Must men wear watches in the legal profession?

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alumniguy
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Re: Must men wear watches in the legal profession?

Postby alumniguy » Fri May 06, 2011 10:23 am

Do you people know how lawyers use their bb's these days? It is painfully obvious that most of you don't. Everyone has their bb on them at all times. Period. Everyone looks at their bb constantly - even in meetings.

Here is how "meetings" occur in biglaw (at least from a junior's prospective). The lawyers get together in the partner's office (usually at the side table that every partner has in his/her office) or in a conference room. Everyone brings their deal documents, notepads, pen, and bb. Everyone puts all of these items on their lap or on the table. You're bb is going to be SITTING ON THE TABLE IN FRONT OF YOU. If you need to know the time, you click ANY BUTTON and the screen illuminates and BAM - you know the time. But, as a junior, you have no need to be checking the time in any meeting. You are expected to be there for the entire meeting. If you potentially have a conflict, you will notify the seniors/partner that you have X commitment that starts at X time. If that is the case, then you can easily check your bb for the time and everyone will know that you are checking your bb because of time.

If you have a partner who would be offended by you checking your time on a bb, then that partner would be just as offended by you "casually" checking your watch.

Again, there is a HUGE difference between reading emails and checking time on a bb. I have yet to meet anyone who has commented on the fact that my checking time on my blackberry was rude or offensive.

I am a third year associate who has never worn a watch to work and seem to have managed to be just fine.

Kochel
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Re: Must men wear watches in the legal profession?

Postby Kochel » Fri May 06, 2011 10:36 am

alumniguy wrote:Do you people know how lawyers use their bb's these days? It is painfully obvious that most of you don't. Everyone has their bb on them at all times. Period. Everyone looks at their bb constantly - even in meetings.

Here is how "meetings" occur in biglaw (at least from a junior's prospective). The lawyers get together in the partner's office (usually at the side table that every partner has in his/her office) or in a conference room. Everyone brings their deal documents, notepads, pen, and bb. Everyone puts all of these items on their lap or on the table. You're bb is going to be SITTING ON THE TABLE IN FRONT OF YOU. If you need to know the time, you click ANY BUTTON and the screen illuminates and BAM - you know the time. But, as a junior, you have no need to be checking the time in any meeting. You are expected to be there for the entire meeting. If you potentially have a conflict, you will notify the seniors/partner that you have X commitment that starts at X time. If that is the case, then you can easily check your bb for the time and everyone will know that you are checking your bb because of time.

If you have a partner who would be offended by you checking your time on a bb, then that partner would be just as offended by you "casually" checking your watch.

Again, there is a HUGE difference between reading emails and checking time on a bb. I have yet to meet anyone who has commented on the fact that my checking time on my blackberry was rude or offensive.

I am a third year associate who has never worn a watch to work and seem to have managed to be just fine.


The above seems right for meetings in the firm. But it doesn't apply to meetings with clients.

Of course, most associates don't have many in-person meetings with clients.

whymeohgodno
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Re: Must men wear watches in the legal profession?

Postby whymeohgodno » Fri May 06, 2011 10:50 am

alumniguy wrote:Do you people know how lawyers use their bb's these days? It is painfully obvious that most of you don't. Everyone has their bb on them at all times. Period. Everyone looks at their bb constantly - even in meetings.

Here is how "meetings" occur in biglaw (at least from a junior's prospective). The lawyers get together in the partner's office (usually at the side table that every partner has in his/her office) or in a conference room. Everyone brings their deal documents, notepads, pen, and bb. Everyone puts all of these items on their lap or on the table. You're bb is going to be SITTING ON THE TABLE IN FRONT OF YOU. If you need to know the time, you click ANY BUTTON and the screen illuminates and BAM - you know the time. But, as a junior, you have no need to be checking the time in any meeting. You are expected to be there for the entire meeting. If you potentially have a conflict, you will notify the seniors/partner that you have X commitment that starts at X time. If that is the case, then you can easily check your bb for the time and everyone will know that you are checking your bb because of time.

If you have a partner who would be offended by you checking your time on a bb, then that partner would be just as offended by you "casually" checking your watch.

Again, there is a HUGE difference between reading emails and checking time on a bb. I have yet to meet anyone who has commented on the fact that my checking time on my blackberry was rude or offensive.

I am a third year associate who has never worn a watch to work and seem to have managed to be just fine.


An actual biglaw lawyer shoots down everyone who has been QQing about cell phones?

alumniguy
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Re: Must men wear watches in the legal profession?

Postby alumniguy » Fri May 06, 2011 10:51 am

Kochel wrote:The above seems right for meetings in the firm. But it doesn't apply to meetings with clients.

Of course, most associates don't have many in-person meetings with clients.


I haven't been on too many meetings with clients, so this is more of a question post. How does it typically happen with a client - at least from a senior associate perspective. I still imagine that most client meetings occur with the partner present, no? And even as a senior associate you will not be leaving until the partner decides to leave.

So perhaps partners need watches?

FWIW, when I did have client meetings, I was always there with a senior associate/partner. Again, as a junior I was there until the partner/client decided the meeting was over.

Kochel
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Re: Must men wear watches in the legal profession?

Postby Kochel » Fri May 06, 2011 11:29 am

alumniguy wrote:
Kochel wrote:The above seems right for meetings in the firm. But it doesn't apply to meetings with clients.

Of course, most associates don't have many in-person meetings with clients.


I haven't been on too many meetings with clients, so this is more of a question post. How does it typically happen with a client - at least from a senior associate perspective. I still imagine that most client meetings occur with the partner present, no? And even as a senior associate you will not be leaving until the partner decides to leave.

So perhaps partners need watches?

FWIW, when I did have client meetings, I was always there with a senior associate/partner. Again, as a junior I was there until the partner/client decided the meeting was over.


As a client, I meet pretty frequently with outside counsel. I honestly don't care, and wouldn't remember, if anyone--partner or associate--checks his watch. By the way, if an associate is present, there should be a good reason. Associates tagging along with partners to meetings, unless they have a speaking role (which they often do), is just a waste of my company's money.

I would, however, both notice and care if anyone took out his Blackberry for any reason, unless he told me he was just checking the time or it was relevant to the meeting. If my company is paying for you to be at the meeting, you don't want to give me the impression that you're looking at e-mails for another matter.

alumniguy
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Re: Must men wear watches in the legal profession?

Postby alumniguy » Fri May 06, 2011 11:48 am

Kochel wrote:As a client, I meet pretty frequently with outside counsel. I honestly don't care, and wouldn't remember, if anyone--partner or associate--checks his watch. By the way, if an associate is present, there should be a good reason. Associates tagging along with partners to meetings, unless they have a speaking role (which they often do), is just a waste of my company's money.

I would, however, both notice and care if anyone took out his Blackberry for any reason, unless he told me he was just checking the time or it was relevant to the meeting. If my company is paying for you to be at the meeting, you don't want to give me the impression that you're looking at e-mails for another matter.


This seems like how I imagine it would play out. I guess that as a partner/senior associate you would be well advised to attend meetings with a watch (or explicitly state up front that you use your bb as a watch) since you'll inevitably need to wind down/conclude discussions of certain topics given the need to be efficient in the meeting itself. I would imagine most partners just wear a watch to meetings to forgo the awkward conversation about using bb as a watch.

Regardless, most juniors don't make it to senior associate status or partner, so not sure that I would be worried about this as a 0L, 1L, 2L or a 3L.

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ResolutePear
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Re: Must men wear watches in the legal profession?

Postby ResolutePear » Fri May 06, 2011 12:48 pm

Marionberry wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:Image


If your law firm offices in the bat cave, then this is probably TCR.


If your law firm office isn't in the bat cave, you're doing it wrong.

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leobowski
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Re: Must men wear watches in the legal profession?

Postby leobowski » Fri May 06, 2011 3:13 pm

Regardless of private lawyers that are chained to their computer/blackberry, watches are an absolute necessity for govt. lawyers. I've never seen a judge that was OK with appearing lawyers being on their phone in court. There's a lower standard for POs, clerks, etc., but having your cellphone go off or come out of your pocket is bad news in many courtrooms. And if your schedule runs around the docket, you better damn well keep track of time constantly.

Some of us would rather drink poison then go into biglaw (despite having the stats for it). It's funny how pervasive the biglaw blinders are on the posters here.

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happy187
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Re: Must men wear watches in the legal profession?

Postby happy187 » Fri May 06, 2011 3:14 pm

I will be getting this watch as soon as I grad.

Image

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XxSpyKEx
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Re: Must men wear watches in the legal profession?

Postby XxSpyKEx » Sun May 08, 2011 2:33 pm

niederbomb wrote: Is it necessary to have a watch to complete the business suit look at OCI?


Yes. A fake mustache is also necessary to complete the business suit look at OCI.

Renzo
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Re: Must men wear watches in the legal profession?

Postby Renzo » Sun May 08, 2011 2:54 pm

XxSpyKEx wrote:
niederbomb wrote: Is it necessary to have a watch to complete the business suit look at OCI?


Yes. A fake mustache is also necessary to complete the business suit look at OCI.


Grow a real mustache, you beta.

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FantasticMrFox
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Re: Must men wear watches in the legal profession?

Postby FantasticMrFox » Sun May 08, 2011 4:23 pm

happy187 wrote:I will be getting this watch as soon as I grad.

Image

very clean (but please tell me those white strips aren't glow in the dark...)

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usuaggie
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Re: Must men wear watches in the legal profession?

Postby usuaggie » Sun May 08, 2011 4:45 pm

I have a rolex that belonged to my grandpa before he died. I used to play with it when I'd be sitting on his lap as a kid, and it means a lot to me. I never know if it is a bad idea to wear it because it is gold and silver, and I don't want to give the impression that i'm showing off. Most people assume it is fake too, I think, and wearing a fake rolex might be the only thing worse than wearing a real rolex when it is not the time to be flashy.

so what do you all think? should i wear it to interviews? or work?


edit: this is basically what it looks like. the face in this photo looks blue, but mine is black.

--ImageRemoved--

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gbpackerbacker
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Re: Must men wear watches in the legal profession?

Postby gbpackerbacker » Sun May 08, 2011 4:48 pm

usuaggie wrote:I have a rolex that belonged to my grandpa before he died. I used to play with it when I'd be sitting on his lap as a kid, and it means a lot to me. I never know if it is a bad idea to wear it because it is gold and silver, and I don't want to give the impression that i'm showing off. Most people assume it is fake too, I think, and wearing a fake rolex might be the only thing worse than wearing a real rolex when it is not the time to be flashy.

so what do you all think? should i wear it to interviews? or work?


I would never wear a rolex to an interview. The stigma attached to it, and to a young person owning one, is just too much.

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leobowski
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Re: Must men wear watches in the legal profession?

Postby leobowski » Sun May 08, 2011 5:15 pm

Wear it casually now and rock the shit out of it. Wear it to work when you are 40+ and/or make partner. Gold is generally a no-no for younger men, outside of wedding bands.

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usuaggie
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Re: Must men wear watches in the legal profession?

Postby usuaggie » Sun May 08, 2011 5:18 pm

leobowski wrote:Wear it casually now and rock the shit out of it. Wear it to work when you are 40+ and/or make partner. Gold is generally a no-no for younger men, outside of wedding bands.



i got a ceramic wedding band (getting married in 20 days) because i don't generally like gold. i do wear my watch on my right wrist too, and i think that makes it extra noticeable.

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ResolutePear
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Re: Must men wear watches in the legal profession?

Postby ResolutePear » Sun May 08, 2011 5:19 pm

gbpackerbacker wrote:
usuaggie wrote:I have a rolex that belonged to my grandpa before he died. I used to play with it when I'd be sitting on his lap as a kid, and it means a lot to me. I never know if it is a bad idea to wear it because it is gold and silver, and I don't want to give the impression that i'm showing off. Most people assume it is fake too, I think, and wearing a fake rolex might be the only thing worse than wearing a real rolex when it is not the time to be flashy.

so what do you all think? should i wear it to interviews? or work?


I would never wear a rolex to an interview. The stigma attached to it, and to a young person owning one, is just too much.


If you go to an interview with a suit, and the interviewer recognizes that Rolex(i.e. you didn't shove it into his face), then he will probably appreciate a vintage Rolex. But then again, I'm into watches so opinions may vary - I have not heard of stigma associated with young people and vintage rolexes.

On another note, you should take that to an authorized rolex watchmaker/jeweler and get it cleaned inside and out. If the professional is worth his weight, any notions of it being fake will quickly be settled. Don't try to clean it yourself, though - I've seen people ruin watches like that.

Fark-o-vision
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Re: Must men wear watches in the legal profession?

Postby Fark-o-vision » Sun May 08, 2011 5:22 pm

gbpackerbacker wrote:
usuaggie wrote:I have a rolex that belonged to my grandpa before he died. I used to play with it when I'd be sitting on his lap as a kid, and it means a lot to me. I never know if it is a bad idea to wear it because it is gold and silver, and I don't want to give the impression that i'm showing off. Most people assume it is fake too, I think, and wearing a fake rolex might be the only thing worse than wearing a real rolex when it is not the time to be flashy.

so what do you all think? should i wear it to interviews? or work?


I would never wear a rolex to an interview. The stigma attached to it, and to a young person owning one, is just too much.


What stigma is attached to a rolex? Or to a young person wearing one? Especially a watch that is so obviously an heirloom? Also, I've spent a fair amount of time around young professionals and I can tell you pretty definitively that there is no stigma against gold. There is certainly a preference for white gold, but it all depends on what you're wearing. A lot of the guys rock gold with earthy colored shirts, or brown suits.

Can't speak to OCI itself, however. I've never been to a professional level interview of any kind, and certainly not to a legal one, so I won't speak to that area.

I should also let you know my experience is largely in L.A., where shows like Mad Men have created a bit of a retro trend among the young. I've seen more vests with suits in the last couple years than I ever did before.

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usuaggie
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Re: Must men wear watches in the legal profession?

Postby usuaggie » Sun May 08, 2011 5:23 pm

ResolutePear wrote:
gbpackerbacker wrote:
usuaggie wrote:I have a rolex that belonged to my grandpa before he died. I used to play with it when I'd be sitting on his lap as a kid, and it means a lot to me. I never know if it is a bad idea to wear it because it is gold and silver, and I don't want to give the impression that i'm showing off. Most people assume it is fake too, I think, and wearing a fake rolex might be the only thing worse than wearing a real rolex when it is not the time to be flashy.

so what do you all think? should i wear it to interviews? or work?


I would never wear a rolex to an interview. The stigma attached to it, and to a young person owning one, is just too much.


If you go to an interview with a suit, and the interviewer recognizes that Rolex(i.e. you didn't shove it into his face), then he will probably appreciate a vintage Rolex. But then again, I'm into watches so opinions may vary - I have not heard of stigma associated with young people and vintage rolexes.

On another note, you should take that to an authorized rolex watchmaker/jeweler and get it cleaned inside and out. If the professional is worth his weight, any notions of it being fake will quickly be settled. Don't try to clean it yourself, though - I've seen people ruin watches like that.



it has a paint streak on the crystal and people assume i would not have a real rolex since i'm 22 and in school, but you can tell it's real by watching it. it's one of those cool motion wound ones with the sweeping second hand. I love it.

spaghetti day
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Re: Must men wear watches in the legal profession?

Postby spaghetti day » Sun May 08, 2011 5:57 pm

Guide to watches: http://www.chronocentric.com/watches/brands.shtml

If you have 15-20K to blow...
--ImageRemoved--

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nygrrrl
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Re: Must men wear watches in the legal profession?

Postby nygrrrl » Sun May 08, 2011 6:02 pm

usuaggie wrote:it has a paint streak on the crystal and people assume i would not have a real rolex since i'm 22 and in school, but you can tell it's real by watching it. it's one of those cool motion wound ones with the sweeping second hand. I love it.

I have the same watch, only all stainless with a midnight blue face. Also vintage, belonged to a relative of my husband's. I adore it (sweep second hand and all!). I've worn it for so long, I forget that it's kind of huge on me - hadn't thought about how people perceive it at school/work but so far no one's mentioned it; maybe it's less noticeable b/c there's no gold. (Also, GL w/the wedding!)

run26.2
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Re: Must men wear watches in the legal profession?

Postby run26.2 » Sun May 08, 2011 6:22 pm

gbpackerbacker wrote:
usuaggie wrote:I have a rolex that belonged to my grandpa before he died. I used to play with it when I'd be sitting on his lap as a kid, and it means a lot to me. I never know if it is a bad idea to wear it because it is gold and silver, and I don't want to give the impression that i'm showing off. Most people assume it is fake too, I think, and wearing a fake rolex might be the only thing worse than wearing a real rolex when it is not the time to be flashy.

so what do you all think? should i wear it to interviews? or work?


I would never wear a rolex to an interview. The stigma attached to it, and to a young person owning one, is just too much.

+1. No problem when you're on the job, though.

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kalvano
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Re: Must men wear watches in the legal profession?

Postby kalvano » Sun May 08, 2011 6:49 pm

If someone interviewing you is concerned about the watch you're wearing, then they will also notice that it's both real and likely an heirloom.

Wear it loud and proud.

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ResolutePear
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Re: Must men wear watches in the legal profession?

Postby ResolutePear » Sun May 08, 2011 6:53 pm

kalvano wrote:If someone interviewing you is concerned about the watch you're wearing, then they will also notice that it's both real and likely an heirloom.

Wear it loud and proud.


This. Like stated before, somebody who notices these things will definitely be into watches and would make for a nice conversation piece should it arise.

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Ty Webb
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Re: Must men wear watches in the legal profession?

Postby Ty Webb » Sun May 08, 2011 6:58 pm

alumniguy wrote:Do you people know how lawyers use their bb's these days? It is painfully obvious that most of you don't. Everyone has their bb on them at all times. Period. Everyone looks at their bb constantly - even in meetings.

Here is how "meetings" occur in biglaw (at least from a junior's prospective). The lawyers get together in the partner's office (usually at the side table that every partner has in his/her office) or in a conference room. Everyone brings their deal documents, notepads, pen, and bb. Everyone puts all of these items on their lap or on the table. You're bb is going to be SITTING ON THE TABLE IN FRONT OF YOU. If you need to know the time, you click ANY BUTTON and the screen illuminates and BAM - you know the time. But, as a junior, you have no need to be checking the time in any meeting. You are expected to be there for the entire meeting. If you potentially have a conflict, you will notify the seniors/partner that you have X commitment that starts at X time. If that is the case, then you can easily check your bb for the time and everyone will know that you are checking your bb because of time.

If you have a partner who would be offended by you checking your time on a bb, then that partner would be just as offended by you "casually" checking your watch.

Again, there is a HUGE difference between reading emails and checking time on a bb. I have yet to meet anyone who has commented on the fact that my checking time on my blackberry was rude or offensive.

I am a third year associate who has never worn a watch to work and seem to have managed to be just fine.



This post is funny because it assumes that any (partner)judgments as to the rudeness of checking your phone would be voiced to you. These are most certainly things that people would quietly or even subconsciously note and thus you'd have no way of knowing whether they had a reaction (good or bad).




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