Computers for Law School 2011

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slax
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Re: Computers for Law School 2011

Postby slax » Fri Apr 29, 2011 11:57 am

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Last edited by slax on Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

random5483
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Re: Computers for Law School 2011

Postby random5483 » Fri Apr 29, 2011 1:14 pm

Every computer is fallible. Macs tend to break down less than PCs, but this is largely because you are comparing a quality manufacturer to every PC manufacturer out there. Good PCs likely have similar rates of hardware failure as Macs.

Granted, PCs tend to be more vulnerable to spyware/trojans/viruses etc, but that is largely because people target PCs. If more people start using Macs, both OSs will likely be similarly vulnerable.

Macs tend to run better than PCs because there are less junk programs people can install on them. PCs require a bit more maintenance. Overall, if you manage them, either system can be efficient.


Disclaimer: I use a PC desktop and a Macbook Pro laptop. I run Windows on my Mac laptop while in school because I am hopelessly addicted to OneNote. I prefer Windows as an OS because I am more familiar with Windows. I use a Macbook because I love the multi-touch trackpad and I cannot imagine using a laptop without one! I bought my Macbook in 2007 when I was working and earning well. When I replace my computer next year I might buy a PC since every dollar I save is a dollar less in loans.

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zeth006
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Re: Computers for Law School 2011

Postby zeth006 » Fri Apr 29, 2011 1:59 pm

random5483 wrote:Macs tend to break down less than PCs, but this is largely because you are comparing a quality manufacturer to every PC manufacturer out there. Good PCs likely have similar rates of hardware failure as Macs.


And you base this on what? Anecdotal evidence? Brand bias? Sorry bro, but statistics have shown time and again this isn't true. Go check 2009 Square Trade statistics. SQ does a very nice 3-tier breakdown among netbooks/cheap notebooks, mid-line notebooks, and premium notebooks.

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ResolutePear
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Re: Computers for Law School 2011

Postby ResolutePear » Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:02 pm

zeth006 wrote:
random5483 wrote:Macs tend to break down less than PCs, but this is largely because you are comparing a quality manufacturer to every PC manufacturer out there. Good PCs likely have similar rates of hardware failure as Macs.


And you base this on what? Anecdotal evidence? Brand bias? Sorry bro, but statistics have shown time and again this isn't true. Go check 2009 Square Trade statistics. SQ does a very nice 3-tier breakdown among netbooks/cheap notebooks, mid-line notebooks, and premium notebooks.


MACS BREAK DOWN LESS BECAUSE A UNICORN DIES EVERYTIME ONE BREAKS ON YOU. SERIOUSLY. APPLE SHOOTS ONE IN THE FACE, EVERY FREAKING TIME.

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zeth006
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Re: Computers for Law School 2011

Postby zeth006 » Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:03 pm

Stringer6 wrote:All of the people that said Macs are perfect and never break have finally been put in their place.


Not saying they're all Mac fanboys. But you'd think they'd at least bother to nail down a source for their claims.

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zeth006
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Re: Computers for Law School 2011

Postby zeth006 » Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:03 pm

ResolutePear wrote:
zeth006 wrote:
random5483 wrote:Macs tend to break down less than PCs, but this is largely because you are comparing a quality manufacturer to every PC manufacturer out there. Good PCs likely have similar rates of hardware failure as Macs.


And you base this on what? Anecdotal evidence? Brand bias? Sorry bro, but statistics have shown time and again this isn't true. Go check 2009 Square Trade statistics. SQ does a very nice 3-tier breakdown among netbooks/cheap notebooks, mid-line notebooks, and premium notebooks.


MACS BREAK DOWN LESS BECAUSE A UNICORN DIES EVERYTIME ONE BREAKS ON YOU. SERIOUSLY. APPLE SHOOTS ONE IN THE FACE, EVERY FREAKING TIME.


It's kind of sad how this caricatured response actually isn't too far from the kind of explanations I come across.

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geoduck
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Re: Computers for Law School 2011

Postby geoduck » Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:10 pm

zeth006 wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:
zeth006 wrote:
random5483 wrote:Macs tend to break down less than PCs, but this is largely because you are comparing a quality manufacturer to every PC manufacturer out there. Good PCs likely have similar rates of hardware failure as Macs.


And you base this on what? Anecdotal evidence? Brand bias? Sorry bro, but statistics have shown time and again this isn't true. Go check 2009 Square Trade statistics. SQ does a very nice 3-tier breakdown among netbooks/cheap notebooks, mid-line notebooks, and premium notebooks.


MACS BREAK DOWN LESS BECAUSE A UNICORN DIES EVERYTIME ONE BREAKS ON YOU. SERIOUSLY. APPLE SHOOTS ONE IN THE FACE, EVERY FREAKING TIME.


It's kind of sad how this caricatured response actually isn't too far from the kind of explanations I come across.


To be fair, Steve has to drink the unicorn blood anyway, so it's really a two birds, one stone kinda deal.

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geoduck
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Re: Computers for Law School 2011

Postby geoduck » Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:15 pm

zeth006 wrote:
random5483 wrote:Macs tend to break down less than PCs, but this is largely because you are comparing a quality manufacturer to every PC manufacturer out there. Good PCs likely have similar rates of hardware failure as Macs.


And you base this on what? Anecdotal evidence? Brand bias? Sorry bro, but statistics have shown time and again this isn't true. Go check 2009 Square Trade statistics. SQ does a very nice 3-tier breakdown among netbooks/cheap notebooks, mid-line notebooks, and premium notebooks.


Here's one survey. I can drag up more if chu likes.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/123409-9 ... _from.html

minuit
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Re: Computers for Law School 2011

Postby minuit » Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:38 pm

What is the website people use to backup all of their data again? I can't believe this happened to me, but when my HD died a few weeks ago, I went to plug in my external HD I had used to back up my mac, and it had crapped out too. I dunno if it's even possible to get data off of an external HD. I've tried plugging it into several computers, and it won't even register that I've plugged in a device. Still trying to convince myself that I don't need that homosexuality in Antiquity research paper from sophomore year...

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ResolutePear
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Re: Computers for Law School 2011

Postby ResolutePear » Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:44 pm

minuit wrote:What is the website people use to backup all of their data again? I can't believe this happened to me, but when my HD died a few weeks ago, I went to plug in my external HD I had used to back up my mac, and it had crapped out too. I dunno if it's even possible to get data off of an external HD. I've tried plugging it into several computers, and it won't even register that I've plugged in a device. Still trying to convince myself that I don't need that homosexuality in Antiquity research paper from sophomore year...

Dropbox.

Works on your computer, phone, tablet, w/e. They have apps for almost everything.

Use this link to give me some space plz! http://db.tt/pVWn4ky

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zeth006
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Re: Computers for Law School 2011

Postby zeth006 » Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:52 pm

geoduck wrote:
zeth006 wrote:
random5483 wrote:Macs tend to break down less than PCs, but this is largely because you are comparing a quality manufacturer to every PC manufacturer out there. Good PCs likely have similar rates of hardware failure as Macs.


And you base this on what? Anecdotal evidence? Brand bias? Sorry bro, but statistics have shown time and again this isn't true. Go check 2009 Square Trade statistics. SQ does a very nice 3-tier breakdown among netbooks/cheap notebooks, mid-line notebooks, and premium notebooks.


Here's one survey. I can drag up more if chu likes.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/123409-9 ... _from.html


That's a good article, but try this: http://www.squaretrade.com/htm/pdf/Squa ... y_1109.pdf

Your article does it solely by brand, which in many ways does support your argument. But I don't think it presents a clear picture of the actual quality dynamics in play.

Apple sells only high-end notebooks at the $1,200 price point and beyond. HP sells notebooks at the $300 price point and beyond.
Last edited by zeth006 on Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Stringer6
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Re: Computers for Law School 2011

Postby Stringer6 » Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:54 pm

Apple sells only high-end notebooks at the $1,200 price point and beyond


false

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zeth006
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Re: Computers for Law School 2011

Postby zeth006 » Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:59 pm

Stringer6 wrote:
Apple sells only high-end notebooks at the $1,200 price point and beyond


false



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgce06Yw2ro


Yes, I neglected to account for the $999 Macbook. Which doesn't debunk my overall point

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geoduck
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Re: Computers for Law School 2011

Postby geoduck » Fri Apr 29, 2011 3:11 pm

zeth006 wrote:
geoduck wrote:
zeth006 wrote:
random5483 wrote:Macs tend to break down less than PCs, but this is largely because you are comparing a quality manufacturer to every PC manufacturer out there. Good PCs likely have similar rates of hardware failure as Macs.


And you base this on what? Anecdotal evidence? Brand bias? Sorry bro, but statistics have shown time and again this isn't true. Go check 2009 Square Trade statistics. SQ does a very nice 3-tier breakdown among netbooks/cheap notebooks, mid-line notebooks, and premium notebooks.


Here's one survey. I can drag up more if chu likes.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/123409-9 ... _from.html


That's a good article, but try this: http://www.squaretrade.com/htm/pdf/Squa ... y_1109.pdf

Your article does it solely by brand, which in many ways does support your argument. But I don't think it presents a clear picture of the actual quality dynamics in play.

Apple sells only high-end notebooks at the $1,200 price point and beyond. HP sells notebooks at the $300 price point and beyond.


I don't understand. You are trying to debunk that Apple isn't at par for premium laptops? Figure 4 shows that the forecast for 3-year malfunction rate is 18.1% for premium laptops and 20.6% for entry level. Apple as an overall brand is shown in Figure 5 to have an overall 3 year failure rate of 17.4%, the fourth best. Which makes sense since Asus and Sony share several suppliers and, IIRC, manufacturing plants. Either way, that's .7% below the forecase for premium laptops. And surprise, HP (who as you say sells many more entry level laptops than "premium") is at 25.6%, .5% above the forecast for netbook failures.

My reading of that data is that Apple is primarily a premium laptop producer, giving it mechanical failure rates similar to other premium PC manufacturers. The fact that they don't sell netbooks or entry level notebooks contributes to their overall image of quality, especially when combined with the lower rate of OS issues (kernal panic rate vs BSOD rate) and much smaller malware threat.

Edit: Also, I seem to see both the Macbook and the Macbook Air starting at the $999 price point. They're still a far cry from "entry level" price points, but that's still two of the three lines starting below your stated $1200 starting price.
Last edited by geoduck on Fri Apr 29, 2011 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

minuit
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Re: Computers for Law School 2011

Postby minuit » Fri Apr 29, 2011 3:18 pm

ResolutePear wrote:
minuit wrote:What is the website people use to backup all of their data again? I can't believe this happened to me, but when my HD died a few weeks ago, I went to plug in my external HD I had used to back up my mac, and it had crapped out too. I dunno if it's even possible to get data off of an external HD. I've tried plugging it into several computers, and it won't even register that I've plugged in a device. Still trying to convince myself that I don't need that homosexuality in Antiquity research paper from sophomore year...

Dropbox.

Works on your computer, phone, tablet, w/e. They have apps for almost everything.

Use this link to give me some space plz! http://db.tt/pVWn4ky


Thanks! I will use that link when I register :)

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zeth006
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Re: Computers for Law School 2011

Postby zeth006 » Fri Apr 29, 2011 3:55 pm

geoduck wrote:I don't understand. You are trying to debunk that Apple isn't at par for premium laptops? Figure 4 shows that the forecast for 3-year malfunction rate is 18.1% for premium laptops and 20.6% for entry level. Apple as an overall brand is shown in Figure 5 to have an overall 3 year failure rate of 17.4%, the fourth best. Which makes sense since Asus and Sony share several suppliers and, IIRC, manufacturing plants. Either way, that's .7% below the forecase for premium laptops. And surprise, HP (who as you say sells many more entry level laptops than "premium") is at 25.6%, .5% above the forecast for netbook failures.

My reading of that data is that Apple is primarily a premium laptop producer, giving it mechanical failure rates similar to other premium PC manufacturers. The fact that they don't sell netbooks or entry level notebooks contributes to their overall image of quality, especially when combined with the lower rate of OS issues (kernal panic rate vs BSOD rate) and much smaller malware threat.

Edit: Also, I seem to see both the Macbook and the Macbook Air starting at the $999 price point. They're still a far cry from "entry level" price points, but that's still two of the three lines starting below your stated $1200 starting price.


No, I'm not saying Apple isn't a premium notebook seller unless you somehow read my statement that they sell only $1,200 $1,000 notebooks to mean they don't. [Note: The $999 Macbook Air was released a few months ago, so that probably wouldn't really be accounted to any recent reliability data anyway].


In case you missed it, my main point boiled down to the idea that simply generalizing that Apple Macs are more reliable than PC notebooks doesn't tell the whole story. All I did was qualify an earlier point by doing a breakdown by price points instead of flat out brand comparisons. I don't really see the disagreement. Also, I'm not clear as to what you mean by "lines." Again, it doesn't really change anything.

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Stringer6
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Re: Computers for Law School 2011

Postby Stringer6 » Fri Apr 29, 2011 4:25 pm

expand on your points, everyone

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geoduck
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Re: Computers for Law School 2011

Postby geoduck » Fri Apr 29, 2011 4:30 pm

I was basing your position upon your response to this:

Macs tend to break down less than PCs, but this is largely because you are comparing a quality manufacturer to every PC manufacturer out there. Good PCs likely have similar rates of hardware failure as Macs.


To which you said:

And you base this on what? Anecdotal evidence? Brand bias? Sorry bro, but statistics have shown time and again this isn't true. Go check 2009 Square Trade statistics. SQ does a very nice 3-tier breakdown among netbooks/cheap notebooks, mid-line notebooks, and premium notebooks.


To summarize, he said that the reason that Macs have a low break down rate compared to the overall PC market is because they don't compare to the overall PC market. They compare to the premium PC market. Essentially, stack Macs up to $1000+ PCs and the failure rate is pretty similar.

You countered by saying that statistics show that not to be true... then proved it with a survey that shows Asus, Toshiba, Sony and Apple all outperforming the predicted fail rate for premium PCs, Dell outperforming the predicted fail rate for entry level PCs, Lenovo, Acer, and Gateway outperforming the prediction for netbooks, and HP under-performing against all predictions. This survey seems to show that Apple, along with Asus, Toshiba, and Sony, all have notebook failure rates lower than the predicted failure rates for premium notebooks and are within a variance of 1.8% of each other. This directly proves random5483's contention that Apple has similar failure rates to other premium notebooks.

I merely pointed this out, while adding a bit of a snark in pointing out that you didn't even know the base price for an Apple laptop. $999 is certainly still a premium notebook price. By lines, I was referring to the Macbook, Macbook Pro, and Macbook Air product lines. This is similar to how Dell has the Latitude line and the XPS line and how Lenovo has the Thinkpad.

But you are correct. Generalizing that Apple is more reliable than PCs, while true when comparing the entire PC line up as a whole, fails to stand up when you compare (forgive me) apples to apples. Unfortunately for you, you attacked random5483 for saying the exact same thing. Therefore I am going to have to give you a 149 for flunking the RC portion of this thread.

Edit: If you need anymore clarification as to how you jumped the gun because his first statement was "Macs tend to break down more than PCs", replace everything he said with the most reliable Windows notebook manufacturer on that report you cited. "[Asus] tend to break down less than PCs, but this is largely because you are comparing a quality [PC] manufacturer to every PC manufacturer out there. Good PCs likely have similar rates of hardware failure as [Asus]."

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jdubb990
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Re: Computers for Law School 2011

Postby jdubb990 » Fri Apr 29, 2011 5:06 pm

Switched from PC to 13 in. macbook pro halfway through school. Never looking back.

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shepdawg
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Re: Computers for Law School 2011

Postby shepdawg » Mon May 02, 2011 12:42 am

Here's how it works at my school
All the trust fund babies in the median have Macs
All the guys who got dropped after 1st semester had Macs
However, person who booked Property had a Mac
Everyone else in the 90's had PC.

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ResolutePear
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Re: Computers for Law School 2011

Postby ResolutePear » Mon May 02, 2011 3:36 am

shepdawg wrote:Here's how it works at my school
All the trust fund babies in the median have Macs
All the guys who got dropped after 1st semester had Macs
However, person who booked Property had a Mac
Everyone else in the 90's had PC.


Macs weren't cool in the 90's.

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BackToTheOldHouse
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Re: Computers for Law School 2011

Postby BackToTheOldHouse » Mon May 02, 2011 10:36 am

I know my [insert type of computer here] is going to put me in the top 2% of my class. I just know it.

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oldhippie
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Re: Computers for Law School 2011

Postby oldhippie » Wed May 04, 2011 2:07 pm

i'm leaning towards a lenovo just based on all of the endorsements ITT (pc vs mac debate aside :wink: ) and i'm wondering from those who have bought them....where do you recommend getting one for a good price? go direct to the lenovo site? some other site? big box store? i have bought one computer in the last 12 years and just got it from best buy, so i'm hoping y'all have some better ideas.....
tyia

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bk1
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Re: Computers for Law School 2011

Postby bk1 » Wed May 04, 2011 2:29 pm

oldhippie wrote:i'm leaning towards a lenovo just based on all of the endorsements ITT (pc vs mac debate aside :wink: ) and i'm wondering from those who have bought them....where do you recommend getting one for a good price? go direct to the lenovo site? some other site? big box store? i have bought one computer in the last 12 years and just got it from best buy, so i'm hoping y'all have some better ideas.....
tyia


Big box stores are usually the worst. I usually check the manufacturer's website, Newegg, Amazon, B&H Photo Video, and Google Shopping Search.

Another good thing to look at (and this is for all products) is http://camelcamelcamel.com/ where you can see product price history for things on Amazon/BestBuy/Newegg to see if they have just recently upped the price.

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oldhippie
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Re: Computers for Law School 2011

Postby oldhippie » Wed May 04, 2011 2:41 pm

thanks bk!!




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