Value of clinics?

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dusk2k2
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Value of clinics?

Postby dusk2k2 » Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:41 pm

I'm a rising 2L and we have course registration coming up. Clinics are fairly difficult for 2L's to get into (3L's who haven't had a clinic yet get priority in the lottery.) Some 2L's have told me that, if you want a clinic as a 2L, you need to rank the first 5 or 6 lottery bids as clinics, and even then its no guarantee.

My question is 1) is it worth it to take a clinic as a 2L? and 2) Is it manageable to do a clinic and a journal? What about trying to do a clinic, journal, and an outside internship? Or would it be better to just try to get an outside internship rather than a clinic?

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BarbellDreams
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Re: Value of clinics?

Postby BarbellDreams » Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:43 pm

I would jump on the opportunity to do a clinic. From what I have heard jobs rank that very highly since its real hands on experience. Journal + Internship + clinic may be a little tough, but I suggest you speak to whoever is running the clinic and see how many hours a week the commitment is. My clinic commitment is 3.5 hours a week out client work and a 2 hour once a week class. 5.5 hours a week doesn't seem too terrible to me, but if I get on a journal that may all change since I may already have a fall internship lined up too.

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worldtraveler
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Re: Value of clinics?

Postby worldtraveler » Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:26 pm

It is impossible to answer this without knowing more about the time commitment for clinics at your school and what you would actually be doing. I did one this semester and it was 15-20 hours of work per week.

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Blindmelon
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Re: Value of clinics?

Postby Blindmelon » Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:05 pm

Whatever you do, don't do LR + clinic. Worst. idea. ever.

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Dr. Van Nostrand
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Re: Value of clinics?

Postby Dr. Van Nostrand » Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:14 pm

I would certainly do a clinic early and often. I agree that time wise is dependent on the school, my school's clinic requires a lot of time per week, but then again it is also 7 credit hours for the semester. That said, I am also on a journal, so the clinic + journal is definitely manageable.

flexityflex86
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Re: Value of clinics?

Postby flexityflex86 » Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:18 pm

Love your user name, Doctor.

So clinics are not as valuable as any journal - even those other than law review?

If so, and journals are also more valuable than moot court, which is more valuable between clinics and moot court?

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Blindmelon
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Re: Value of clinics?

Postby Blindmelon » Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:14 pm

flexityflex86 wrote:Love your user name, Doctor.

So clinics are not as valuable as any journal - even those other than law review?

If so, and journals are also more valuable than moot court, which is more valuable between clinics and moot court?


Its not so cut and dry. LR trumps all, secondary is prob same as clinic/moot court. If you think you want to clerk at any point, then LR is a must unless you're at a top, top school or your grades are ridic, then a secondary might cut it.

If you do a secondary, then you can do a clinic with it. At most schools secondary journals are a ton less work.

cornellbeez
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Re: Value of clinics?

Postby cornellbeez » Tue Apr 19, 2011 1:37 am

It's valuable because it gives you hands-on experience. Plus at many schools it's mandatory pass/fail and you can take 2 fewer finals that semester. Although clinics require a lot of busy work, I think it's far less stressful than taking 2 4-unit doctrinal courses (like Securities Regulation and M&As, etc.) as a substitute. For the latter reason alone, I would recommend doing a clinic.

reverendt
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Re: Value of clinics?

Postby reverendt » Tue Apr 19, 2011 1:45 am

Do it 2L year.
I have friends who saved the clinic for 3L spring, and now have senioritis and are stuck billing all these clinic hours.
That said, I'd recommend a clinic at some point. Most law schools don't teach you anything about being a lawyer. Clinics do.

blueprint87
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Re: Value of clinics?

Postby blueprint87 » Tue Apr 19, 2011 1:50 am

Blindmelon wrote:Whatever you do, don't do LR + clinic. Worst. idea. ever.

Can you elaborate on this?

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Blindmelon
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Re: Value of clinics?

Postby Blindmelon » Tue Apr 19, 2011 8:53 am

blueprint87 wrote:
Blindmelon wrote:Whatever you do, don't do LR + clinic. Worst. idea. ever.

Can you elaborate on this?


G. T. L. Rev. wrote:
Blindmelon wrote:Whatever you do, don't do LR + clinic. Worst. idea. ever.

Meh. Not so bad as a 3L. I did this and really enjoyed it.


As a 2L, LR is a big burden given interviews, and that 2Ls do most of the grunt work. I'll be doing a clinic + LR as a 3L, its much more doable as GTL said.

I'd say this year, LR took up a good 70% of my time work-wise. Its pretty nutsy.

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vamedic03
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Re: Value of clinics?

Postby vamedic03 » Tue Apr 19, 2011 10:27 am

Blindmelon wrote:
blueprint87 wrote:
Blindmelon wrote:Whatever you do, don't do LR + clinic. Worst. idea. ever.

Can you elaborate on this?


G. T. L. Rev. wrote:
Blindmelon wrote:Whatever you do, don't do LR + clinic. Worst. idea. ever.

Meh. Not so bad as a 3L. I did this and really enjoyed it.


As a 2L, LR is a big burden given interviews, and that 2Ls do most of the grunt work. I'll be doing a clinic + LR as a 3L, its much more doable as GTL said.

I'd say this year, LR took up a good 70% of my time work-wise. Its pretty nutsy.


I think it really depends on the Law Review and the clinic.

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Dr. Van Nostrand
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Re: Value of clinics?

Postby Dr. Van Nostrand » Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:53 pm

Yeah a lot of the value in clinics come down to the particular school, like anything else some schools devote more resources, money, etc. to their clinical programs. By in large these will be better experiences because it will provide the students with more of a breadth of opportunities to pursue. I have enjoyed my experience thus far, a nice curve ball to the typical doctrinal fact finder IMO.

blsingindisguise
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Re: Value of clinics?

Postby blsingindisguise » Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:54 am

Blindmelon wrote:Whatever you do, don't do LR + clinic. Worst. idea. ever.


If this is too much for you you probably won't like law practice either.

Miniver
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Re: Value of clinics?

Postby Miniver » Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:46 am

I like how OP poses this question without saying what his goals are, and it's even better how everyone obliges with answers without questioning OP about his goals.

Hmmm, let's see. If you're interested in working in working in field X, it may be a good idea to take X clinic, don't you think? You will be learning more about the field and hopefully meeting attorneys who will be able to act as references or provide job connections. But if you're not interested in working in field X, then maybe there's not so much of a point, huh? Is this really that difficult?

stinger35
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Re: Value of clinics?

Postby stinger35 » Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:39 pm

Dr. Van Nostrand wrote:Yeah a lot of the value in clinics come down to the particular school, like anything else some schools devote more resources, money, etc. to their clinical programs. By in large these will be better experiences because it will provide the students with more of a breadth of opportunities to pursue. I have enjoyed my experience thus far, a nice curve ball to the typical doctrinal fact finder IMO.


What clinic are you from?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPxoUHRlx58#t=0m40s

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Dr. Van Nostrand
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Re: Value of clinics?

Postby Dr. Van Nostrand » Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:44 pm

stinger35 wrote:
Dr. Van Nostrand wrote:Yeah a lot of the value in clinics come down to the particular school, like anything else some schools devote more resources, money, etc. to their clinical programs. By in large these will be better experiences because it will provide the students with more of a breadth of opportunities to pursue. I have enjoyed my experience thus far, a nice curve ball to the typical doctrinal fact finder IMO.


What clinic are you from?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPxoUHRlx58#t=0m40s


hahaha - well played Stinger35, well played...

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Blindmelon
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Re: Value of clinics?

Postby Blindmelon » Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:22 pm

blsingindisguise wrote:
Blindmelon wrote:Whatever you do, don't do LR + clinic. Worst. idea. ever.


If this is too much for you you probably won't like law practice either.


0L alert.

blsingindisguise
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Re: Value of clinics?

Postby blsingindisguise » Thu Apr 21, 2011 10:31 pm

Blindmelon wrote:
blsingindisguise wrote:
Blindmelon wrote:Whatever you do, don't do LR + clinic. Worst. idea. ever.


If this is too much for you you probably won't like law practice either.


0L alert.


No, actually guy who did law review and clinic and has a job.

blsingindisguise
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Re: Value of clinics?

Postby blsingindisguise » Thu Apr 21, 2011 10:40 pm

To be fair, every law review is different and maybe the level of grunt work you got assigned was way more than what I got. I had boring, time-consuming cite checks every week but they were never to the point of serious interference with my other work.

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Blindmelon
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Re: Value of clinics?

Postby Blindmelon » Fri Apr 22, 2011 8:13 am

blsingindisguise wrote:
Blindmelon wrote:
blsingindisguise wrote:
Blindmelon wrote:Whatever you do, don't do LR + clinic. Worst. idea. ever.


If this is too much for you you probably won't like law practice either.


0L alert.


No, actually guy who did law review and clinic and has a job.


That just seems like needlessly working yourself to death. I don't see the point of doing both. I had some 70+ hour weeks on LR alone. I couldn't imagine having clients on top of that.

blsingindisguise
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Re: Value of clinics?

Postby blsingindisguise » Fri Apr 22, 2011 8:24 am

[quote="Blindmelon"]
That just seems like needlessly working yourself to death. I don't see the point of doing both. I had some 70+ hour weeks on LR alone. I couldn't imagine having clients on top of that.

Oh, damn. Did you have an e-board position or something? Couldn't imagine having a seventy hour week on mine.

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zeth006
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Re: Value of clinics?

Postby zeth006 » Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:21 pm

So on top of taking the usual BAR and chill courses, should I look into taking any pre-req courses for clinics during 2L? I'm planning to do journal, maybe do part-time somewhere, and front-load my classes. I'm told that clinics at Hastings can be roughly 12 units, with the other 3-4 units fillable through that one class you take for the semester.

If so, 2L's going to be pure hell. I'll deal with it if it means I have to go to class only twice a week during 3L and improve my job prospects.

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vamedic03
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Re: Value of clinics?

Postby vamedic03 » Fri Apr 22, 2011 4:10 pm

Blindmelon wrote:That just seems like needlessly working yourself to death. I don't see the point of doing both. I had some 70+ hour weeks on LR alone. I couldn't imagine having clients on top of that.


I gotta be honest, I don't understand how you're hitting 70+ hour weeks with LR. It sounds like the LR is simply engaging in busy work. Outside of a unique outlier experience, I can't think of anyone on managing board who has ever had to pull those sorts of hours.

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Blindmelon
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Re: Value of clinics?

Postby Blindmelon » Fri Apr 22, 2011 4:28 pm

vamedic03 wrote:
Blindmelon wrote:That just seems like needlessly working yourself to death. I don't see the point of doing both. I had some 70+ hour weeks on LR alone. I couldn't imagine having clients on top of that.


I gotta be honest, I don't understand how you're hitting 70+ hour weeks with LR. It sounds like the LR is simply engaging in busy work. Outside of a unique outlier experience, I can't think of anyone on managing board who has ever had to pull those sorts of hours.


It sucked, big time. Not all of my assignments were like that, but I hit 2 pretty ridic weeks. It probably varies a lot by school, but I know a few people here who got stupidly bad assignments.

Also, if you're at a top, top school you probably get better articles. At BU, we're stuck with taking whatever crap doesn't get eaten up by T14 journals. We sometimes take articles without FNs if they're from a top author, while other schools are probably more picky with works. Sigh. Try finding support for every proposition for the SC that you have to do in a week.




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