Deleted - thanks for your input

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catechism
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Deleted - thanks for your input

Postby catechism » Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:37 pm

(deleted)
Last edited by catechism on Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

barry
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Re: 1L at a T10 law school - should I drop out?

Postby barry » Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:43 pm

I don't know to be honest, just wanted to say i hate law/ legal field, and think law students are pretty miserable human beings, I'll stick it out at my T14 b/c i really don't have anything else to do with my life and will come out w/ no debt but if you have a decent past career and you hate law why go into more debt and endure LS?

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hokie
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Re: 1L at a T10 law school - should I drop out?

Postby hokie » Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:45 pm

If you don't want law, I say cut your losses. No point in accruing debt for a degree you don't even want to use.

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northwood
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Re: 1L at a T10 law school - should I drop out?

Postby northwood » Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:48 pm

if you are sure you dont want to do law- then leave. If its just you hate law school, then stick it out. Before you make the choice, make sure you really think it through. Take some time off and get away from it. Figure outwhat your game plan will be- and what your next move is. Then after you have that figure out- move on.

best of luck. only stick in law school if you want to be a lawyer

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Stonewall
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Re: 1L at a T10 law school - should I drop out?

Postby Stonewall » Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:49 pm

hokie wrote:If you don't want law, I say cut your losses. No point in accruing debt for a degree you don't even want to use.


this. Don't do it just to do it if your are not going to practice in the future

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bk1
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Re: 1L at a T10 law school - should I drop out?

Postby bk1 » Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:51 pm

You already know this but: work at your summer jobs, figure out if you still feel the same way, decide then.

If you feel the same way drop out. If you've changed your mind, stay in. You also don't have much time to figure out if you want to transfer, and I don't think any state school is going to actually be less debt compared to your $20k scholarship. Also, is that $200k factoring in interest accrued during school? Cause if not then the $260k that law school is costing you means that you need to seriously cut down on your living costs.

FiveSermon
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Re: 1L at a T10 law school - should I drop out?

Postby FiveSermon » Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:52 pm

There's almost no point to having a law degree if you don't want to be a lawyer. There's absolutely no excuse to go 200k into debt for it. Only exception may be if you go to HYS.

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northwood
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Re: 1L at a T10 law school - should I drop out?

Postby northwood » Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:54 pm

if op wants nothing to do with the law degree or the legal profession- then it is worthless.

op- work your summerjob, then decide.

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Attorney
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Re: 1L at a T10 law school - should I drop out?

Postby Attorney » Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:33 pm

catechism wrote: I have absolutely zero passion for the law (in fact, the whole rat race positively disgusts me), and I am very passionate about a few other things in my life.

Leave and don't look back. It is time to go.

I sort of agree that you should get through your summer employment to see if you like it, but... you won't like it. And you already know that you won't like it. Get on with your life, as soon as possible. As of now, you've only wasted about 7 months. Don't make it a year or two.

:!:

bleedcubbieblue
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Re: 1L at a T10 law school - should I drop out?

Postby bleedcubbieblue » Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:56 pm

Please leave so I can transfer in.

seriously????
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Re: 1L at a T10 law school - should I drop out?

Postby seriously???? » Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:04 pm

dude, wtf? if you weren't interested to begin with, why didn't you take a full ride somewhere else? no point transferring.
that's cool that you have some fallback options, but you either decide to take a biglaw gig for three years, live modestly and pay that mother off...find some rewarding PI gig that you want to do for 10 years...or leave

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GATORTIM
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Re: 1L at a T10 law school - should I drop out?

Postby GATORTIM » Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:18 pm

OP...I have pretty much the same thoughts regarding the material, the people (generally) and bleak career prospects in a field that I do not have tremendous passion for. I plan on transferring to the PT program and going back to work next year to avoid taking on anymore unnecessary debt and allowing me to pursue investment goals.

I would definitely give it the Summer and maybe you could transfer to a PT program that would allow you to pursue your other interests while chipping away at your degree. Having the JD subsequent to remaining in the workforce shouldn't hurt you and you will prevent any of the regret others have alluded to.

good luck

CanadianWolf
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Re: 1L at a T10 law school - should I drop out?

Postby CanadianWolf » Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:31 pm

You own a company but cannot work there because you have hired other (full-time long term managers) managers ???

What is a "full-time, long-term manager" ?

Are there employment contracts ?

Without more information this seems ridiculous.

catechism
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Re: 1L at a T10 law school - should I drop out?

Postby catechism » Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:49 pm

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beachbum
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Re: 1L at a T10 law school - should I drop out?

Postby beachbum » Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:56 pm

I don't know if you read your post, but the best choice sure seems painfully obvious to me.

catechism
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Re: 1L at a T10 law school - should I drop out?

Postby catechism » Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:05 pm

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Last edited by catechism on Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Borhas
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Re: 1L at a T10 law school - should I drop out?

Postby Borhas » Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:16 pm

work for the summer first, then drop out if you're still sure

any other decision at this point would be... well, stupid

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beachbum
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Re: 1L at a T10 law school - should I drop out?

Postby beachbum » Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:17 pm

catechism wrote:
beachbum wrote:I don't know if you read your post, but the best choice sure seems painfully obvious to me.


I have no doubt this seems like an obvious decision from the outside, but it's a different story to be caught up in the riptide. Plus, I have no real legal work experience whatsoever at this point. I owe it to myself to at least get a taste of it this summer.

If the decision was so easy, I honestly have a hard time understanding why anyone (public interest folk aside) stays in law school or practices law, besides power-hungry mongers who are in it for either the money or the prestige. Seriously, is anyone legitimately PASSIONATE, gives you goosebumps kind of passionate, about the law?


Yes, it seems like a very obvious decision from the outside. I'll just second bk's post: if your feelings haven't changed after your summer job, then it's time to bail. There is absolutely no reason to plunge yourself into that much debt knowing that a legal career is probably not for you. I don't know what else to tell you... just don't do it. It's a bad idea.

Of course, I haven't met many (any?) law students who are passionate about the law, or who are passionate about the material presented in law school, anyway. I assume for the majority of students, 1L year is just a test: a trial to be endured on the road to becoming a lawyer. But I'd say most of these students know (or assume) that they'll get some kind of fulfillment out of their future legal careers. You, on the other hand, don't. In fact, you've made it pretty clear that law is the opposite of what you should be doing, and that the practice of law will probably lead to a great deal of misery. And God knows we have enough miserable lawyers.

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gwuorbust
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Re: 1L at a T10 law school - should I drop out?

Postby gwuorbust » Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:37 pm

OP, I am a small business owner as well and, though being told better by BP, I plunged into LS nevertheless. I have many feelings as you do in regards to law school. However, I decided against dropping out and here's why:

First, I might want to work in a financial firm as general counsel. I also see many ways this degree could help me as a small business owner. I may end up working in law at graduation, I may not. But I want to keep my options open.

And second, I could see myself starting a legal practice in ~5 years. You say that you are not interested in the practice of the law. I'm not very interested either. What I am interested in the business of law. I expect to eventually generate plenty of free cash flows through one of my ventures(I'll keep trying till I make it or bust). I can invest this into anything, but I feel like I could invest it into starting a legal practices and I could probably make decent returns. Let's face it, most lawyers aren't business acumen. If they were they'd be at a Fortune 500, not billing away. That is why there are so many shiTTTy ads by lawyers. Poor business management. Only a lawyer can own a law firm, however, so there is that consideration.


That said, if you think you will never, ever want to be involved with the law then it might be time to bail. Because you are an entrepreneur I am sure you will think of something. Hell, move to the Valley and start networking around. If you have some business skills and dedication you can probably get latched onto a startup there.

Also, if you are unsure during the middle of the summer you could shoot of some applications to low cost part-time programs. Work part-time on what you want and don't gather much debt.

Ultimately it is difficult decision, one that most people in law school are not forced to make because they simply do not have viable alternatives. I had alternatives and I choose to stay. For you, the best solution might be to bail. It is something you need to consider deeply because regardless of how you chose it is going to be a life altering decision. Most of all, however, I would suggest not taking on 200k in debt if you are not going to practice law.

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LettuceBeefRealTea
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Re: 1L at a T10 law school - should I drop out?

Postby LettuceBeefRealTea » Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:15 am

why are you not deducting your tuition in your company's taxes?
i have no interest in practicing, but a law degree with economics/business background is a license to print money if you use it correctly. you have got to be a little creative. just focus on your securities, corporate, etc. classes and then do the minimum on everything else. or transfer into an entrepreneurial law LLM or something.

i think if you can get more money at an easier school then do that. it will give more cash and time to invest in your company. prestige doesn't matter if you are using your law degree for business. while i am a fan of cutting losses and sunk costs to do what you feel you need to do to succeed, it doesn't sound like you have something or a plan to cut to. you're 1/3 of the way done. pull your head together and figure it out.

chill out and get rational
decide what you want
make a plan to achieve those goals
execute
don't look back

PS also get your ass on the education tax deductions through your company. that's just straight stupid.

catechism
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Re: 1L at a T10 law school - should I drop out?

Postby catechism » Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:50 am

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Last edited by catechism on Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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wiseowl
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Re: 1L at a T10 law school - should I drop out?

Postby wiseowl » Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:58 am

Well, I'll put these things out there:

1.) You're at a good school. If you were at a lower-ranked school, I'd tell you to run.

2.) It's cliched, but law practice and law school aren't the same thing. I was burnt out and grumpy at the end of 1L too, but really enjoyed my summer jobs and came back refreshed and energized.

3.) 2L and 3L years when you can at least choose the bullshit you're buried under are interesting. Still a lot of reading and still many of the same people, but if you can craft a schedule in things you're interested in (perhaps for you, education law or entrepreneurial stuff) it makes things go by a whole lot faster.

LurkerNoMore
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Re: 1L at a T10 law school - should I drop out?

Postby LurkerNoMore » Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:33 am

Good things to think about, but you've written this post 4 mos too soon.

Practicing law and going to law school are two different things. Very often people who love practicing hate law school. What are you doing this summer? Is it a job you are excited about? If not, you might want to look into doing a split summer and picking up another position (even if it is unpaid) to give yourself a shot at seeing if this is something you would like to do.

If this isn't the right path, by all means cut your losses. You should, however, give yourself an opportunity to actually see if this is something you would enjoy. If you are a small business owner, you have a set of skills that will allow you to transition from the law some day if it turns out you like it "5 years much" but not "20 years much."

You already seem comfortable with the idea of leaving before the fall semester starts. That gives you a lot of freedom to take some risks in the next 4 mos. Try to take advantage of it.

keg411
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Re: 1L at a T10 law school - should I drop out?

Postby keg411 » Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:17 am

IMO, I think you're too focused on needing to be PASSIONATE about school. It's school. Just like work is work. It seems to me like you're chasing some sort of rainbow that you're never going to find in work/school/anything. I mean, I'm one of the few that likes law school, and I'm not even close to PASSION that you seem to be looking for.

However, if you really hate law school, and you hate whatever you do this summer, then drop out. I just think you're looking for some ideal that doesn't exist. Also, this should be another "WARNING TO LURKING 0L's" post.

CanadianWolf
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Re: 1L at a T10 law school - should I drop out?

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:05 am

OP: It is a bit bewildering that you can hire & pay others to run your company but cannot find a spot for yourself.

Now that you stipulate that you have hired only one manager--and not multiple managers as stated in your original post--it is becoming understandable especially if your business is a one location hot dog cart or other street vendor. I find your reluctance to share more information about the type of business odd since it only allows for advice based on pure speculation & conjecture.

P.S. Still not sure what constitutes "full-time, long-term managers".




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