18121675

Don't know if it's true or not, but that's what he was referring to. OPs other thread got locked because of it


if that was really me

think about how dumb it would be for me to post on autoadmit when so many people post/read both sites

shit the only reason I even knew that site existed was because of TLS

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Tanicius
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Re: Law School.....easy?

Postby Tanicius » Sun Jun 05, 2011 12:32 am

liLtuneChi wrote:
Kilpatrick wrote:
Tanicius wrote:
APimpNamedSlickback wrote:so it turns out that the op was in fact flame.


How?


http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thr ... 2#18121675

Don't know if it's true or not, but that's what he was referring to. OPs other thread got locked because of it


if that was really me

think about how dumb it would be for me to post on autoadmit when so many people post/read both sites

shit the only reason I even knew that site existed was because of TLS



Intriguing. Your post begins "if"... 8)

grash
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Re: Law School.....easy?

Postby grash » Sun Jun 05, 2011 12:46 am

APimpNamedSlickback wrote:so it turns out that the op was in fact flame. i'll just point out that i called bullshit right away while everyone else was busy yelling at him for being cocky.

law school is conceptually pretty easy, but it still takes a ton of work to do well at an elite school.


I'm not what you might call 100% sure OP is a flame, but I'd say I'm at least 80% there. I'd guess that he really is very highly ranked at Columbia (perhaps even top 5%), but he's just fucking with everyone re: how much work he had to put in to get there. But hey, it probably is possible that there's a guy out there who really is brilliant enough to breeze through Columbia and land in the top 5%. But it's improbable that any more than a couple people reading this can duplicate that feat.

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dj_spin
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Re: Law School.....easy?

Postby dj_spin » Sun Jun 05, 2011 1:50 am

The idea that one of the top 20 students at a law school would behave like this disheartens me. I suppose it says something about CLS. In a perfect world, OP would have confided his success in his peers. But at CLS, grade-talk is such a major faux pas, students are driven to TLS.

OP, I go to CLS, I'm in your class. PM me if you would like to celebrate a good 1L. But don't do what you're doing out here: it's almost offensive gaucherie.

liLtuneChi
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Re: Law School.....easy?

Postby liLtuneChi » Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:18 am

grash wrote:
APimpNamedSlickback wrote:so it turns out that the op was in fact flame. i'll just point out that i called bullshit right away while everyone else was busy yelling at him for being cocky.

law school is conceptually pretty easy, but it still takes a ton of work to do well at an elite school.


I'm not what you might call 100% sure OP is a flame, but I'd say I'm at least 80% there. I'd guess that he really is very highly ranked at Columbia (perhaps even top 5%), but he's just fucking with everyone re: how much work he had to put in to get there. But hey, it probably is possible that there's a guy out there who really is brilliant enough to breeze through Columbia and land in the top 5%. But it's improbable that any more than a couple people reading this can duplicate that feat.


LOL

who the hell said I breezed through it?

Breezing through is just showing up to the exam and getting an A. I actually read all the cases and attended every single class just like everyone else. I probably took more practice exams and discussed the class materials more than many of my classmates. Its not that I didn't study hard, I just studied in a different manner that I found more EFFICIENT than my classmates.

Instead of creating outlines.....I used old ones from the g-drive.

Instead of reading hornbooks and commercial outlines.....I simply focused on the profs lectures.

Instead of spending the study period before exams trying to review all the material....I was taking practice exams each day.


I said law school was EASY because I was able to get top 5% without spending all day in the library and reading 10 million hornbooks on the subject. PLUS I actually ENJOYED the experience so I didn't have any stress to deal with.




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