What should I do to prepare for law school

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thecilent
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Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2009 4:55 pm

Re: What should I do to prepare for law school

Postby thecilent » Sat Feb 12, 2011 10:10 am

Stringer6 wrote:Any suggestions or reading materials on "working a happy hour"? This sounds horrifying. I despise these types of social situations, although i guess i could buckle down if it really mattered. And when are these happy hours? 1L?

Lol Oh man.

I think it's awesome that firms do this. Happy hours are the best hours of the days.

pasteurizedmilk
Posts: 460
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:12 pm

Re: What should I do to prepare for law school

Postby pasteurizedmilk » Sat Feb 12, 2011 1:06 pm

Learn to type really really really fast.

Browse Facebook in class.

If you do both, guaranteed top 5%.

towkthi
Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2010 2:49 pm

Re: What should I do to prepare for law school

Postby towkthi » Sat Feb 12, 2011 6:07 pm

This thread has been very interesting. Like Judge Phillip Banks, I'm a 0L lurker and I've got questions about 1L summer employment. I've been looking through NALP to see who hire's summer 1Ls but the results for Chicago only list 15 organizations. Does that sound right? It just seemed like such a low number for a city like Chicago that I feel like I'm looking in the wrong place. What sort of other organizations do summer 1L hiring? I know there are judicial internships, etc.

thanks in advance

slacker
Posts: 72
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 11:54 pm

Re: What should I do to prepare for law school

Postby slacker » Sat Feb 12, 2011 7:03 pm

What exactly is considered "fast" when it comes to typing? Anyone have an actual words per minute that you have in mind? Just wondering.

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fatduck
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Re: What should I do to prepare for law school

Postby fatduck » Sat Feb 12, 2011 7:07 pm

slacker wrote:What exactly is considered "fast" when it comes to typing? Anyone have an actual words per minute that you have in mind? Just wondering.


got this from NALP:

Code: Select all

A+: 200
A: 180
A-: 150
B+: 120
B: 100
B-: 80

adonai
Posts: 1033
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:09 pm

Re: What should I do to prepare for law school

Postby adonai » Sat Feb 12, 2011 7:18 pm

fatduck wrote:
slacker wrote:What exactly is considered "fast" when it comes to typing? Anyone have an actual words per minute that you have in mind? Just wondering.


got this from NALP:

Code: Select all

A+: 200
A: 180
A-: 150
B+: 120
B: 100
B-: 80

Is this for real? How can you be expected to type that many wpm while trying to articulate a well written answer within 3 hours? Why do the amount of words/pages matter in terms of grading anyway? I had the notion that it was better to be concise and accurate rather than verbose. Or maybe I'm wrong and that many words is considered concise in law school...

missinglink
Posts: 946
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:49 am

Re: What should I do to prepare for law school

Postby missinglink » Sat Feb 12, 2011 7:21 pm

fatduck wrote:
slacker wrote:What exactly is considered "fast" when it comes to typing? Anyone have an actual words per minute that you have in mind? Just wondering.


got this from NALP:

Code: Select all

A+: 200
A: 180
A-: 150
B+: 120
B: 100
B-: 80

Ha. Too true.

missinglink
Posts: 946
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:49 am

Re: What should I do to prepare for law school

Postby missinglink » Sat Feb 12, 2011 7:23 pm

Helmholtz wrote:
thecilent wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:I know that the competition for LR starts almost immediately after finals are done here, but you're going to start doing some legal writing and bluebooking pretty early into your first semester. Eugene Volokh, in his book on legal writing and law review competitions, stresses that you should be extremely familiar with the bluebook and a general/legal style guide long before that time even rolls around. You'll save yourself some time and anxiety if you're already plugged into those guides. And unlike law courses for the most part, which can differ wildly from professor to professor, generally speaking, what's good bluebooking/writing at Harvard is good bluebooking/writing at Cornell which is good bluebooking/writing at UIUC.

Oh, and I forgot something else. This may sound ridiculously premature, but get some of your 1L summer job stuff done before you start LS. You're going to be overwhelmed as things get moving and around Dec. 1st, you're probably going to be feeling the walls of your first exams start to close in. This is really my biggest regret re: 0L prep. I wish to god that I had the foresight to take care of the bulk of all things 1L summer early on.

I've heard the bolded a couple times and def planned on working on that. Never heard about familiarizing with bluebooking though. Any recommendations on style guides? thanks btw


I would recommend Garner's Redbook for legal writing. You might as well pick up Volokh's "Academic Legal Writing" now (there shouldn't be a new edition for another 2-3 years, and you're going to buy it anyway, so why not). A lot of different guides will do for general grammar/usage. I liked Strunk & White.

Credited.

Strunk and White will benefit you in every aspect of your legal writing.

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JusticeHarlan
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Re: What should I do to prepare for law school

Postby JusticeHarlan » Sat Feb 12, 2011 9:48 pm

ogurty wrote:OP: As someone who did a bit of 0L prep and then did well first semester, here's my advice:

Read Getting to Maybe and the most well-respected articles on TLS on doing well in law school - xeoh, Arrow, etc. Everything else was pretty useless for me.
If you can't type fast, learn to.
Otherwise, just get as much of your life in order as you can so you have as much time as possible to focus on school. Have a pretty solid exercise regimen. Get an idea of how you'll eat healthfully while at school. If you're commuting, make sure your car is in good shape - something I wish I'd done.

Read a bit of E&Es if it relieves your anxiety - it can't hurt - but after going through a semester of school, I'm solidly in the camp that says it won't help. They'll only help once you have an idea of what your professor is looking for.

As another 1L who was quite satisfied with his first semester grades, this post gets a +1 from me.

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BruceWayne
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Re: What should I do to prepare for law school

Postby BruceWayne » Sat Feb 12, 2011 9:56 pm

adonai wrote:
fatduck wrote:
slacker wrote:What exactly is considered "fast" when it comes to typing? Anyone have an actual words per minute that you have in mind? Just wondering.


got this from NALP:

Code: Select all

A+: 200
A: 180
A-: 150
B+: 120
B: 100
B-: 80

Is this for real? How can you be expected to type that many wpm while trying to articulate a well written answer within 3 hours? Why do the amount of words/pages matter in terms of grading anyway? I had the notion that it was better to be concise and accurate rather than verbose. Or maybe I'm wrong and that many words is considered concise in law school...


As hard as it is to believe (and trust me I'm still having a hard time grasping it) a lot of kids can type that fast and still come up with a well written answer. You really need to learn how to type rapidly before you get to law school. As far as the "it's better to be concise and accurate" thing, there's some truth to that, but here's the reality. Essentially everyone taking the exam will be writing accurate arguments. Consequently, if everyone's writing accurate arguments, but someone is writing less (quantity wise) accurate arguments than someone else, that means they are getting less points. The other thing to keep in mind is that the majority of 1L law exams are variations on the issue spotter style exam. On an issue spotter exam the name of the game is to write accurate well written answers about as many issues as possible.

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fatduck
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Re: What should I do to prepare for law school

Postby fatduck » Sat Feb 12, 2011 10:11 pm

BruceWayne wrote:
adonai wrote:
fatduck wrote:
slacker wrote:What exactly is considered "fast" when it comes to typing? Anyone have an actual words per minute that you have in mind? Just wondering.


got this from NALP:

Code: Select all

A+: 200
A: 180
A-: 150
B+: 120
B: 100
B-: 80

Is this for real? How can you be expected to type that many wpm while trying to articulate a well written answer within 3 hours? Why do the amount of words/pages matter in terms of grading anyway? I had the notion that it was better to be concise and accurate rather than verbose. Or maybe I'm wrong and that many words is considered concise in law school...


As hard as it is to believe (and trust me I'm still having a hard time grasping it) a lot of kids can type that fast and still come up with a well written answer. You really need to learn how to type rapidly before you get to law school. As far as the "it's better to be concise and accurate" thing, there's some truth to that, but here's the reality. Essentially everyone taking the exam will be writing accurate arguments. Consequently, if everyone's writing accurate arguments, but someone is writing less (quantity wise) accurate arguments than someone else, that means they are getting less points. The other thing to keep in mind is that the majority of 1L law exams are variations on the issue spotter style exam. On an issue spotter exam the name of the game is to write accurate well written answers about as many issues as possible.


I really, really doubt anyone is typing essay responses at over 100 wpm (and I can break 200 on typing tests)

2011Law
Posts: 822
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2010 3:40 pm

Re: What should I do to prepare for law school

Postby 2011Law » Sat Feb 12, 2011 10:25 pm

BruceWayne wrote:
adonai wrote:
fatduck wrote:
slacker wrote:What exactly is considered "fast" when it comes to typing? Anyone have an actual words per minute that you have in mind? Just wondering.


got this from NALP:

Code: Select all

A+: 200
A: 180
A-: 150
B+: 120
B: 100
B-: 80

Is this for real? How can you be expected to type that many wpm while trying to articulate a well written answer within 3 hours? Why do the amount of words/pages matter in terms of grading anyway? I had the notion that it was better to be concise and accurate rather than verbose. Or maybe I'm wrong and that many words is considered concise in law school...


As hard as it is to believe (and trust me I'm still having a hard time grasping it) a lot of kids can type that fast and still come up with a well written answer. You really need to learn how to type rapidly before you get to law school. As far as the "it's better to be concise and accurate" thing, there's some truth to that, but here's the reality. Essentially everyone taking the exam will be writing accurate arguments. Consequently, if everyone's writing accurate arguments, but someone is writing less (quantity wise) accurate arguments than someone else, that means they are getting less points. The other thing to keep in mind is that the majority of 1L law exams are variations on the issue spotter style exam. On an issue spotter exam the name of the game is to write accurate well written answers about as many issues as possible.


0L here, but I also really doubt how true it is that one's typing speed is a key ingredient to success. Do the professors really give out exams that people who type at 65 wpm (like myself :oops: ) cannot get an A on? I know that exams are curved, but I have a hard time believing that just because I might be slower than average at typing that I will be unable to write an above average exam. Again, I doubt professors would be so dumb to make the exam a speed typing competition.

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JazzOne
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Re: What should I do to prepare for law school

Postby JazzOne » Sat Feb 12, 2011 10:37 pm

I have found law school grading to be much more arbitrary than one would hope. Is it impossible for a slow typist to earn an A? No. Would it be easier if that person could type faster? Yes. That is because some professors use ridiculous hypos for the exam with more issues than anyone can address in the timeframe. Some profs admit that even they could not find all the issues in the allotted time. Plus, a lot of profs use a point system where they keep increasing your score for every issue that you analyze correctly. Fast typers can write about more issues. Even if you're not typing the entire time, getting your thoughts down quickly will give you more time to look over the hypo for more issues.

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BruceWayne
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Re: What should I do to prepare for law school

Postby BruceWayne » Sat Feb 12, 2011 11:03 pm

JazzOne wrote:I have found law school grading to be much more arbitrary than one would hope. Is it impossible for a slow typist to earn an A? No. Would it be easier if that person could type faster? Yes. That is because some professors use ridiculous hypos for the exam with more issues than anyone can address in the timeframe. Some profs admit that even they could not find all the issues in the allotted time. Plus, a lot of profs use a point system where they keep increasing your score for every issue that you analyze correctly. Fast typers can write about more issues. Even if you're not typing the entire time, getting your thoughts down quickly will give you more time to look over the hypo for more issues.



This post is an incredibly accurate summation of what I was trying to get across.

CMDantes
Posts: 420
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 2:37 pm

Re: What should I do to prepare for law school

Postby CMDantes » Sun Feb 13, 2011 12:29 am

Thanks for all the pro advice here JazzOne, incredibly helpful as always.

Master Tofu
Posts: 235
Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2006 11:43 pm

Re: What should I do to prepare for law school

Postby Master Tofu » Sun Feb 13, 2011 6:20 am

missinglink wrote:
fatduck wrote:
slacker wrote:What exactly is considered "fast" when it comes to typing? Anyone have an actual words per minute that you have in mind? Just wondering.


got this from NALP:

Code: Select all

A+: 200
A: 180
A-: 150
B+: 120
B: 100
B-: 80

Ha. Too true.



Guys, this is not real.

. . .

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kazu
Posts: 1602
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 9:35 pm

Re: What should I do to prepare for law school

Postby kazu » Sun Feb 13, 2011 6:50 am

Really useful information overall, thanks :)

Fark-o-vision
Posts: 590
Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2009 6:41 pm

Re: What should I do to prepare for law school

Postby Fark-o-vision » Sun Feb 13, 2011 8:20 am

Ended up good. But don't cross Helmzy. He isn't a judicious use of power type guy.

forty-two
Posts: 433
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:33 am

Re: What should I do to prepare for law school

Postby forty-two » Sun Feb 13, 2011 10:41 am

2011Law wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:As hard as it is to believe (and trust me I'm still having a hard time grasping it) a lot of kids can type that fast and still come up with a well written answer. You really need to learn how to type rapidly before you get to law school. As far as the "it's better to be concise and accurate" thing, there's some truth to that, but here's the reality. Essentially everyone taking the exam will be writing accurate arguments. Consequently, if everyone's writing accurate arguments, but someone is writing less (quantity wise) accurate arguments than someone else, that means they are getting less points. The other thing to keep in mind is that the majority of 1L law exams are variations on the issue spotter style exam. On an issue spotter exam the name of the game is to write accurate well written answers about as many issues as possible.


0L here, but I also really doubt how true it is that one's typing speed is a key ingredient to success. Do the professors really give out exams that people who type at 65 wpm (like myself :oops: ) cannot get an A on? I know that exams are curved, but I have a hard time believing that just because I might be slower than average at typing that I will be unable to write an above average exam. Again, I doubt professors would be so dumb to make the exam a speed typing competition.


I think it depends on what you're writing. I type about 65 wpm, and I spend a lot of time reading the prompt and outlining my answer during exams. This meant that all of my exams were shorter than most last semester. However, I apparently did well on all of them. I was talking to one of my profs about my exam the other day, and he said he liked that my essays were all very clear, organized, and had a good amount of analysis. Multiple profs have told me that said that a bunch of people always write several pages that don't earn them any points. It's not that what they write is inaccurate or wrong, it just doesn't help.

I'm not at all saying that writing a lot is a bad thing. I'm just trying to say that writing a shorter exam won't doom you. If you make every word count, are organized, and give each issue the attention it deserves, you can still have one of the top essays in the class.

vtoodler
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Re: What should I do to prepare for law school

Postby vtoodler » Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:10 pm

What are E&E's?

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Heartford
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Re: What should I do to prepare for law school

Postby Heartford » Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:47 pm

vtoodler wrote:What are E&E's?


It stands for ephedrine and egotheism- the two secrets to acing law school.

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beach_terror
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Re: What should I do to prepare for law school

Postby beach_terror » Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:55 pm

vtoodler wrote:What are E&E's?

Ecstasy and Eulogies

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Rooney
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Re: What should I do to prepare for law school

Postby Rooney » Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:39 pm

fatduck wrote:you should buy all the E&Es and read them in page order

i.e. read every page 1, then every page 2, etc.

you'll absorb the info better this way, especially if you are drunk



Your picture is rowdy

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Leira7905
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Re: What should I do to prepare for law school

Postby Leira7905 » Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:42 pm

fatduck wrote:
slacker wrote:What exactly is considered "fast" when it comes to typing? Anyone have an actual words per minute that you have in mind? Just wondering.


got this from NALP:

Code: Select all

A+: 200
A: 180
A-: 150
B+: 120
B: 100
B-: 80


:shock: :shock: Good Lord! Please tell me you're kidding! I'm at about 90wpm, and I thought I'd be doing good to crack 100... WTF?

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TheTopBloke
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Re: What should I do to prepare for law school

Postby TheTopBloke » Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:43 pm

Stringer6 wrote:Any suggestions or reading materials on "working a happy hour"? This sounds horrifying. I despise these types of social situations, although i guess i could buckle down if it really mattered. And when are these happy hours? 1L?


I hate that shit too. I wouldn't even waste my time if I were you. Networking is highly overrated.




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