Running from the Law

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pasteurizedmilk
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Running from the Law

Postby pasteurizedmilk » Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:38 pm

http://www.infirmation.com/bboard/clubs ... _id=001uDi

EDITED BY MODS: PLEASE DO NOT CUT+PASTE ENTIRE ARTICLES, THANK YOU.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Running from the Law

Postby vanwinkle » Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:54 pm

Very interesting article, but as noted, please don't paste whole articles, especially not ones that long, thanks.

pasteurizedmilk
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Re: Running from the Law

Postby pasteurizedmilk » Thu Feb 10, 2011 10:11 pm

vanwinkle wrote:Very interesting article, but as noted, please don't paste whole articles, especially not ones that long, thanks.


Okay. I didn't know there was a rule against posting articles in full.

For those interested, it's a really good read about life at big firms. It's well written, and I highly recommend it.

09042014
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Re: Running from the Law

Postby 09042014 » Thu Feb 10, 2011 10:13 pm

TL;DR; pad your hours

Stephanie13
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Re: Running from the Law

Postby Stephanie13 » Thu Feb 10, 2011 10:14 pm

I thought this was very good. Scary though.

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TommyK
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Re: Running from the Law

Postby TommyK » Thu Feb 10, 2011 10:15 pm

Thanks for sharing. Great read.

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artichoke
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Re: Running from the Law

Postby artichoke » Thu Feb 10, 2011 10:16 pm

Very depressing. Thanks for posting.

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Grond
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Re: Running from the Law

Postby Grond » Thu Feb 10, 2011 10:16 pm

Wow, Greedy Associates. I'd completely forgotten about that board. It was xo before xo.

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swc65
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Re: Running from the Law

Postby swc65 » Thu Feb 10, 2011 10:57 pm

You know what? Whoever wrote this is a whiny bitch. Try tarring a roof in the middle of summer for 12 hours per day for min wage. Or, try getting shot at in a war zone for 40K per year. Or, try picking fruit for .06 per banana or chopping chickens in a factory until your right arm is three times of the size of your left and you cant use it anymore.

I am so sick of hearing lawyers bitch and moan that they work so many hours in such a stressful job. Sitting in a climate controlled office at computer reading or researching or writing is nothing compared to what MOST people have to do for work. If you can't handle this, kill yourself or shut the fuck up!

Seriously, where the hell are you going to make that much money and not work your ass off? If you went to law school for the money, then you deserve exactly what you get. If you don't like it GET THE FUCK OUT!!!! Open up a spot for someone else who would be happy to do the work for that much money.
Last edited by swc65 on Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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JazzOne
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Re: Running from the Law

Postby JazzOne » Thu Feb 10, 2011 10:58 pm

swc65 wrote:You know what? Whoever wrote this is a whiny bitch. Try tarring a roof in the middle of summer for 12 hours per day for min wage. Or, try getting shot at in a war zone for 40K per year. Or, try picking fruit for .06 per banana or chopping chickens in a factory until your right arm is three times of the size of your left and you cant use it anymore.

I am so sick of hearing lawyers bitch and moan that they work so many hours in such a stressful job. Sitting in a climate controlled office at computer reading or researching or writing is nothing compared to what MOST people have to do for work. If you can't handle this, kill yourself or shut the fuck up!

+1

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Heartford
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Re: Running from the Law

Postby Heartford » Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:03 pm

Just wanted to point out that this appears to have been written in 2002. The problem of associate retention has since been solved by the apocalyptic collapse of the economy.

(and any practical applicability to "life at big firms" might also be questionable nowadays...)

pasteurizedmilk
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Re: Running from the Law

Postby pasteurizedmilk » Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:06 pm

swc65 wrote:You know what? Whoever wrote this is a whiny bitch. Try tarring a roof in the middle of summer for 12 hours per day for min wage. Or, try getting shot at in a war zone for 40K per year. Or, try picking fruit for .06 per banana or chopping chickens in a factory until your right arm is three times of the size of your left and you cant use it anymore.

I am so sick of hearing lawyers bitch and moan that they work so many hours in such a stressful job. Sitting in a climate controlled office at computer reading or researching or writing is nothing compared to what MOST people have to do for work. If you can't handle this, kill yourself or shut the fuck up!

Seriously, where the hell are you going to make that much money and not work your ass off? If you went to law school for the money, then you deserve exactly what you get. If you don't like it GET THE FUCK OUT!!!! Open up a spot for someone else who would be happy to do the work for that much money.

Oh I dunno, I've worked some jobs like the ones you described it and I actually liked it. Work hard, see some tangible results, and then get off work - and really be done with work, no stress about it, none of it hanging over your head, etc.

I havent worked in a firm yet, so we'll see how it compares.

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swc65
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Re: Running from the Law

Postby swc65 » Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:10 pm

pasteurizedmilk wrote:
swc65 wrote:You know what? Whoever wrote this is a whiny bitch. Try tarring a roof in the middle of summer for 12 hours per day for min wage. Or, try getting shot at in a war zone for 40K per year. Or, try picking fruit for .06 per banana or chopping chickens in a factory until your right arm is three times of the size of your left and you cant use it anymore.

I am so sick of hearing lawyers bitch and moan that they work so many hours in such a stressful job. Sitting in a climate controlled office at computer reading or researching or writing is nothing compared to what MOST people have to do for work. If you can't handle this, kill yourself or shut the fuck up!

Seriously, where the hell are you going to make that much money and not work your ass off? If you went to law school for the money, then you deserve exactly what you get. If you don't like it GET THE FUCK OUT!!!! Open up a spot for someone else who would be happy to do the work for that much money.

Oh I dunno, I've worked some jobs like the ones you described it and I actually liked it. Work hard, see some tangible results, and then get off work - and really be done with work, no stress about it, none of it hanging over your head, etc.

I havent worked in a firm yet, so we'll see how it compares.



Yeah I see what you're saying, but most of those jobs will leave you physically disabled AND poor if you work them long enough. I have done summers in highschool on a farm and as a roofer, it wasn't too bad, but if I were still doing those things now, I would have a bad back, skin cancer, beer belly, and clogged arteries from eating Mcydees.... and not made anywhere near 3K per week!!!


Of course, working a lot of stressful hours in biglaw can be bad for your health, but it just doesn't compare to the damage that demanding constant physical labor does to a body.

Flanker1067
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Re: Running from the Law

Postby Flanker1067 » Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:29 pm

Lulz at swc. There is so much wrong there I can't even begin.

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MrKappus
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Re: Running from the Law

Postby MrKappus » Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:43 pm

Article was horribly dated. Made it hard to take any of it seriously.

OP: do you think no one is writing about law firms right now? Is that why you felt the need to post this?

Some things about biglaw probably never change, but I'm sure some do. I wouldn't read 10 year-old articles about golf clubs I want to buy, let alone professions I'm to enter. Just sayin'...

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francisConn
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Re: Running from the Law

Postby francisConn » Fri Feb 11, 2011 12:25 am

swc65 wrote:
pasteurizedmilk wrote:
swc65 wrote:You know what? Whoever wrote this is a whiny bitch. Try tarring a roof in the middle of summer for 12 hours per day for min wage. Or, try getting shot at in a war zone for 40K per year. Or, try picking fruit for .06 per banana or chopping chickens in a factory until your right arm is three times of the size of your left and you cant use it anymore.

I am so sick of hearing lawyers bitch and moan that they work so many hours in such a stressful job. Sitting in a climate controlled office at computer reading or researching or writing is nothing compared to what MOST people have to do for work. If you can't handle this, kill yourself or shut the fuck up!

Seriously, where the hell are you going to make that much money and not work your ass off? If you went to law school for the money, then you deserve exactly what you get. If you don't like it GET THE FUCK OUT!!!! Open up a spot for someone else who would be happy to do the work for that much money.

Oh I dunno, I've worked some jobs like the ones you described it and I actually liked it. Work hard, see some tangible results, and then get off work - and really be done with work, no stress about it, none of it hanging over your head, etc.

I havent worked in a firm yet, so we'll see how it compares.



Yeah I see what you're saying, but most of those jobs will leave you physically disabled AND poor if you work them long enough. I have done summers in highschool on a farm and as a roofer, it wasn't too bad, but if I were still doing those things now, I would have a bad back, skin cancer, beer belly, and clogged arteries from eating Mcydees.... and not made anywhere near 3K per week!!!


Of course, working a lot of stressful hours in biglaw can be bad for your health, but it just doesn't compare to the damage that demanding constant physical labor does to a body.



I don't know, I think I'd prefer cancer and/or poverty in the long term to being a more or less absent husband and father.

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A'nold
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Re: Running from the Law

Postby A'nold » Fri Feb 11, 2011 12:33 am

swc65 wrote:You know what? Whoever wrote this is a whiny bitch. Try tarring a roof in the middle of summer for 12 hours per day for min wage. Or, try getting shot at in a war zone for 40K per year. Or, try picking fruit for .06 per banana or chopping chickens in a factory until your right arm is three times of the size of your left and you cant use it anymore.

I am so sick of hearing lawyers bitch and moan that they work so many hours in such a stressful job. Sitting in a climate controlled office at computer reading or researching or writing is nothing compared to what MOST people have to do for work. If you can't handle this, kill yourself or shut the fuck up!

Seriously, where the hell are you going to make that much money and not work your ass off? If you went to law school for the money, then you deserve exactly what you get. If you don't like it GET THE FUCK OUT!!!! Open up a spot for someone else who would be happy to do the work for that much money.


Haha. I know people will give this guy crap but he is right on in a lot of what he just said.

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swc65
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Re: Running from the Law

Postby swc65 » Fri Feb 11, 2011 1:17 am

Yeah obliviously my post was highly hyperbolic. However, I stand by the premise that the writer is a giant whiny douche.

And if you really think you'd rather live in poverty than work too much and make a good living, then I doubt you understand what poverty really is. Most people living in poverty are to hungry/worried about where they are going to live to spend and real time with their kids. Not to mention that people in poverty have a whole host of other problems that are objectively much worse than not getting to see their families all that often.


As far as preferring cancer??? That just seems nuts. really you'd rather be dead/sick than busy at work?

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AreJay711
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Re: Running from the Law

Postby AreJay711 » Fri Feb 11, 2011 1:42 am

pasteurizedmilk wrote:
swc65 wrote:You know what? Whoever wrote this is a whiny bitch. Try tarring a roof in the middle of summer for 12 hours per day for min wage. Or, try getting shot at in a war zone for 40K per year. Or, try picking fruit for .06 per banana or chopping chickens in a factory until your right arm is three times of the size of your left and you cant use it anymore.

I am so sick of hearing lawyers bitch and moan that they work so many hours in such a stressful job. Sitting in a climate controlled office at computer reading or researching or writing is nothing compared to what MOST people have to do for work. If you can't handle this, kill yourself or shut the fuck up!

Seriously, where the hell are you going to make that much money and not work your ass off? If you went to law school for the money, then you deserve exactly what you get. If you don't like it GET THE FUCK OUT!!!! Open up a spot for someone else who would be happy to do the work for that much money.

Oh I dunno, I've worked some jobs like the ones you described it and I actually liked it. Work hard, see some tangible results, and then get off work - and really be done with work, no stress about it, none of it hanging over your head, etc.

I havent worked in a firm yet, so we'll see how it compares.

What milk said. TBF, I know plenty of construction workers who are also whiny bitches so I still agree that the guy in the article is a whiny bitch.

Also, OP you really posted that whole article!?

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TommyK
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Re: Running from the Law

Postby TommyK » Fri Feb 11, 2011 1:55 am

swc65 wrote:Yeah obliviously my post was highly hyperbolic. However, I stand by the premise that the writer is a giant whiny douche.

And if you really think you'd rather live in poverty than work too much and make a good living, then I doubt you understand what poverty really is. Most people living in poverty are to hungry/worried about where they are going to live to spend and real time with their kids. Not to mention that people in poverty have a whole host of other problems that are objectively much worse than not getting to see their families all that often.


As far as preferring cancer??? That just seems nuts. really you'd rather be dead/sick than busy at work?


K, I'll bite.

The author didn't say he'd rather live in poverty than work too much and pull down the cash. That was an associate that had quit prior to him. And when people quit, they often use hyperbole.

It sounds like the author came to the incredibly rational realization that there was a third option between riches/no life and poverty/plenty of family time. That was a career outside of biglaw in which he could watch a kid play a little league game, be able to enjoy a vacation, and enjoy the little and big things in life outside of work.

And regarding cancer, I wasn't that poster so I can't speak for him, but maybe he feels like being an active parent is a sublime joy and fundamental aspect of life for him. It's about a value system that is likely very different from yours, which is fine.

And to call working 3,000 hours+ per year "busy at work" seems like a bit of an understatement. Also, for many of these associates, it sounds like they felt like their tasks were brain-numbingly boring. I've had a job in which I would work 60-70 hours per week on a very regular basis. I'm sure many other people on this forum have as well. Some people thrive in that environment. I had co-workers that ate it up, that defined their self-worth on their monthly hour submissions. It's for some people; it's not for everybody.

I think the author's narrative is an important (albeit a bit dated) one and serves as a valuable and interesting counterweight to the glamor and glitz of the biglaw lifestyle that many people pursue without fully understanding the commitments we would be making

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TommyK
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Re: Running from the Law

Postby TommyK » Fri Feb 11, 2011 1:57 am

AreJay711 wrote:Also, OP you really posted that whole article!?


Aye, he did. Christ, it was long.

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francisConn
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Re: Running from the Law

Postby francisConn » Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:05 am

swc65 wrote:Yeah obliviously my post was highly hyperbolic. However, I stand by the premise that the writer is a giant whiny douche.

And if you really think you'd rather live in poverty than work too much and make a good living, then I doubt you understand what poverty really is. Most people living in poverty are to hungry/worried about where they are going to live to spend and real time with their kids. Not to mention that people in poverty have a whole host of other problems that are objectively much worse than not getting to see their families all that often.


As far as preferring cancer??? That just seems nuts. really you'd rather be dead/sick than busy at work?



hahaha. My only point is that if my work encroaches on healthy family life, as it apparently does for many or most in biglaw, then it ceases to be worth it. Let me put it this way: I'd rather be lower middle class and a good husband/father than have biglaw and a wife who wants to divorce me.

I'm not talking about being averse to hard work and long hours, just only insofar as those things force me to neglect the more important parts of my life.

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TommyK
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Re: Running from the Law

Postby TommyK » Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:09 am

francisConn wrote:
swc65 wrote:Yeah obliviously my post was highly hyperbolic. However, I stand by the premise that the writer is a giant whiny douche.

And if you really think you'd rather live in poverty than work too much and make a good living, then I doubt you understand what poverty really is. Most people living in poverty are to hungry/worried about where they are going to live to spend and real time with their kids. Not to mention that people in poverty have a whole host of other problems that are objectively much worse than not getting to see their families all that often.


As far as preferring cancer??? That just seems nuts. really you'd rather be dead/sick than busy at work?



hahaha. My only point is that if my work encroaches on healthy family life, as it apparently does for many or most in biglaw, then it ceases to be worth it. Let me put it this way: I'd rather be lower middle class and a good husband/father than have biglaw and a wife who wants to divorce me.

I'm not talking about being averse to hard work and long hours, just only insofar as those things force me to neglect the more important parts of my life.


And I think the author makes the pretty clear point that it's not just the hours and the miserably boring work; it's the unpredictability. Leaving a vacation one day in it, having to review faxes while in the early stages of labor, missing out on your kids plays, getting a stack of work at 5pm on Friday when you have dinner plans with your wife, missing your niece's baptism... 60 hours a week sucks, but when you can't plan it and you're always on call, you'll have trouble holding a family together.

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francisConn
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Re: Running from the Law

Postby francisConn » Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:27 am

TommyK wrote:
francisConn wrote:
swc65 wrote:Yeah obliviously my post was highly hyperbolic. However, I stand by the premise that the writer is a giant whiny douche.

And if you really think you'd rather live in poverty than work too much and make a good living, then I doubt you understand what poverty really is. Most people living in poverty are to hungry/worried about where they are going to live to spend and real time with their kids. Not to mention that people in poverty have a whole host of other problems that are objectively much worse than not getting to see their families all that often.


As far as preferring cancer??? That just seems nuts. really you'd rather be dead/sick than busy at work?



hahaha. My only point is that if my work encroaches on healthy family life, as it apparently does for many or most in biglaw, then it ceases to be worth it. Let me put it this way: I'd rather be lower middle class and a good husband/father than have biglaw and a wife who wants to divorce me.

I'm not talking about being averse to hard work and long hours, just only insofar as those things force me to neglect the more important parts of my life.


And I think the author makes the pretty clear point that it's not just the hours and the miserably boring work; it's the unpredictability. Leaving a vacation one day in it, having to review faxes while in the early stages of labor, missing out on your kids plays, getting a stack of work at 5pm on Friday when you have dinner plans with your wife, missing your niece's baptism... 60 hours a week sucks, but when you can't plan it and you're always on call, you'll have trouble holding a family together.


Yes, bolded were pretty shocking. Also: having a partner drop a massive one-day-deadline project on you on Christmas eve. These are the things I wouldn't be able to tolerate.

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KibblesAndVick
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Re: Running from the Law

Postby KibblesAndVick » Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:29 am

If you go into biglaw planning on only doing it for a few years it's probably more bearable than if you're aiming to make partner. As bad of an experience as it may be the ability to pay off loans, create savings, and lateral into something less demanding seems like it's worth the sacrifice.




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