The write-on thread

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Pretzel_Logic
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Re: The write-on thread

Postby Pretzel_Logic » Mon May 16, 2011 10:27 pm

Just got through "reading" the cases we were given...I've handwritten my bluebook corrections...I decided what position I'm taking on the issue...

...win? :( This isn't that hard, but coming right after finals while I'm working two jobs = FAILSAUCE

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swc65
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Re: The write-on thread

Postby swc65 » Mon May 16, 2011 10:27 pm

somewhatwayward wrote:i am in the middle of my writing competition now, and i'm freaking out. i thought i knew where i was going, but i'm doubting myself. i'm frustrated bc i have been working on this since friday, and i'm basically at square one. le sigh



At least you started it! Most people I have talked to have not even read the packet yet!! (including me)

jkay
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Re: The write-on thread

Postby jkay » Mon May 16, 2011 10:34 pm

I raise a beer to all of you. Good luck.


/2011-2012 TTT L. Rev. staff member.

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somewhatwayward
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Re: The write-on thread

Postby somewhatwayward » Mon May 16, 2011 10:36 pm

swc65 wrote:
somewhatwayward wrote:i am in the middle of my writing competition now, and i'm freaking out. i thought i knew where i was going, but i'm doubting myself. i'm frustrated bc i have been working on this since friday, and i'm basically at square one. le sigh



At least you started it! Most people I have talked to have not even read the packet yet!! (including me)


my plan to make up for my poor exam performance was to work really hard on the write-on from day one. unfortunately, i don't think i capitalized on my early start.

kaiser
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Re: The write-on thread

Postby kaiser » Mon May 16, 2011 10:44 pm

I wonder how much each section of the writing competition is worth. The memo is so subjective, so I almost feel like the citation editing portion is worth more. I sure hope so. I spent 2 days form the moment I woke up until night looking up the rules and guildelines for every word in every cite and found obscure tiny rules buried in the bluebook (and of course slyly written into the editing assignment) that I had no clue existed. Whereas my memo I feel is pretty crappy and barebones.

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kalvano
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Re: The write-on thread

Postby kalvano » Tue May 17, 2011 12:19 am

kaiser wrote:I wonder how much each section of the writing competition is worth. The memo is so subjective, so I almost feel like the citation editing portion is worth more. I sure hope so. I spent 2 days form the moment I woke up until night looking up the rules and guildelines for every word in every cite and found obscure tiny rules buried in the bluebook (and of course slyly written into the editing assignment) that I had no clue existed. Whereas my memo I feel is pretty crappy and barebones.


We had a writing, a Bluebooking, and an editing exercise. We were told each for 1/3, but that the BB and editing are what make or break you. Everyone writes about the same thing, and it's very subjective. They just want to make sure you are capable of writing.

I caught some ultra-sneaky-tricky stuff in the editing portion, so I know that's where ours will be won or lost.

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mikeytwoshoes
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Re: The write-on thread

Postby mikeytwoshoes » Tue May 17, 2011 12:45 pm

kaiser wrote:I wonder how much each section of the writing competition is worth. The memo is so subjective, so I almost feel like the citation editing portion is worth more. I sure hope so. I spent 2 days form the moment I woke up until night looking up the rules and guildelines for every word in every cite and found obscure tiny rules buried in the bluebook (and of course slyly written into the editing assignment) that I had no clue existed. Whereas my memo I feel is pretty crappy and barebones.

This does not bode well for your chances. :wink:

Also, everyone should severely scrutinize passive voice and awkward language. Make sure you KNOW what the passive voice is and how to identify it.

missinglink
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Re: The write-on thread

Postby missinglink » Tue May 17, 2011 12:56 pm

FireNextTime wrote:This is really weird. Hastings' competition materials total 9 pages. That's not a typo. 9 pages.

We get 12 days. No editing exercise.

Yeah. I was sitting here reading horror stories about the write-on competition, and I just couldn't imagine how it could be that bad. It really does seem school specific.

That said, I really should start. Hastings also limits the number of pure grade-ons and still requires a good faith effort. :|

My motivation right now is to get this over with so that I can enjoy some semblance of a break before starting work.

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Borhas
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Re: The write-on thread

Postby Borhas » Wed May 18, 2011 3:27 pm

missinglink wrote:
FireNextTime wrote: still requires a good faith effort. :|


"good faith" effort :lol:

unless you blew it second semester you should be a lock for the grade on, though I guess no one will know Spring grades before the competition is over, so even the straight A students may have incentive enough to put in a good faith effort

kaiser
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Re: The write-on thread

Postby kaiser » Wed May 18, 2011 3:30 pm

mikeytwoshoes wrote:
kaiser wrote:I wonder how much each section of the writing competition is worth. The memo is so subjective, so I almost feel like the citation editing portion is worth more. I sure hope so. I spent 2 days form the moment I woke up until night looking up the rules and guildelines for every word in every cite and found obscure tiny rules buried in the bluebook (and of course slyly written into the editing assignment) that I had no clue existed. Whereas my memo I feel is pretty crappy and barebones.

This does not bode well for your chances. :wink:

Also, everyone should severely scrutinize passive voice and awkward language. Make sure you KNOW what the passive voice is and how to identify it.


Haha damn it!!

I hear you about the passive voice. I used to ALWAYS write with too much passive voice, but my LRW instructor beat it out of me over the course of the past year.

goodolgil
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Re: The write-on thread

Postby goodolgil » Wed May 18, 2011 4:11 pm

I had trouble with not writing in passive voice in legal writing, mostly because so many sentences required writing about what a court held, and for some reason I would always state this passively. Ended up with a lot of sentences like this:

"If loss of customer goodwill is found, courts have found that this is an injury can amount to irreparable harm."

My professor laid into me for it, and I think I'm finally getting a bit better about it.

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traehekat
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Re: The write-on thread

Postby traehekat » Wed May 18, 2011 4:13 pm

kalvano wrote:
kaiser wrote:I wonder how much each section of the writing competition is worth. The memo is so subjective, so I almost feel like the citation editing portion is worth more. I sure hope so. I spent 2 days form the moment I woke up until night looking up the rules and guildelines for every word in every cite and found obscure tiny rules buried in the bluebook (and of course slyly written into the editing assignment) that I had no clue existed. Whereas my memo I feel is pretty crappy and barebones.


We had a writing, a Bluebooking, and an editing exercise. We were told each for 1/3, but that the BB and editing are what make or break you. Everyone writes about the same thing, and it's very subjective. They just want to make sure you are capable of writing.

I caught some ultra-sneaky-tricky stuff in the editing portion, so I know that's where ours will be won or lost.


I've spent a lot of time on the Bluebooking and editing, as well, basically for the same reasons. It's just an easy way to differentiate between applicants - either you caught that mistake or you didn't.

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Sogui
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Re: The write-on thread

Postby Sogui » Wed May 18, 2011 6:08 pm

When I started I missed the super-important page about grading criteria, I was operating on the faint hope that solid legal reasoning & argumentation would be enough to carry the day for a write-on. Hah. 2/4 of the grading categories are writing, grammar, and citation style. (maybe they are weighted differently? /pray)

Also: Fuck law review. I know you guys want the entries fast so you can bang away on the grading, but this one week limit after exams has a pretty disparate effect on the students involved. Some people will have plenty of time to give their entry a white-glove test on citations, sentence structure, passive voice, etc... while I feel like I've had 2 free moments to even read the material since I moved out last week. Would it have been so hard to give us an extra 3-5-7 days to give the busier folks some time to level the playing field? Apparently the flu will extend your deadline, but "I'M BUSY AS FUCK THIS WEEK" is just an unworkable situation. 10-12 days or something would have been perfect for those of us who were strained for time this week and had to move out last weekend.

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mikeytwoshoes
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Re: The write-on thread

Postby mikeytwoshoes » Wed May 18, 2011 6:22 pm

Sogui wrote:When I started I missed the super-important page about grading criteria, I was operating on the faint hope that solid legal reasoning & argumentation would be enough to carry the day for a write-on. Hah. 2/4 of the grading categories are writing, grammar, and citation style. (maybe they are weighted differently? /pray)

Also: Fuck law review. I know you guys want the entries fast so you can bang away on the grading, but this one week limit after exams has a pretty disparate effect on the students involved. Some people will have plenty of time to give their entry a white-glove test on citations, sentence structure, passive voice, etc... while I feel like I've had 2 free moments to even read the material since I moved out last week. Would it have been so hard to give us an extra 3-5-7 days to give the busier folks some time to level the playing field? Apparently the flu will extend your deadline, but "I'M BUSY AS FUCK THIS WEEK" is just an unworkable situation. 10-12 days or something would have been perfect for those of us who were strained for time this week and had to move out last weekend.

The point of a write-on competition is showing you can meet deadlines--even when they are inconvenient. Your editors chose the deadline so you can prove that you belong on Law Review.

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Borhas
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Re: The write-on thread

Postby Borhas » Wed May 18, 2011 7:39 pm

goodolgil wrote:I had trouble with not writing in passive voice in legal writing, mostly because so many sentences required writing about what a court held, and for some reason I would always state this passively. Ended up with a lot of sentences like this:

"If loss of customer goodwill is found, courts have found that this is an injury can amount to irreparable harm."

My professor laid into me for it, and I think I'm finally getting a bit better about it.


always good to ask yourself: "Who is doing the verb"

Who finds a loss of customer goodwill?

I used to think the passive/active stuff was all nonsense, but passive really is bad for communication... It can actually effect your analysis if you're not careful because passive sentences tend to hide the real subject... and even in cases where you don't know the actual subject, you want to make the sentence active so that you don't subliminally ignore details... example:

"He was shot"
Who shot?
An unknown person?
How do you know a person shot him, if you don't know who it was?

Writing actively kind of forces you to refine your descriptive prose.

BeenDidThat
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Re: The write-on thread

Postby BeenDidThat » Wed May 18, 2011 7:49 pm

Borhas wrote:
goodolgil wrote:I had trouble with not writing in passive voice in legal writing, mostly because so many sentences required writing about what a court held, and for some reason I would always state this passively. Ended up with a lot of sentences like this:

"If loss of customer goodwill is found, courts have found that this is an injury can amount to irreparable harm."

My professor laid into me for it, and I think I'm finally getting a bit better about it.


always good to ask yourself: "Who is doing the verb"

Who finds a loss of customer goodwill?


The problem arises in this context less because of the subject, but because of what is being done. A court holding something really just means the court is saying what "IS" according to its judgment, and what therefore "IS" for those lower courts who look to the higher courts for the edges of given categories or for definitions of words.

I also have this problem when it comes to the same situation.

I guess a better version would be..."Courts have found that injuries that can amount to irreparable harm include the loss of customer good will. " OR "Courts have found that the loss of customer good will may constitute an injury amounting to irreparable harm."

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Borhas
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Re: The write-on thread

Postby Borhas » Wed May 18, 2011 8:35 pm

You might be overthinking it a bit

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mikeytwoshoes
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Re: The write-on thread

Postby mikeytwoshoes » Wed May 18, 2011 9:19 pm

Borhas wrote:
goodolgil wrote:I had trouble with not writing in passive voice in legal writing, mostly because so many sentences required writing about what a court held, and for some reason I would always state this passively. Ended up with a lot of sentences like this:

"If loss of customer goodwill is found, courts have found that this is an injury can amount to irreparable harm."

My professor laid into me for it, and I think I'm finally getting a bit better about it.


always good to ask yourself: "Who is doing the verb"

Who finds a loss of customer goodwill?

I used to think the passive/active stuff was all nonsense, but passive really is bad for communication... It can actually effect your analysis if you're not careful because passive sentences tend to hide the real subject... and even in cases where you don't know the actual subject, you want to make the sentence active so that you don't subliminally ignore details... example:

"He was shot"
Who shot?
An unknown person?
How do you know a person shot him, if you don't know who it was?

Writing actively kind of forces you to refine your descriptive prose.

You can only ask that question if you have a transitive verb. Only transitive verbs can have active/passive voice, so it doesn't make sense to start with that question. To determine whether a verb appears in a transitive form, ask whether you can [verb] something/someone. If the answer is yes, then ask whether the subject performs the verb. This may seem silly for ordinary language, but in journal/law review work, you will come across instances where verbs appear passive, but are actually intransitive, and thus incapable of passive voice.

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Sogui
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Re: The write-on thread

Postby Sogui » Wed May 18, 2011 11:24 pm

mikeytwoshoes wrote:
Sogui wrote:When I started I missed the super-important page about grading criteria, I was operating on the faint hope that solid legal reasoning & argumentation would be enough to carry the day for a write-on. Hah. 2/4 of the grading categories are writing, grammar, and citation style. (maybe they are weighted differently? /pray)

Also: Fuck law review. I know you guys want the entries fast so you can bang away on the grading, but this one week limit after exams has a pretty disparate effect on the students involved. Some people will have plenty of time to give their entry a white-glove test on citations, sentence structure, passive voice, etc... while I feel like I've had 2 free moments to even read the material since I moved out last week. Would it have been so hard to give us an extra 3-5-7 days to give the busier folks some time to level the playing field? Apparently the flu will extend your deadline, but "I'M BUSY AS FUCK THIS WEEK" is just an unworkable situation. 10-12 days or something would have been perfect for those of us who were strained for time this week and had to move out last weekend.

The point of a write-on competition is showing you can meet deadlines--even when they are inconvenient. Your editors chose the deadline so you can prove that you belong on Law Review.


That may be true, but it's a hella inefficient way of doing it. I'm sure there will be more people who need to meet deadlines with the flu than people needing to meet deadlines while crossing the country or enjoying their once-a-decade vacation. While it will remove people who "can't meet deadlines", there's also a good chance anyone they accept can't meet tough deadlines but had the week off during the competition. If that were a legit goal they ought to make the competition last from the first to last 1L exams, not at a time where some people have a totally free week and others are having to move out, travel, move in, start a job, etc...

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mikeytwoshoes
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Re: The write-on thread

Postby mikeytwoshoes » Wed May 18, 2011 11:33 pm

Sogui wrote:
mikeytwoshoes wrote:
Sogui wrote:When I started I missed the super-important page about grading criteria, I was operating on the faint hope that solid legal reasoning & argumentation would be enough to carry the day for a write-on. Hah. 2/4 of the grading categories are writing, grammar, and citation style. (maybe they are weighted differently? /pray)

Also: Fuck law review. I know you guys want the entries fast so you can bang away on the grading, but this one week limit after exams has a pretty disparate effect on the students involved. Some people will have plenty of time to give their entry a white-glove test on citations, sentence structure, passive voice, etc... while I feel like I've had 2 free moments to even read the material since I moved out last week. Would it have been so hard to give us an extra 3-5-7 days to give the busier folks some time to level the playing field? Apparently the flu will extend your deadline, but "I'M BUSY AS FUCK THIS WEEK" is just an unworkable situation. 10-12 days or something would have been perfect for those of us who were strained for time this week and had to move out last weekend.

The point of a write-on competition is showing you can meet deadlines--even when they are inconvenient. Your editors chose the deadline so you can prove that you belong on Law Review.


That may be true, but it's a hella inefficient way of doing it. I'm sure there will be more people who need to meet deadlines with the flu than people needing to meet deadlines while crossing the country or enjoying their once-a-decade vacation. While it will remove people who "can't meet deadlines", there's also a good chance anyone they accept can't meet tough deadlines but had the week off during the competition. If that were a legit goal they ought to make the competition last from the first to last 1L exams, not at a time where some people have a totally free week and others are having to move out, travel, move in, start a job, etc...

I'm not defending your editors. We have until the 31st of May, so I'm just giving some rationale for it. The real reason is that the time frame is convenient for your editors, and they don't give a damn about you or your time constraints.

viking138
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Re: The write-on thread

Postby viking138 » Wed May 18, 2011 11:51 pm

Sogui wrote:
mikeytwoshoes wrote:
Sogui wrote:When I started I missed the super-important page about grading criteria, I was operating on the faint hope that solid legal reasoning & argumentation would be enough to carry the day for a write-on. Hah. 2/4 of the grading categories are writing, grammar, and citation style. (maybe they are weighted differently? /pray)

Also: Fuck law review. I know you guys want the entries fast so you can bang away on the grading, but this one week limit after exams has a pretty disparate effect on the students involved. Some people will have plenty of time to give their entry a white-glove test on citations, sentence structure, passive voice, etc... while I feel like I've had 2 free moments to even read the material since I moved out last week. Would it have been so hard to give us an extra 3-5-7 days to give the busier folks some time to level the playing field? Apparently the flu will extend your deadline, but "I'M BUSY AS FUCK THIS WEEK" is just an unworkable situation. 10-12 days or something would have been perfect for those of us who were strained for time this week and had to move out last weekend.

The point of a write-on competition is showing you can meet deadlines--even when they are inconvenient. Your editors chose the deadline so you can prove that you belong on Law Review.


That may be true, but it's a hella inefficient way of doing it. I'm sure there will be more people who need to meet deadlines with the flu than people needing to meet deadlines while crossing the country or enjoying their once-a-decade vacation. While it will remove people who "can't meet deadlines", there's also a good chance anyone they accept can't meet tough deadlines but had the week off during the competition. If that were a legit goal they ought to make the competition last from the first to last 1L exams, not at a time where some people have a totally free week and others are having to move out, travel, move in, start a job, etc...



CLS also had the wrong days on LawNet (our official website) for a really long time. I relied on those dates when planning post-exam plans which has made things a lot tougher since I thought we had a week off. Thanks, student services....

Although honestly I feel like if you spent two whole days solely concentrated on this you'd be ok.

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beach_terror
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Re: The write-on thread

Postby beach_terror » Thu May 19, 2011 12:47 am

Joining the thread, although I feel like this
Image

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TTH
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Re: The write-on thread

Postby TTH » Thu May 19, 2011 1:14 am

I just wanna say, fuck the 7th Circuit.

I love Chicago, but I will avoid trying to go there just so as not to have to read Posner's opinions on a day-to-day basis. I swear the man never says in 10 words what he can say in 50.

Easterbrook, too. Piss on 'em both.

FireNextTime
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Re: The write-on thread

Postby FireNextTime » Thu May 19, 2011 1:26 am

Dear Write-On:

Fuck off. I'm out. Enjoy my submission. Pick me or don't. Whatever.

Sincerely,

FinallyOffiicallyDoneWithOneL

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Cupidity
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Re: The write-on thread

Postby Cupidity » Thu May 19, 2011 9:52 am

32 hours, no sleep, work-product rapidly decreasing, 4 hours until deadline




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