What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

(Study Tips, Dealing With Stress, Maintaining a Social Life, Financial Aid, Internships, Bar Exam, Careers in Law . . . )
User avatar
DocHawkeye
Posts: 640
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:22 am

Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby DocHawkeye » Thu May 12, 2011 6:34 pm

Lawst wrote:So, uh, am I supposed to know how to make an outline on Day 1? I realize that this may sound like a really stupid question, but if you asked me now to make an outline it would pretty much be:

This is my outline
- Blah, blah, blah - outline!
- Look at this magnificent bastard of an outline
- Ooh! Cheetos!

Outline strategies are great, but do I need to start looking up outlines on google to see what I'm supposed to be doing or does someone actually teach you? I've been out of UG for a while and I never made an outline there so I'm a bit lost.


I'm pretty sure I learned how to outline in 4th grade and those skills got me through a Ph.D. so I can't imagine that they'd be too different for LS.

User avatar
beachbum
Posts: 2766
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:35 pm

Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby beachbum » Thu May 12, 2011 7:06 pm

TJISMYHERO wrote:
beachbum wrote:
Knock wrote:You guys need to learn the not so subtle art of disguising your tags by thanking the posters who contributed.


+1, and I'm certainly guilty of this. I dunno why, but it bugs the crap outta me when someone just posts "tag." If you're gonna add to the clutter, at least have the decency/awareness to thank those who are contributing. Hell, you can just quote someone else who posted a thank-you.


You're right, we really need to make a concentrated effort to reduce the number of superfluous posts on TLS. From now on, in order to make every post meaningful, everyone must thank those whose posts are meaningful in order to tag threads.

/discussion on tagging

P.S. if you agree you should thank me for my contribution rather than saying "+1"


Ha. I think you misunderstand what I'm getting at, which is really just a nod towards common courtesy. If you're gonna make a post for the sole reason of following a thread for the advice/information it provides, at least use that post to thank those who are providing said advice/information. HTH.

d34d9823
Posts: 1915
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:52 pm

Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby d34d9823 » Thu May 12, 2011 7:53 pm

Nightrunner wrote:I just deleted 25 useless "tag" posts, including a few that were so clearly off-topic (yeah, SF, I'm looking at you) that they might merit bans or warnings in more srs bsns sorts of moderators . If you aren't going to say "thanks," then don't bother tagging, and learn how to use bookmarks. In short:

beachbum wrote:If you're gonna make a post for the sole reason of following a thread for the advice/information it provides, at least use that post to thank those who are providing said advice/information. HTH.

Thank you for the useful info, NR!

User avatar
whirledpeas86
Posts: 1393
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:07 pm

Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby whirledpeas86 » Fri May 13, 2011 10:14 am

d34dluk3 wrote:
Nightrunner wrote:I just deleted 25 useless "tag" posts, including a few that were so clearly off-topic (yeah, SF, I'm looking at you) that they might merit bans or warnings in more srs bsns sorts of moderators . If you aren't going to say "thanks," then don't bother tagging, and learn how to use bookmarks. In short:

beachbum wrote:If you're gonna make a post for the sole reason of following a thread for the advice/information it provides, at least use that post to thank those who are providing said advice/information. HTH.

Thank you for the useful info, NR!


Thanks for thanking NR, Luke!

gjr8891
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu May 05, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby gjr8891 » Fri May 13, 2011 11:08 am

Journeybound wrote:1. Read 1L by Scott Turrow. It will scare you to death and get you prepared to put those insane hours in each week.

2. Make a plan on how you will study and make outlines. I read "Law School Confidential" and used that as my bible. You have to know what's coming. (I placed top 3%, 1L). Stick to that plan.

3. Read "Getting to Maybe," so that you know how to get the most points out of an exam.

4. By the middle of the first semester, start reading/taking practice exams. Become very familiar with sample answers so that you know how an exam should look.

5. Prepare for EVERY class, go to EVERY class, and turn off the internet and pay attention/take notes in EVERY class. You should have a maximum 2 or so hours of free time a day for meals, exercise, TV (although I had a wife to make this happen). The rest of the day should be filled with briefing, outlining, going to class, practice exams. NO REGRETS. You never want to ask: what would have happened if I had spent that Saturday studying?

-As you can tell, I had no out-of-school social life during my 1L. But I bonded with my classmates while at school/in the library. I loved it, and I have no regrets.


I am a married 0L looking for some solid advise and I definitely feel like this is good stuff. I like your "no regrets" outlook and I hope to have as much success as you. Placing top 3%, 1L is incredible.

User avatar
kalvano
Posts: 11728
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 2:24 am

Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby kalvano » Fri May 13, 2011 12:50 pm

gjr8891 wrote:
Journeybound wrote:1. Read 1L by Scott Turrow. It will scare you to death and get you prepared to put those insane hours in each week.

2. Make a plan on how you will study and make outlines. I read "Law School Confidential" and used that as my bible. You have to know what's coming. (I placed top 3%, 1L). Stick to that plan.

3. Read "Getting to Maybe," so that you know how to get the most points out of an exam.

4. By the middle of the first semester, start reading/taking practice exams. Become very familiar with sample answers so that you know how an exam should look.

5. Prepare for EVERY class, go to EVERY class, and turn off the internet and pay attention/take notes in EVERY class. You should have a maximum 2 or so hours of free time a day for meals, exercise, TV (although I had a wife to make this happen). The rest of the day should be filled with briefing, outlining, going to class, practice exams. NO REGRETS. You never want to ask: what would have happened if I had spent that Saturday studying?

-As you can tell, I had no out-of-school social life during my 1L. But I bonded with my classmates while at school/in the library. I loved it, and I have no regrets.


I am a married 0L looking for some solid advise and I definitely feel like this is good stuff. I like your "no regrets" outlook and I hope to have as much success as you. Placing top 3%, 1L is incredible.



It is not solid advice. I would heavily advise you to NOT do any of that.

User avatar
mbusch22
Posts: 255
Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2010 1:08 pm

Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby mbusch22 » Fri May 13, 2011 12:58 pm

kalvano wrote:
gjr8891 wrote:
Journeybound wrote:1. Read 1L by Scott Turrow. It will scare you to death and get you prepared to put those insane hours in each week.

2. Make a plan on how you will study and make outlines. I read "Law School Confidential" and used that as my bible. You have to know what's coming. (I placed top 3%, 1L). Stick to that plan.

3. Read "Getting to Maybe," so that you know how to get the most points out of an exam.

4. By the middle of the first semester, start reading/taking practice exams. Become very familiar with sample answers so that you know how an exam should look.

5. Prepare for EVERY class, go to EVERY class, and turn off the internet and pay attention/take notes in EVERY class. You should have a maximum 2 or so hours of free time a day for meals, exercise, TV (although I had a wife to make this happen). The rest of the day should be filled with briefing, outlining, going to class, practice exams. NO REGRETS. You never want to ask: what would have happened if I had spent that Saturday studying?

-As you can tell, I had no out-of-school social life during my 1L. But I bonded with my classmates while at school/in the library. I loved it, and I have no regrets.


I am a married 0L looking for some solid advise and I definitely feel like this is good stuff. I like your "no regrets" outlook and I hope to have as much success as you. Placing top 3%, 1L is incredible.



It is not solid advice. I would heavily advise you to NOT do any of that.


I did most of this and it reeeally paid off (at least last semester it did). However, I did not brief cases.

To each his own, though.

User avatar
BruceWayne
Posts: 2032
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:36 pm

Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby BruceWayne » Fri May 13, 2011 1:08 pm

mbusch22 wrote:I did most of this and it reeeally paid off (at least last semester it did). However, I did not brief cases.

To each his own, though.


As did most (if not all) of those at my top 10 who are in the top of the class. It may not be what most want to hear but it seems to be the main approach to doing well.

User avatar
kalvano
Posts: 11728
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 2:24 am

Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby kalvano » Fri May 13, 2011 2:32 pm

mbusch22 wrote:
kalvano wrote:
gjr8891 wrote:
Journeybound wrote:1. Read 1L by Scott Turrow. It will scare you to death and get you prepared to put those insane hours in each week.

2. Make a plan on how you will study and make outlines. I read "Law School Confidential" and used that as my bible. You have to know what's coming. (I placed top 3%, 1L). Stick to that plan.

3. Read "Getting to Maybe," so that you know how to get the most points out of an exam.

4. By the middle of the first semester, start reading/taking practice exams. Become very familiar with sample answers so that you know how an exam should look.

5. Prepare for EVERY class, go to EVERY class, and turn off the internet and pay attention/take notes in EVERY class. You should have a maximum 2 or so hours of free time a day for meals, exercise, TV (although I had a wife to make this happen). The rest of the day should be filled with briefing, outlining, going to class, practice exams. NO REGRETS. You never want to ask: what would have happened if I had spent that Saturday studying?

-As you can tell, I had no out-of-school social life during my 1L. But I bonded with my classmates while at school/in the library. I loved it, and I have no regrets.


I am a married 0L looking for some solid advise and I definitely feel like this is good stuff. I like your "no regrets" outlook and I hope to have as much success as you. Placing top 3%, 1L is incredible.



It is not solid advice. I would heavily advise you to NOT do any of that.


I did most of this and it reeeally paid off (at least last semester it did). However, I did not brief cases.

To each his own, though.



I'm focusing on #'s 1 and 5, mostly.

NarwhalPunter
Posts: 86
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2011 3:14 pm

Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby NarwhalPunter » Fri May 13, 2011 2:42 pm

Getting to Maybe is a little painful to read, but immensely helpful. There were several people in my section first semester who knew BLL much better than I did, but they got smoked on exams because they were too focused on determining the "right" answer instead of using the forks approach. This book probably elevated me from a top 15-20% student to a top 3% student first semester.

On the other hand, I thought PLSII was nothing but redundant and self-aggrandizing garbage. Some find it helpful. I hated it.

Reading E&E's in advance is always super controversial on this site for some reason. Those who most vehemently advise against are also almost always people who did not actually do it. I did it, and although it helped, I don't think it was worth the time investment. But I certainly wouldn't discourage anyone from trying it.

Berry
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:31 pm

Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby Berry » Fri May 13, 2011 2:58 pm

I understand this is a small issue within the context of more important stuff like study habits/methods, but someone on page one said "network before law school"-- what opportunities exactly would a 0L have to do this, if you aren't already connected? E-mailing UG/your future law school alumni at firms before you even get to law school to ask for advice seems a little awkward, no? How would one even phrase such a message? Or is this what people actually do?

User avatar
Borhas
Posts: 4862
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2009 6:09 pm

Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby Borhas » Fri May 13, 2011 4:47 pm

Berry wrote:I understand this is a small issue within the context of more important stuff like study habits/methods, but someone on page one said "network before law school"-- what opportunities exactly would a 0L have to do this, if you aren't already connected? E-mailing UG/your future law school alumni at firms before you even get to law school to ask for advice seems a little awkward, no? How would one even phrase such a message? Or is this what people actually do?


networking is a very nebulous concept

more or less it means establish social and professional relationships with people who 1) could hire you or 2) are close with those than can or 3) credible source of advice. It's really no big secret, it's basically being social, only w/ different criteria.

How you go about doing that can be an issue, there are awkward and less awkward way, the least awkward is to already know people through random life experiences/connections. The method you mention is probably fairly awkward, but it's also fairly low risk and high volume, so it has benefits... And yes people do that, send an email to someone who would have a reason to give a shit (alumni of your UG who happen to be alumni of your LS would be a good start), offer to buy them lunch or coffee... people love to talk about themselves so a lot of folks won't mind at all.

User avatar
beach_terror
Posts: 7256
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:01 pm

Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby beach_terror » Sat May 14, 2011 12:22 am

1. Don't gun from day one, start gunning about a month from exams
2. Make your own outlines
3. Find a group of like-minded 1Ls to do practice tests and discuss them. If they're really like-minded in terms of work ethic/doing well, you'll get into arguments about the outcome on fact patterns and it'll help you to argue both sides and stop tunnel visioning to avoid facts that hurt you
4. Learn to type over 70wpm
5. After you get your first set of exams back, meet with EVERY professor. Figure out what you did wrong and regroup. Fix it next semester.

User avatar
ktg808
Posts: 292
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:07 pm

Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby ktg808 » Sun May 15, 2011 4:07 am

beach_terror wrote:1. Don't gun from day one, start gunning about a month from exams
2. Make your own outlines
3. Find a group of like-minded 1Ls to do practice tests and discuss them. If they're really like-minded in terms of work ethic/doing well, you'll get into arguments about the outcome on fact patterns and it'll help you to argue both sides and stop tunnel visioning to avoid facts that hurt you
4. Learn to type over 70wpm
5. After you get your first set of exams back, meet with EVERY professor. Figure out what you did wrong and regroup. Fix it next semester.


Love the 'tar.

User avatar
mths
Posts: 1098
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2010 11:24 am

Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby mths » Sun May 15, 2011 4:23 am

Nightrunner wrote:I just deleted 25 useless "tag" posts, including a few that were so clearly off-topic (yeah, SF, I'm looking at you) that they might merit bans or warnings in more srs bsns sorts of moderators . If you aren't going to say "thanks," then don't bother tagging, and learn how to use bookmarks. In short:

beachbum wrote:If you're gonna make a post for the sole reason of following a thread for the advice/information it provides, at least use that post to thank those who are providing said advice/information. HTH.

the power has really gone to your head bro

itimgtd
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:35 pm

Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby itimgtd » Sun May 15, 2011 5:46 am

thanks for the advice guys.

Curry

Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby Curry » Sun May 15, 2011 6:17 am

mths wrote:
Nightrunner wrote:I just deleted 25 useless "tag" posts, including a few that were so clearly off-topic (yeah, SF, I'm looking at you) that they might merit bans or warnings in more srs bsns sorts of moderators . If you aren't going to say "thanks," then don't bother tagging, and learn how to use bookmarks. In short:

beachbum wrote:If you're gonna make a post for the sole reason of following a thread for the advice/information it provides, at least use that post to thank those who are providing said advice/information. HTH.

the power has really gone to your head bro

He's a power whore. Fuck you NR, fuck you.

love you bro

User avatar
TTH
Posts: 10384
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 1:14 am

Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby TTH » Sun May 15, 2011 11:01 am

1. Don't do any 0L Prep

2. Start researching potential employers now and drafting employer-specific paragraphs to drop into your 1L cover letters.

3. Figure out which student orgs have good outline banks. Join them.

4. Wait until October to read GTM.

5. Brief for the first month to learn how to read cases, then stop.

User avatar
leobowski
Posts: 511
Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:11 am

Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby leobowski » Sun May 15, 2011 2:38 pm

1) Chill the fuck out
2) Read the E&Es, don't brief cases
3) Make your own outlines and do practice questions
4) Drink beer, play xbox and get laid.
5) Chill the fuck out

User avatar
Veyron
Posts: 3598
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 3:50 am

Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby Veyron » Sun May 15, 2011 2:43 pm

then next thing you know its January and you've missed the bus.


Ummm, no, most employers in my experience weren't making decisions till Mar.

aliarrow
Posts: 886
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:08 pm

Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby aliarrow » Sun May 15, 2011 2:55 pm

I'm just going to ask this question here since I don't like starting new threads for what seem like questions with obvious answers:

How many judges is it typical to apply to? I'm just nervous about applying to too many since it's considered bad taste to decline an offer from a judge. Does this mean you can still apply to many, however send 'withdrawals of applications' if you receive an offer from one?

User avatar
beach_terror
Posts: 7256
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:01 pm

Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby beach_terror » Sun May 15, 2011 3:11 pm

aliarrow wrote:I'm just going to ask this question here since I don't like starting new threads for what seem like questions with obvious answers:

How many judges is it typical to apply to? I'm just nervous about applying to too many since it's considered bad taste to decline an offer from a judge. Does this mean you can still apply to many, however send 'withdrawals of applications' if you receive an offer from one?

They don't give you an offer without interviewing you first. So apply to as many as you want. 50-100 is the norm I've heard on here.

User avatar
kalvano
Posts: 11728
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 2:24 am

Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby kalvano » Sun May 15, 2011 3:15 pm

aliarrow wrote:I'm just going to ask this question here since I don't like starting new threads for what seem like questions with obvious answers:

How many judges is it typical to apply to? I'm just nervous about applying to too many since it's considered bad taste to decline an offer from a judge. Does this mean you can still apply to many, however send 'withdrawals of applications' if you receive an offer from one?



I applied to all that were available. Once I got an offer, I simply told any judge that called me afterwards that I had already been accepted by another judge. I got 2 or 3 phones calls like that, and all the judges were very gracious and congratulatory. I think the "bad taste to decline" comes in if you are holding out for something better or have to real reason to decline, you just don't want to work for that judge.

keg411
Posts: 5935
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:10 pm

Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby keg411 » Sun May 15, 2011 3:22 pm

aliarrow wrote:I'm just going to ask this question here since I don't like starting new threads for what seem like questions with obvious answers:

How many judges is it typical to apply to? I'm just nervous about applying to too many since it's considered bad taste to decline an offer from a judge. Does this mean you can still apply to many, however send 'withdrawals of applications' if you receive an offer from one?


I applied to about 80 (mix of state trial, federal district and state supreme). Applied to federal district and state trial without grades at the end of December and state supreme after grades. Accepted state supreme in very early February. I sent withdrawal e-mails to the other judges I interviewed with or had scheduled interviews with. When I got other calls, I just politely declined. I probably got about 20 total interview requests from my mailings (5 from SSC, 1 from fed district - received this interview after a grade request, the rest from state trial). I go to a T2 in my home state and only applied in that state.

User avatar
frank galvin
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:44 pm

Re: What are the top 5 tips you would give an incoming 1L?`

Postby frank galvin » Sun May 15, 2011 4:00 pm

1. Exercise - very important in managing stress and staying healthy. Getting sick during exam season can ruin an entire semester / year's worth of work.

2. Examanship - the name of the game in law school is scoring high on exams. I recommend doing LEEWS and definitely GTM. They are not perfect but give you a sound footing. Once you understand what exams are about you need to do your due diligence and investigate how your individual professors grade. Some will award points for borderline ridiculous arguments, others will require you to be very concise and on point. Finding this out requires reviewing old exams and talking to past students as well as attending office hours. As a 1L you need to take many practice exams.

3. Outlining - create multiple outlines as the class proceeds. I found doing a large outline and then multiple smaller ones was good. You then need to outline the outline to reduce it to a series of triggers you can use on exams.

4. Be cooperative with other students. You can be competitive but A's are never earned on hording information. The law is available to everyone. You are much better suited if you establish good relationships with other students than if you burn bridges over mundane and stupid stuff. Having said that, formal study groups are a bad idea - create a number of smaller relationships, but do not commit yourself to large groups.

5. Be organized. Time flies and exams creep up fast. Also you will have to be ready to submit summer application prior to your mid-term exams. This requires keeping an updated resume and working on cover letters in your spare time. Also, substantial time needs to be spent developing connections. For a lot of us, the our opportunities will follow the cliche -- its not what you know, but who you know.




Return to “Forum for Law School Students”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: thisyearsgirl, Yahoo [Bot] and 2 guests