What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

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LS-boundNYC
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Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby LS-boundNYC » Mon May 09, 2011 11:46 am

I will definitely be referring to this frequently in the coming months! (OP - will you share your top tips or whatever you'll be using? It'd be interesting to see how someone else parses all the good advice here.)

forty-two
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Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby forty-two » Mon May 09, 2011 11:48 am

Cupidity wrote:4) Score easy points on exams. While the meat of the torts question might be whether or not there was causation, neglecting to mention duty, breach, and damages will get you a B at best, even if your analysis of the complex portion is brilliant.

I forgot to mention this. ALWAYS look for the easy points. Another way to do this is to pace yourself on exams. I was talking to a prof the other day, and he was saying that way too many students spend too much time on the first essays and run out of time at the end. He says it's always better to just move on, pick up the easy points on the next essay, and come back later if there are still a few more nuanced points that you want to make.

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Cupidity
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Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby Cupidity » Mon May 09, 2011 11:53 am

forty-two wrote:
Cupidity wrote:4) Score easy points on exams. While the meat of the torts question might be whether or not there was causation, neglecting to mention duty, breach, and damages will get you a B at best, even if your analysis of the complex portion is brilliant.

I forgot to mention this. ALWAYS look for the easy points. Another way to do this is to pace yourself on exams. I was talking to a prof the other day, and he was saying that way too many students spend too much time on the first essays and run out of time at the end. He says it's always better to just move on, pick up the easy points on the next essay, and come back later if there are still a few more nuanced points that you want to make.


No one in my class completely finished the Conlaw Exam, it had roughly 30 sub-parts inside 2 giant issue spotters. 10k words was insufficient for me to address all the points. We'll see if my own advice pays off again this semester, but I neglected some of the more complex issues in order to score the cheap points on every sub-section.

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uwb09
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Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby uwb09 » Mon May 09, 2011 1:20 pm

1 - focus on your casebook/assigned readings and what the professor discusses in class. Any random/obscure nuances in the law that you will find in supplements will earn you very few, if any, points on exams. The professor is testing you on what they are teaching you, not on what you can find by researching Property 24/7 for 4 months. Too many students spend their days buried in a dozen different supplements only to get median or below on exams because they neglected the main/easy points in a quest to find some hidden point buried in the fact pattern.

2 - You don't need to "exam outline" as you go, but I find it extremely helpful to "class outline." By this I mean taking the basic rules of law as learned in book/class, very mini case recaps, and combining them in one location (WORD document). I model this class outline against the syllabus. Then when I get around to making my exam/study outline, I have all my information in one organized place, and just basically need to re-process, condense, and organize into my exam outline. So many people waste precious time before an exam combining things from supplements/casebook/class notes, when they could use that time taking practice exams/hypos.

3 - TAKE AS MANY HYPOS/PRACTICE EXAMS AS YOU CAN!! I don't care how well you know the law, once you start taking practice exams you will realize how easy it is to miss tons of points, and frankly, you will NEVER get a perfect score on an exam, that alone should make you understand why it's important to take as many as possible and figure out how to get MAXIMUM points.

4 - Exams will make you feel stupid. Anyone who walks out of an exam thinking "damn that was easy/i feel great" is either (a) about to get below median on their grade, or (b) a genius freak of nature. Odds are you aren't (b), and you don't wanna be (a), so relax, it's ok to feel stupid/humbled, everyone does.

5 - enjoy life, work out, eat healthy, and take it easy. Keep up on your reading, take notes as you go, and try to learn the concepts as you go. Trying to actually learn/understand everything right before the exam is just another way to lose time on taking practice exams/hypos. If you read a case, read the law, and understand it, then maybe do a quick CALI lesson on it to verify then move on. You might forget the intricacies when exam-review time comes, but the fact that you understood it the first time means you will quickly re-learn it during review. However, if you really don't understand something first time around, and you just move past it, you're gonna give yourself a stomach ulcer freaking out when you don't understand it come exam time, plus waste precious time having to actually learn it, when you could be taking practice exams/hypos.

there's more, but i'll save it for another time, I have a Civ Pro exam in 7 hours

NarwhalPunter
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Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby NarwhalPunter » Mon May 09, 2011 3:43 pm

1) CALI everythang

2) Sleep with everyone

3) Mock stupid gunner comments with your Gchat status

4) Only befriend the teachers who actually enjoy people, not the robots without people skills- CUZ THEY GOTS NO LAWYER FRIENDZ TO HOOK YOU UP WITH

5) Day drink while it's nice outside

kehoema2
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Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby kehoema2 » Mon May 09, 2011 4:09 pm

NarwhalPunter wrote:1) CALI everythang

2) Sleep with everyone

3) Mock stupid gunner comments with your Gchat status

4) Only befriend the teachers who actually enjoy people, not the robots without people skills- CUZ THEY GOTS NO LAWYER FRIENDZ TO HOOK YOU UP WITH

5) Day drink while it's nice outside


Ha, nice.

Journeybound
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Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby Journeybound » Mon May 09, 2011 4:23 pm

1. Read 1L by Scott Turrow. It will scare you to death and get you prepared to put those insane hours in each week.

2. Make a plan on how you will study and make outlines. I read "Law School Confidential" and used that as my bible. You have to know what's coming. (I placed top 3%, 1L). Stick to that plan.

3. Read "Getting to Maybe," so that you know how to get the most points out of an exam.

4. By the middle of the first semester, start reading/taking practice exams. Become very familiar with sample answers so that you know how an exam should look.

5. Prepare for EVERY class, go to EVERY class, and turn off the internet and pay attention/take notes in EVERY class. You should have a maximum 2 or so hours of free time a day for meals, exercise, TV (although I had a wife to make this happen). The rest of the day should be filled with briefing, outlining, going to class, practice exams. NO REGRETS. You never want to ask: what would have happened if I had spent that Saturday studying?

-As you can tell, I had no out-of-school social life during my 1L. But I bonded with my classmates while at school/in the library. I loved it, and I have no regrets.

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BruceWayne
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Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby BruceWayne » Mon May 09, 2011 4:33 pm

1. Do 0L prep. Learn the basics of the subjects for your first semester before you get to law school. This will allow you to spend more time during the semester preparing answers for the exams and will give you the time to practice using your pre answers on practice exams (this leads into my second tip). Most ( if not all) of the people in my section who are at the top of the class did 0L summer prep.

2. Prepare answers during the semester for final exams. You can do this by talking to upper class students about what to expect on an exam, and by paying attention to the "hot" legal disputes on an issue. If you talk to enough students, pay attention in class, and go to office hours you can do a very good job of constructing answers before hand that align with the questions asked on the final. Just put in the pre made answer and plug in the unique facts from the exam. This is a very common tactic amongst high ranking students.

3. Don't waste a lot of time with traditional outlining. It's a waste of time and won't help you on your exam. Instead, build and "outline" that has pre answers in it for each subject. So go through the syllabus and topic by topic include pre made answers relating to that topic.

4. Don't use supplements except for those that the teacher takes their doctrine from. If they take their ideology from a particular supplement buy it and incorporate the supplement into your pre answers. You only want to use supplements during your 0L prep (if you can). You should use them during the summer to get an understanding of the Black letter law, because the BLL is the same no matter who your professor is. But during the semester you don't want to be spending time learning BLL--if you are then you are behind the ball. During the semester you are trying to learn your professors opinions and personal tendencies so that you can use this on the exam. You don't want to waste time on supplements learning the BLL during the semester. You should already have a working knowledge of the BLL when you arrive to school.

5. Learn to type as fast as possible and try to find students who received A's in your professors classes; when you do ask if you can see there exams. Try your best to model there exams when you take your actual exams. Many of the high ranking 1L's at my school used all of these tactics.
Last edited by BruceWayne on Mon May 09, 2011 4:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Burgstaller04
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Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby Burgstaller04 » Mon May 09, 2011 4:43 pm

Countdown to 1L is less than 100 days for me. I'll be back to check this out.

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quakeroats
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Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby quakeroats » Mon May 09, 2011 4:50 pm

1. Don't make your own outline from scratch. Instead, find 5-10 outlines from other students who have taken your professor's class or from Harvard and Yale students and use them to create an outline. Go through each one and note the strengths and weaknesses of how each student described the material, what they've included and excluded, and most importantly, what they've gotten wrong and why.

2. Find and read over sample exam answers from Harvard and Yale. While they aren't perfect these answers tend to be better than what you'll find elsewhere. Use these to get comfortable with the format of a good exam answer, and note the different styles that can be successful. These exams will help you learn what to include, exclude, and how.

3. Repeat #2 with your own professors tests and sample answers.

4. Make the most of shortcuts. Does your professor tend to base exam questions on what she's most recently published? If so, you might want to read her most recent law review articles. Does your professor ask popular policy questions, e.g., what do you think about promissory estoppel as it relates to the rest of K law, should we move to a wait-and-see version of the RAP, what place does strict liability have in tort? If so, you should find, understand, and write answers for them, but be sure to note how the question on your exam differs from what you've practiced. I've noticed at least one shortcut in every class I've taken. Go and do likewise.

5. In your spare time, learn to love the areas of law you're studying. This is easier in subjects where emotion is close to the surface (Crim, Torts), but it's possible even in the drier material. If you enjoy what you're doing--enough that you want to continue studying when you're working on other things--the journey will be easier.

keg411
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Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby keg411 » Mon May 09, 2011 5:06 pm

1. Be organized. In your day-to-day schedule, in your writing, overall. You may feel like you are being anal or OCD, but it helps. Also, by in your writing, I mean the ability to copy your legal writing professor's format or the format your profs want for finals. THIS IS PROBABLY THE #1 THING. If you are a good, organized, writer, it will give you a leg up early.

2. Get old outlines. Especially A outlines. Use them to make your own. Also, play around with outlining early, but be flexible enough to scrap what isn't working.

3. Get your professors old practice exams and do them before finals. Copy the format of model answers if they are available. Although professors will change the facts and the hypos and what parts of the doctrine they test, the exam format will generally be the same.

4. Outside of the few weeks of exam time, try to enjoy law school and enjoy what you are learning. It will make the studying much easier. There is something to be said about the power of positive thinking :).

5. Find something simple and relaxing that you like and do it every week if possible. For me, it was grocery shopping on Sunday mornings because I made me feel like I was still an "adult" in the "real world" like I had been when I was working.

lsatClay
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Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby lsatClay » Mon May 09, 2011 5:14 pm

Keep a line between home and school. Treat it like a job. Stay at the law school from 8-5 (or whenever you are done) and finish everything. When you go home, you should be completely done with lawschool stuff.
Relax. Its not life or death. If you get a C its not the end of the world. I'd rather get a B then get an A by killing myself with stress.
Outline all the cases. People may mock me for this, but it helps you learn how to read cases.
Try to be social. There will be a lot of pressure to be in study mode 24/7/365 but you gotta make time to have fun.
Don't help anyone. Its graded on a curve, their success is your downfall. People will ask you to help them understand future interests, the rule of lenity, etc. Say "I don't know". No sharing of outlines, tutoring your friends, etc.

forty-two
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Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby forty-two » Mon May 09, 2011 5:40 pm

lsatClay wrote:Don't help anyone. Its graded on a curve, their success is your downfall. People will ask you to help them understand future interests, the rule of lenity, etc. Say "I don't know". No sharing of outlines, tutoring your friends, etc.

You're joking, right? If not, this is terrible advice. Yes, we're graded on a curve, but talking things out usually reinforces concepts AND people tend to help those who have helped them in the past. The people I've helped (by giving them notes/outlines/practice exams or just explaining concepts to them) are always more than willing to help me when I need it.

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kalvano
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Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby kalvano » Mon May 09, 2011 5:44 pm

Journeybound wrote:1. Read 1L by Scott Turrow. It will scare you to death and get you prepared to put those insane hours in each week.



That booked sucked ass. It only made me want to punch him in his whiny face.


Journeybound wrote:5. Prepare for EVERY class, go to EVERY class, and turn off the internet and pay attention/take notes in EVERY class. You should have a maximum 2 or so hours of free time a day for meals, exercise, TV (although I had a wife to make this happen). The rest of the day should be filled with briefing, outlining, going to class, practice exams. NO REGRETS. You never want to ask: what would have happened if I had spent that Saturday studying?


This is the worst advice I have ever heard. If you want to go bugfuck nuts, then follow this. Otherwise, find a nice balance.

lsatClay wrote:Don't help anyone. Its graded on a curve, their success is your downfall. People will ask you to help them understand future interests, the rule of lenity, etc. Say "I don't know". No sharing of outlines, tutoring your friends, etc.


You're a fucking bag of cock. Die in a fire.

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BruceWayne
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Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby BruceWayne » Mon May 09, 2011 5:58 pm

kalvano wrote:
Journeybound wrote:1. Read 1L by Scott Turrow. It will scare you to death and get you prepared to put those insane hours in each week.



That booked sucked ass. It only made me want to punch him in his whiny face.


Journeybound wrote:5. Prepare for EVERY class, go to EVERY class, and turn off the internet and pay attention/take notes in EVERY class. You should have a maximum 2 or so hours of free time a day for meals, exercise, TV (although I had a wife to make this happen). The rest of the day should be filled with briefing, outlining, going to class, practice exams. NO REGRETS. You never want to ask: what would have happened if I had spent that Saturday studying?


This is the worst advice I have ever heard. If you want to go bugfuck nuts, then follow this. Otherwise, find a nice balance.

lsatClay wrote:Don't help anyone. Its graded on a curve, their success is your downfall. People will ask you to help them understand future interests, the rule of lenity, etc. Say "I don't know". No sharing of outlines, tutoring your friends, etc.


You're a fucking bag of cock. Die in a fire.



Your opinion about this guy may be very legit. But be thankful that he's telling you this. He's giving you a dose of reality. Contrary t what this website may tell you, his approach is very very common.

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kalvano
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Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby kalvano » Mon May 09, 2011 6:01 pm

Not here. No one acts that dickish.

forty-two
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Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby forty-two » Mon May 09, 2011 6:10 pm

BruceWayne wrote:He's giving you a dose of reality. Contrary t what this website may tell you, his approach is very very common.

Seriously??? Every time I've asked someone for help at school I've gotten detailed answers, hypos/old exams, notes, or outlines (either their personal outlines or outlines that older students made), depending on what my question required. This is even true when I don't know the person all that well.

keg411
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Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby keg411 » Mon May 09, 2011 6:45 pm

forty-two wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:He's giving you a dose of reality. Contrary t what this website may tell you, his approach is very very common.

Seriously??? Every time I've asked someone for help at school I've gotten detailed answers, hypos/old exams, notes, or outlines (either their personal outlines or outlines that older students made), depending on what my question required. This is even true when I don't know the person all that well.


For every time I've given someone something that could be helpful/useful for an exam, I've gotten something equally back for it. If anything, I learned in law school it's much better to work in groups and share ideas than to try and do it on your own.

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BruceWayne
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Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby BruceWayne » Mon May 09, 2011 6:47 pm

keg411 wrote:Seriously. For every time I've given someone something that could be helpful/useful for an exam, I've gotten something equally back for it. If anything, I learned in law school it's much better to work in groups and share ideas than to try and do it on your own.


You're seriously naive if you don't realize that there are tons of people who have the mentality that that poster mentioned. This idea that they don't, and that law school is this kumbaya experience is one of the biggest fallacies perpetuated on this website.

keg411
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Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby keg411 » Mon May 09, 2011 6:48 pm

BruceWayne wrote:
keg411 wrote:Seriously. For every time I've given someone something that could be helpful/useful for an exam, I've gotten something equally back for it. If anything, I learned in law school it's much better to work in groups and share ideas than to try and do it on your own.


You're seriously naive if you don't realize that there are tons of people who have the mentality that that poster mentioned. This idea that they don't, and that law school is this kumbaya experience is one of the biggest fallacies perpetuated on this website.


I'm not saying that people don't have that mentality. I'm saying its a foolish one. Because if you just work on your own you have no idea if you have the "right" answer or if you're totally wrong. Sometimes you have to concede that your classmates are smarter than you and by sharing stuff with them, you get stuff in return.

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kalvano
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Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby kalvano » Mon May 09, 2011 6:50 pm

BruceWayne wrote:
keg411 wrote:Seriously. For every time I've given someone something that could be helpful/useful for an exam, I've gotten something equally back for it. If anything, I learned in law school it's much better to work in groups and share ideas than to try and do it on your own.


You're seriously naive if you don't realize that there are tons of people who have the mentality that that poster mentioned. This idea that they don't, and that law school is this kumbaya experience is one of the biggest fallacies perpetuated on this website.



I'm thinking this is an issue for you, not other people. If everyone else is not having the same experience, perhaps you ought to examine what is causing you to have it.

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uwb09
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Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby uwb09 » Mon May 09, 2011 6:54 pm

It should be known to OLs that there are bags of dicks like the poster above, but it should also be noted that he makes up a relative small portion of people, and frankly those people about as anti-social as it gets so you probably won't be talking to them casually to begin with.

There is life after law school, and trust me, I've already made judgments in my mind about who I would want to work in the future, who I would recommend clients to, who I would hang out my neck for, etc...

and people who treat law school like a cage match and treat their fellow students like shit, they aren't going to have many people to lean on. Especially if their a-holeness doesn't land them uber grades/big law, and they have to resort to networking to find a job...

aliarrow
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Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby aliarrow » Mon May 09, 2011 6:58 pm

.
Last edited by aliarrow on Thu May 12, 2011 11:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Kilpatrick
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Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby Kilpatrick » Mon May 09, 2011 7:02 pm

kalvano wrote:
Journeybound wrote:1. Read 1L by Scott Turrow. It will scare you to death and get you prepared to put those insane hours in each week.



That booked sucked ass. It only made me want to punch him in his whiny face.


Totally agree. I actually re-read it after first semester just to laugh at how stupid that guy is.


Journeybound wrote:5. Prepare for EVERY class, go to EVERY class, and turn off the internet and pay attention/take notes in EVERY class. You should have a maximum 2 or so hours of free time a day for meals, exercise, TV (although I had a wife to make this happen). The rest of the day should be filled with briefing, outlining, going to class, practice exams. NO REGRETS. You never want to ask: what would have happened if I had spent that Saturday studying?


This is insane. I worked so so much less than this and was top 5% first semester. Work smart. 2 hours of free time a day? I spent more time than that just playing video games.

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kalvano
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Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby kalvano » Mon May 09, 2011 7:05 pm

You don't leave points on the table by not knowing the subject matter, typically. You leave points on the table by not spotting and discussing issues. You need to know the law going into an exam, but spending 14 hours a day is a waste of time. It's working for the sake of working.




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