What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

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2011Cycle
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Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby 2011Cycle » Sun Jun 05, 2011 6:33 pm

ridleyroses wrote:1. Read all the relevant E&E books before the semester. It seems silly to me when people say that you shouldn't do this, because there will be so much work during the semester, and you'll burn out. The fact of the matter is there isn't all that much work during the semester if you're working efficiently and not being nuts/stupid about getting into fact patterns. Studying the topic in full before you learn it again would help tremendously, in my opinion. You'd give yourself a very solid background, and classes with particularly straight-forward teachers sometimes are literally quoting from books like gilberts, just to give you an idea of how useful the E&Es are.


Seems from you prior posts in other forums you are a 0L. If so, are you using information provided by other law students when you say professors are quoting from books like Gilbert's?

goodolgil
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Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby goodolgil » Sun Jun 05, 2011 6:44 pm

2011Cycle wrote:
ridleyroses wrote:1. Read all the relevant E&E books before the semester. It seems silly to me when people say that you shouldn't do this, because there will be so much work during the semester, and you'll burn out. The fact of the matter is there isn't all that much work during the semester if you're working efficiently and not being nuts/stupid about getting into fact patterns. Studying the topic in full before you learn it again would help tremendously, in my opinion. You'd give yourself a very solid background, and classes with particularly straight-forward teachers sometimes are literally quoting from books like gilberts, just to give you an idea of how useful the E&Es are.


Seems from you prior posts in other forums you are a 0L. If so, are you using information provided by other law students when you say professors are quoting from books like Gilbert's?


K, I'm not usually about the whole "GTFO 0L" thing, but is a person who seriously not started law school yet giving advice to incoming students? "The fact of the matter is there isn't all that much work during the semester if you're working efficiently and not being nuts/stupid about getting into fact patterns." From a non-law student? Seriously?

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shepdawg
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Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby shepdawg » Sun Jun 05, 2011 6:44 pm

jjlaw wrote:Several people ITT have already mentioned "do what works for you", which is a tip I've heard outside of TLS as well. I was wondering if people could go into a more detail about what worked for them? I am just curious to see the different methods that people used. I've read MegaTTTron and Arrow's detailed advice about how they studied throughout the semester, but it would be great to see a little more of everyone's system that they used.

Did you use flashcards? Binders to organize topics? Combine your outline with other people's outlines throughout the semester to build a master outline? Did you read E&Es and supplements along with cases for each night of reading? Or did you just stick to cases and go to E&Es/supplements later in the semester? How did you juggle reading with legal writing assignments? Basically, it would be great if people could tell us what they did in detail the 1st half of the semester vs. the 2nd half of the semester.
In the link of compiled suggestions I made, I only included things I did or recommend. If you don't have time to read all 9 pages of this thread, take a look at the link in the OP.

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NYC Law
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Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby NYC Law » Sun Jun 05, 2011 6:46 pm

goodolgil wrote:
2011Cycle wrote:
ridleyroses wrote:1. Read all the relevant E&E books before the semester. It seems silly to me when people say that you shouldn't do this, because there will be so much work during the semester, and you'll burn out. The fact of the matter is there isn't all that much work during the semester if you're working efficiently and not being nuts/stupid about getting into fact patterns. Studying the topic in full before you learn it again would help tremendously, in my opinion. You'd give yourself a very solid background, and classes with particularly straight-forward teachers sometimes are literally quoting from books like gilberts, just to give you an idea of how useful the E&Es are.


Seems from you prior posts in other forums you are a 0L. If so, are you using information provided by other law students when you say professors are quoting from books like Gilbert's?


K, I'm not usually about the whole "GTFO 0L" thing, but is a person who seriously not started law school yet giving advice to incoming students? "The fact of the matter is there isn't all that much work during the semester if you're working efficiently and not being nuts/stupid about getting into fact patterns." From a non-law student? Seriously?

His 0L posts were from spring 2010.... So Im pretty sure he is a rising 2L at this point

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2011Cycle
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Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby 2011Cycle » Sun Jun 05, 2011 6:48 pm

I apologize to ridley for not noticing his last post was 2010. That being said I agree, as a current 0L, I will be more comfortable starting having read the EE's in the substantive 1L subjects.

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Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby jjlaw » Sun Jun 05, 2011 6:54 pm

shepdawg wrote:
jjlaw wrote:Several people ITT have already mentioned "do what works for you", which is a tip I've heard outside of TLS as well. I was wondering if people could go into a more detail about what worked for them? I am just curious to see the different methods that people used. I've read MegaTTTron and Arrow's detailed advice about how they studied throughout the semester, but it would be great to see a little more of everyone's system that they used.

Did you use flashcards? Binders to organize topics? Combine your outline with other people's outlines throughout the semester to build a master outline? Did you read E&Es and supplements along with cases for each night of reading? Or did you just stick to cases and go to E&Es/supplements later in the semester? How did you juggle reading with legal writing assignments? Basically, it would be great if people could tell us what they did in detail the 1st half of the semester vs. the 2nd half of the semester.
In the link of compiled suggestions I made, I only included things I did or recommend. If you don't have time to read all 9 pages of this thread, take a look at the link in the OP.


Thanks, Shep. I read (and saved) your blog post, as well as the other 9 pages in this thread. Just wondering if more people could give details on specifically how they studied. Basically, I'd like to get as much of a sense of "what works for you" as possible and open the discussion beyond those three valuable links.

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Gemini
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Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby Gemini » Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:23 pm

Lots of useful info here, thanks!

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DocHawkeye
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Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby DocHawkeye » Sun Jun 05, 2011 9:45 pm

2011Cycle wrote:I apologize to ridley for not noticing his last post was 2010. That being said I agree, as a current 0L, I will be more comfortable starting having read the EE's in the substantive 1L subjects.


Pardon the stupid 0L question, but "EE's" are...?

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Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby beach_terror » Sun Jun 05, 2011 9:46 pm

DocHawkeye wrote:
2011Cycle wrote:I apologize to ridley for not noticing his last post was 2010. That being said I agree, as a current 0L, I will be more comfortable starting having read the EE's in the substantive 1L subjects.


Pardon the stupid 0L question, but "EE's" are...?

The Examples and Explanations series.

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Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby eyedub » Sun Jun 05, 2011 10:05 pm

théo wrote:
FantasticMrFox wrote:
gokickrocks wrote:Awesome info in here. Thanks everyone!

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shepdawg
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Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby shepdawg » Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:25 pm

I'd be interested to hear testimonials from students who did read E & E's during their 0L summer. However, most people fail to include the most relevant fact: Ranking after 1L year.

I feel they'd be a waste of time for 0L summer, but they helped me during the school year. I got the top score in the class I used the E&E in most. Didn't use them during 0L summer. 2% rank.

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Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby Naked Dude » Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:07 am

Shit now I might actually try to get some E&E's to avoid feeling guilty. I draw the line at hornbooks though. Come on.

Speaking of which, has anyone had any experience with those "nutshell" books? My aunt has suggested that I read the Contracts one to get some background. But with all the other pleasure reading I have planned, I think I'll be lucky to finish LEEWS and GTM. See. This is what law school does to you, I'm sure. Truth be told, I don't give a flying fuck. No wait, I do, I really really do. It sounds absurd to me to read hornbooks and E&E's over the summer. I've crossed the rubicon though-I've begun reading the 0L worrying about preparation. I'm looking at what everyone else is doing and comparing myself to them and feeling guilty. And I don't know if it's logic or laziness telling me that I'll be more than fine with LEEWS and GTM. I feel I've discovered some sort of law student reality distortion field. Oh god make it stop...I can feel myself...becoming...type a...

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Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby beach_terror » Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:12 am

Naked Dude wrote:Shit now I might actually try to get some E&E's to avoid feeling guilty. I draw the line at hornbooks though. Come on.

Speaking of which, has anyone had any experience with those "nutshell" books? My aunt has suggested that I read the Contracts one to get some background. But with all the other pleasure reading I have planned, I think I'll be lucky to finish LEEWS and GTM. See. This is what law school does to you, I'm sure. Truth be told, I don't give a flying fuck. No wait, I do, I really really do. It sounds absurd to me to read hornbooks and E&E's over the summer. I've crossed the rubicon though-I've begun reading the 0L worrying about preparation. I'm looking at what everyone else is doing and comparing myself to them and feeling guilty. And I don't know if it's logic or laziness telling me that I'll be more than fine with LEEWS and GTM. I feel I've discovered some sort of law student reality distortion field. Oh god make it stop...I can feel myself...becoming...type a...

Believe it or not, but the teachers teach you what you need to know in law school. Teaching it to yourself 3 months before isn't going to put you at any advantage. Learn how to take LS exams and write LS answers, that's far more important. Otherwise chill out and enjoy your freedom.

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NYC Law
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Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby NYC Law » Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:16 am

beach_terror wrote:
Naked Dude wrote:Shit now I might actually try to get some E&E's to avoid feeling guilty. I draw the line at hornbooks though. Come on.

Speaking of which, has anyone had any experience with those "nutshell" books? My aunt has suggested that I read the Contracts one to get some background. But with all the other pleasure reading I have planned, I think I'll be lucky to finish LEEWS and GTM. See. This is what law school does to you, I'm sure. Truth be told, I don't give a flying fuck. No wait, I do, I really really do. It sounds absurd to me to read hornbooks and E&E's over the summer. I've crossed the rubicon though-I've begun reading the 0L worrying about preparation. I'm looking at what everyone else is doing and comparing myself to them and feeling guilty. And I don't know if it's logic or laziness telling me that I'll be more than fine with LEEWS and GTM. I feel I've discovered some sort of law student reality distortion field. Oh god make it stop...I can feel myself...becoming...type a...

Believe it or not, but the teachers teach you what you need to know in law school. Teaching it to yourself 3 months before isn't going to put you at any advantage. Learn how to take LS exams and write LS answers, that's far more important. Otherwise chill out and enjoy your freedom.


Yeah, I'm starting to think more and more this is the truth.
Even Xeoh was against it, despite his "No fun at all 1L year" approach cementing his status as the ultimate gunner.

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Borhas
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Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby Borhas » Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:16 am

shepdawg wrote:I'd be interested to hear testimonials from students who did read E & E's during their 0L summer. However, most people fail to include the most relevant fact: Ranking after 1L year.

I feel they'd be a waste of time for 0L summer, but they helped me during the school year. I got the top score in the class I used the E&E in most. Didn't use them during 0L summer. 2% rank.


read the torts E&E over the summer, so far torts has been (tied for) my lowest grade (B+) all my grades aren't in, but my guess is 5-15% rank

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Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby D-hops » Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:19 am

beach_terror wrote:
Naked Dude wrote:Shit now I might actually try to get some E&E's to avoid feeling guilty. I draw the line at hornbooks though. Come on.

Speaking of which, has anyone had any experience with those "nutshell" books? My aunt has suggested that I read the Contracts one to get some background. But with all the other pleasure reading I have planned, I think I'll be lucky to finish LEEWS and GTM. See. This is what law school does to you, I'm sure. Truth be told, I don't give a flying fuck. No wait, I do, I really really do. It sounds absurd to me to read hornbooks and E&E's over the summer. I've crossed the rubicon though-I've begun reading the 0L worrying about preparation. I'm looking at what everyone else is doing and comparing myself to them and feeling guilty. And I don't know if it's logic or laziness telling me that I'll be more than fine with LEEWS and GTM. I feel I've discovered some sort of law student reality distortion field. Oh god make it stop...I can feel myself...becoming...type a...

Believe it or not, but the teachers teach you what you need to know in law school. Teaching it to yourself 3 months before isn't going to put you at any advantage. Learn how to take LS exams and write LS answers, that's far more important. Otherwise chill out and enjoy your freedom.


Unfortunately the bold is not always true. Many professors, and most all of mine, did in fact teach the law in a way that was decipherable, but some are known to teach very abstractly and then test on the black letter law. In those situations, get an old student's (that did well in the class) outline. Those are going to be far more helpful than any hornbook or E&E because the professor will have covered, generally, the same topics from year to year.

Having said that, don't read that kind of stuff before you are in law school or before you are at least most of the way through your class, it is a waste of time that early on.

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Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby Verity » Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:25 am

D-hops wrote:
beach_terror wrote:
Naked Dude wrote:Shit now I might actually try to get some E&E's to avoid feeling guilty. I draw the line at hornbooks though. Come on.

Speaking of which, has anyone had any experience with those "nutshell" books? My aunt has suggested that I read the Contracts one to get some background. But with all the other pleasure reading I have planned, I think I'll be lucky to finish LEEWS and GTM. See. This is what law school does to you, I'm sure. Truth be told, I don't give a flying fuck. No wait, I do, I really really do. It sounds absurd to me to read hornbooks and E&E's over the summer. I've crossed the rubicon though-I've begun reading the 0L worrying about preparation. I'm looking at what everyone else is doing and comparing myself to them and feeling guilty. And I don't know if it's logic or laziness telling me that I'll be more than fine with LEEWS and GTM. I feel I've discovered some sort of law student reality distortion field. Oh god make it stop...I can feel myself...becoming...type a...

Believe it or not, but the teachers teach you what you need to know in law school. Teaching it to yourself 3 months before isn't going to put you at any advantage. Learn how to take LS exams and write LS answers, that's far more important. Otherwise chill out and enjoy your freedom.


Unfortunately the bold is not always true. Many professors, and most all of mine, did in fact teach the law in a way that was decipherable, but some are known to teach very abstractly and then test on the black letter law. In those situations, get an old student's (that did well in the class) outline. Those are going to be far more helpful than any hornbook or E&E because the professor will have covered, generally, the same topics from year to year.

Having said that, don't read that kind of stuff before you are in law school or before you are at least most of the way through your class, it is a waste of time that early on.


This is why all 1Ls need to read past exams and work through them.

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D-hops
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Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby D-hops » Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:28 am

Verity wrote:
D-hops wrote:
beach_terror wrote:
Naked Dude wrote:Shit now I might actually try to get some E&E's to avoid feeling guilty. I draw the line at hornbooks though. Come on.

Speaking of which, has anyone had any experience with those "nutshell" books? My aunt has suggested that I read the Contracts one to get some background. But with all the other pleasure reading I have planned, I think I'll be lucky to finish LEEWS and GTM. See. This is what law school does to you, I'm sure. Truth be told, I don't give a flying fuck. No wait, I do, I really really do. It sounds absurd to me to read hornbooks and E&E's over the summer. I've crossed the rubicon though-I've begun reading the 0L worrying about preparation. I'm looking at what everyone else is doing and comparing myself to them and feeling guilty. And I don't know if it's logic or laziness telling me that I'll be more than fine with LEEWS and GTM. I feel I've discovered some sort of law student reality distortion field. Oh god make it stop...I can feel myself...becoming...type a...

Believe it or not, but the teachers teach you what you need to know in law school. Teaching it to yourself 3 months before isn't going to put you at any advantage. Learn how to take LS exams and write LS answers, that's far more important. Otherwise chill out and enjoy your freedom.


Unfortunately the bold is not always true. Many professors, and most all of mine, did in fact teach the law in a way that was decipherable, but some are known to teach very abstractly and then test on the black letter law. In those situations, get an old student's (that did well in the class) outline. Those are going to be far more helpful than any hornbook or E&E because the professor will have covered, generally, the same topics from year to year.

Having said that, don't read that kind of stuff before you are in law school or before you are at least most of the way through your class, it is a waste of time that early on.


This is why all 1Ls need to read past exams and work through them.


For sure. If your professor doesn't have many past exams, get a feel for the type of exam he gives and then work through some other ones. Going through past exams was the most beneficial part of my studying, IMO.

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Borhas
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Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby Borhas » Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:33 am

^ the one tip that doesn't require the "do what works for you caveat"

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Grizz
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Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby Grizz » Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:35 am

Borhas wrote:^ the one tip that doesn't require the "do what works for you caveat"


Pretty much.

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Dany
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Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby Dany » Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:37 am

D-hops wrote: In those situations, get an old student's (that did well in the class) outline. Those are going to be far more helpful than any hornbook or E&E because the professor will have covered, generally, the same topics from year to year.

What's the best way to go about getting those? Can you just flat out ask a 2L/3L for their old outlines?

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D-hops
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Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby D-hops » Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:39 am

Dany wrote:
D-hops wrote: In those situations, get an old student's (that did well in the class) outline. Those are going to be far more helpful than any hornbook or E&E because the professor will have covered, generally, the same topics from year to year.

What's the best way to go about getting those? Can you just flat out ask a 2L/3L for their old outlines?


Ask your TA for one, make friends with 2Ls and 3Ls, make friends with a 1L who is friends with a 2L/3L, ask someone in a student group that you have joined, or use Outline Depot.

ETA: Yeah, most 2L/3Ls will be fine with giving you their old outlines, at least in my experience.

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Dany
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Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby Dany » Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:41 am

D-hops wrote:
Dany wrote:
D-hops wrote: In those situations, get an old student's (that did well in the class) outline. Those are going to be far more helpful than any hornbook or E&E because the professor will have covered, generally, the same topics from year to year.

What's the best way to go about getting those? Can you just flat out ask a 2L/3L for their old outlines?

Ask your TA for one, make friends with 2Ls and 3Ls, make friends with a 1L who is friends with a 2L/3L, ask someone in a student group that you have joined, or use Outline Depot.

ETA: Yeah, most 2L/3Ls will be fine with giving you their old outlines, at least in my experience.

Thanks!

forty-two
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Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby forty-two » Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:46 am

Dany wrote:
D-hops wrote: In those situations, get an old student's (that did well in the class) outline. Those are going to be far more helpful than any hornbook or E&E because the professor will have covered, generally, the same topics from year to year.

What's the best way to go about getting those? Can you just flat out ask a 2L/3L for their old outlines?


Yep, every 2L or 3L I asked gave me their outline, any old outlines they thought were useful, and sometimes flow charts and check lists...it's like they can't wait to give this stuff away. Also, join at least one student group. The one I joined this past year had an outline bank, very helpful 2Ls and 3Ls, and they even had profs discuss exactly what they look for on exams. Also, 1Ls tend to share any really good outlines they stumble across too.

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Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby Grizz » Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:53 am

Counterpoint. My best semester (2nd), I didn't use anyone else's outlines; I got some outlines from 2Ls and didn't use them. I tried going over exams with people in my class, but it was stressful and mainly useless. I used the con law supplement and hated Glannon's Civ Pro. I made my own outlines. I was a lone wolf.

Do what works for you.




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