HELP! my TTT is courting me

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Vronsky
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HELP! my TTT is courting me

Postby Vronsky » Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:09 pm

.

Thanks for the advice everyone
Last edited by Vronsky on Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

paulinaporizkova
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Re: HELP! my TTT is courting me

Postby paulinaporizkova » Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:10 pm

transfer to t14 ASAP

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fatduck
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Re: HELP! my TTT is courting me

Postby fatduck » Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:12 pm

Meet with your dean, be politic, smile and nod. Then fucking transfer.

paulinaporizkova
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Re: HELP! my TTT is courting me

Postby paulinaporizkova » Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:13 pm

fatduck wrote:Meet with your dean, be politic, smile and nod. Then fucking transfer.


*high five*

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OGR3
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Re: HELP! my TTT is courting me

Postby OGR3 » Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:13 pm

paulinaporizkova wrote:transfer to t14 ASAP


This is the credited response.

There's no reason to stay. Any TTT that says median starting income is $160,000 is a horrible horrible place.

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Vronsky
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Re: HELP! my TTT is courting me

Postby Vronsky » Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:16 pm

Even if Best-case-scenario = Full scholarship + LR grade on, vs. say, GULC w/o LR and obviously at sticker?

BTW it's technically a TT, but close to falling off into the abyss. It is, however in the NYC market and I want a *shot* at BigLaw.

paulinaporizkova
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Re: HELP! my TTT is courting me

Postby paulinaporizkova » Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:20 pm

Vronsky wrote:Even if Best-case-scenario = Full scholarship + LR grade on, vs. say, GULC w/o LR and obviously at sticker?

BTW it's technically a TT, but close to falling off into the abyss. It is, however in the NYC market and I want a *shot* at BigLaw.

you want a shot at biglaw? GULC hands down

paulinaporizkova
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Re: HELP! my TTT is courting me

Postby paulinaporizkova » Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:26 pm

let's put it this way: 3-4 people at your school get biglaw you say. 25-30% at GULC do (around 150 people, give or take 20) and about 50% do at Michigan, Penn, and Virginia. Way more than that at Northwestern and I'm not sure about Cornell or Duke but I'd say between 40-50%. Versus like 1-2% at your school. It's a no brainer

showNprove
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Re: HELP! my TTT is courting me

Postby showNprove » Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:27 pm

I would definitely transfer to the T14, and if you have options within the T14, pick one that will let you have a shot at Law Review.

You're definitely thinking about this the right way. Yes, you can get biglaw from your school, but as you already know, it's highly unlikely. Moreover, I'm betting that even the graduates who do make biglaw have an awful time trying to make partner. You may be surprised at how much pedigree still matters 8 years down the road.

Keep in mind that transfer students typically don't do well at OCI, so you will have to hustle hard to get a job. This year will still be tough for you, but it will get easier each year when employers start to look at your (expected) degree and not your 1L grades.

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piccolittle
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Re: HELP! my TTT is courting me

Postby piccolittle » Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:32 pm

To be honest, it sounds like you might be better off where you are. I would be frank with this dean, as it sounds as though they really don't want to lose you. Just say you're concerned about debt and employment, and see what he/she has to say.

If I were you, I'd rather be T2 (I wonder which school?) in NYC on LR, top 10%, with no debt, than lost in a sea of disillusioned GULC grads with comparable employment prospects. Also, what market do you want?

Granted, it can't hurt to apply for transfers and see who bites before taking a closer look at your options :)
Last edited by piccolittle on Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

glacierfrost
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Re: HELP! my TTT is courting me

Postby glacierfrost » Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:32 pm

Do you have any substantial work experience before law school?

I would transfer.

flcath
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Re: HELP! my TTT is courting me

Postby flcath » Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:42 pm

Obviously apply broadly and see what you get. The nice thing is that since scholarships aren't a factor, you can just go to the best school you can get.

I dunno what the exact "cut-off" rank should be for when you forego the money and transfer, but it should probably be well down the line (worse ranked) than GULC, which I suspect you'll get given its transfer standards.

Be straight w/ the dean, and discuss things in terms of "likelihoods."

keg411
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Re: HELP! my TTT is courting me

Postby keg411 » Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:45 pm

Just be polite, listen to what the Dean has to say, say "thank you, I will definitely take that into consideration" and then decide what you want to do from there. You can mention employment prospects if asked straight up why you want to transfer, but try to phrase it in a way that isn't accusatory. Because if you do decide to transfer, you don't want to do anything that could jeopardize your applications.

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Vronsky
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Re: HELP! my TTT is courting me

Postby Vronsky » Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:52 pm

flcath wrote:Obviously apply broadly and see what you get. The nice thing is that since scholarships aren't a factor, you can just go to the best school you can get.
I dunno what the exact "cut-off" rank should be for when you forego the money and transfer, but it should probably be well down the line (worse ranked) than GULC, which I suspect you'll get given its transfer standards.
Be straight w/ the dean, and discuss things in terms of "likelihoods."


This is the basic advice I've gotten from professors. They say LR + Scholarship at my school is basically equal to Fordham or GULC, but if I get in CLS or NYU, to just go and don't look back. (BTW if you're wondering what NYC area T2, it's not one of the 'better' ones). Although it sounds like GULC also falls into the "just go" category.

I don't really want to work in DC, but would prefer NYC BigLaw (or Hong Kong?) I have a bit of work experience, but nothing stellar like business experience. (Taught ESL in Asia for a year.)

I'm planning on applying to CLS, NYU, UVA, and already have applied GULC EA. I'm particularly interested in georgetown because i can compete in the LR competition in june. I'm a little bit concerned about the negatives that are in the air regarding georgetown, but figure that by summer 2013, things *should* be better.

BTW thanks to everyone for useful replies. Keg, I'm going to do just that.
Last edited by Vronsky on Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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fatduck
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Re: HELP! my TTT is courting me

Postby fatduck » Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:53 pm

Why not give Chicago ED a shot?

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Vronsky
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Re: HELP! my TTT is courting me

Postby Vronsky » Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:55 pm

fatduck wrote:Why not give Chicago ED a shot?

I was concerned about the "binding" nature of it, although I'm not 100% sure how that works. Maybe I should.

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fatduck
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Re: HELP! my TTT is courting me

Postby fatduck » Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:56 pm

Vronsky wrote:
fatduck wrote:Why not give Chicago ED a shot?

I was concerned about the "binding" nature of it, although I'm not 100% sure how that works. Maybe I should.


It is binding: if you get accepted, you have to go. They also defer some applicants to RD (many of whom still get accepted). You probably have a much better chance at Chicago ED than you do NYU/CLS, and Chicago will still give you a great shot at NYC biglaw.

flcath
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Re: HELP! my TTT is courting me

Postby flcath » Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:56 pm

Vronsky wrote:
fatduck wrote:Why not give Chicago ED a shot?

I was concerned about the "binding" nature of it, although I'm not 100% sure how that works. Maybe I should.
It'd definitely be worth doing, though I wouldn't hold your breath for it panning out (no offense).

maf70
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Re: HELP! my TTT is courting me

Postby maf70 » Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:56 pm

Tell them to give you a tenured professorship or to GTFO.

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fatduck
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Re: HELP! my TTT is courting me

Postby fatduck » Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:00 pm

flcath wrote:
Vronsky wrote:
fatduck wrote:Why not give Chicago ED a shot?

I was concerned about the "binding" nature of it, although I'm not 100% sure how that works. Maybe I should.
It'd definitely be worth doing, though I wouldn't hold your breath for it panning out (no offense).


Assuming OP is top 3-5% at SJU, he has a legitimate shot at Chicago ED, though it's a reach. Much better than CLS/NYU. I'd throw an app to Penn, also.

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JazzOne
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Re: HELP! my TTT is courting me

Postby JazzOne » Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:01 pm

maf70 wrote:Tell them to give you a tenured professorship or to GTFO.

lol

Seriously. Tell the dean you'll stay if he can guarantee you a biglaw job (or whatever your job of choice is).

paulinaporizkova
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Re: HELP! my TTT is courting me

Postby paulinaporizkova » Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:02 pm

JazzOne wrote:
maf70 wrote:Tell them to give you a tenured professorship or to GTFO.

lol

Seriously. Tell the dean you'll stay if he can guarantee you a biglaw job (or whatever your job of choice is).

no kidding. throw the school's shitty employment stats back in his face. i mean, no offense....

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ggocat
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Re: HELP! my TTT is courting me

Postby ggocat » Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:02 pm

Granted, it can't hurt to apply for transfers and see who bites before taking a closer look at your options :)

The only good advice so far, IMO.

EDIT: ok, so like a million posts since I started writing this... maybe there's other good advice, but I didn't read it.

(You might also have a better chance of negotiating for a full ride, rather than 75%, at your current school if you have a T14 acceptance in hand.)

Vronsky wrote: So I have a few questions for the TLS community (preferably from students who have transferred, or those who had the option but decided to stay put). I have not been accepted anywhere to transfer but stand to get accepted to 1 or more T14 schools.

...

Even if Best-case-scenario = Full scholarship + LR grade on, vs. say, GULC w/o LR and obviously at sticker?

I attended a TTT, and I decided to stay put after getting grades sufficient to grade on to law review. I already had a good scholarship with partial living stipend. I figured the law review and money outweighed the benefit of my transfer options (maybe T14 or T20). I didn't pursue biglaw seriously, and I ended up clerking for a state appellate judge.

Making a transfer decision when money/debt is involved is a pretty personal decision. People have different attitudes towards and tolerances for debt. I wanted to limit my debt.

If you want biglaw, transferring could be a good option. But if you are top 5% at a second tier school in NY, then you will probably get plenty of biglaw interviews. But a transfer to NYU or Columbia could be an option.


So how should I approach this?

Should I attempt to negotiate more scholly on top of the Top10% bonus?

Just be polite and thank them for meeting with you. I would only ask for the full ride right now unless you are sure you would take it. But you can definitely ask what the scholarship would be and if there would be any possibility of getting a full ride. You can also ask for the full ride later if you want to see what your options are first. (Of course, as time passes, it will likely be more difficult for them to stray from their budget).

Should I ask for cold hard data about alumni at V100 firms?

You should have asked about this before you decided to attend...

But I wouldn't ask some random assistant dean for this info during this particular meeting. But of course you should feel free to ask your CSO for this information at any time.

Vronsky wrote: Now, unfortunately, I haven't climbed up the totem pole enough to meet with the real dean, only an assistant dean, but an important figure nonetheless.

Haha seriously? If you want to meet with the dean, just ask to schedule a meeting. Is this uncommon at your school? I think my dean maintained an "open appointment" policy. Plenty of students got meetings on various topics just by asking to meet with the dean.

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fatduck
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Re: HELP! my TTT is courting me

Postby fatduck » Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:03 pm

maf70 wrote:Tell them to give you a tenured professorship or to GTFO.


Not everyone is a lock for the Ben Franklin Chair.

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Vronsky
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Re: HELP! my TTT is courting me

Postby Vronsky » Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:06 pm

fatduck wrote:
flcath wrote:
Vronsky wrote:
fatduck wrote:Why not give Chicago ED a shot?

I was concerned about the "binding" nature of it, although I'm not 100% sure how that works. Maybe I should.
It'd definitely be worth doing, though I wouldn't hold your breath for it panning out (no offense).


Assuming OP is top 3-5% at SJU, he has a legitimate shot at Chicago ED, though it's a reach. Much better than CLS/NYU. I'd throw an app to Penn, also.


No offense taken. Not sure about class rank but GPA is 3.8 on a 3.1 curve. Actual rank not released yet. I've been told it's well within top 10%. I was also a little unsure about chicago because i heard they take a small transfer class, and CLS usually takes more than 1 students from my school each year.




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