Mediocre fall grades; Advice Please

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Braindead
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Mediocre fall grades; Advice Please

Postby Braindead » Fri Jan 28, 2011 5:36 pm

I knew my chances of biglaw coming out from a T2 would be nearly impossible from the start, and with fall grades being released, I have come to accept that it is no longer an ideal goal. However, I will be in about 60k debt at graduation and would be satisfied with any job, hopefully a mid-sized firm.

I have gotten 3 of 4 grades back, and received each letter grade. A- (4 credits, B (3 credits), C+ (4 credits), ?? (4 credits). Without the last grade, I'm right at the median.

I have two 5 credit courses this spring, and was wondering if it would be possible to raise my gpa and hopefully land something during 2L oci. Or is it too late?

Thank you, to those who reply in advance. I would appreciate any insight or advice on a realistic outlook before I get into more debt. Thanks.

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uzpakalis
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Re: Mediocre fall grades; Advice Please

Postby uzpakalis » Fri Jan 28, 2011 6:11 pm

Guess what? Most of your peers are also at or around the median. Keep your head down, work harder, work smarter, go to office hours, etc...

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... =2&t=77628

Read this, do this, good luck.

random5483
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Re: Mediocre fall grades; Advice Please

Postby random5483 » Fri Jan 28, 2011 6:16 pm

Braindead wrote:I knew my chances of biglaw coming out from a T2 would be nearly impossible from the start, and with fall grades being released, I have come to accept that it is no longer an ideal goal. However, I will be in about 60k debt at graduation and would be satisfied with any job, hopefully a mid-sized firm.

I have gotten 3 of 4 grades back, and received each letter grade. A- (4 credits, B (3 credits), C+ (4 credits), ?? (4 credits). Without the last grade, I'm right at the median.

I have two 5 credit courses this spring, and was wondering if it would be possible to raise my gpa and hopefully land something during 2L oci. Or is it too late?

Thank you, to those who reply in advance. I would appreciate any insight or advice on a realistic outlook before I get into more debt. Thanks.





With median grades from a T2, Big Law is not a possibility. I mean you seem to feel it is not "ideal," but the truth is it is next to impossible (even if you book every class second semester, getting a big law OCI SA position will be a long shot). Median grades in the lower T14 schools makes big law hard to get, median grades in a lower tier school will make big law close to impossible.

Your total estimated debt of 60k works in your favor. Median grades from a T2 will likely result in some job, but it is hard to know what kind of job you will end up with. Your situation is not too bad though due to the low debt as long as you realize that big law is pretty much out of your reach via 2L OCI.

Many T2 students do not get SA jobs through OCI and must send applications out to firms/govt/etc. T2 schools get some big firms/etc for OCI but unlike the higher ranked schools, they have a lot fewer firms who participate in the OCI process. Basically, you will have to do more leg work to get a position next summer. However, with your low debt level and median grades from a T2 you should manage fine even in this bad economy.

Braindead
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Re: Mediocre fall grades; Advice Please

Postby Braindead » Fri Jan 28, 2011 6:27 pm

^^Thank you Random and uzpakalis. I knew it was a long shot at best, coming from a T2. With the grades putting me at the median, it is pretty much, like you mentioned, impossible.

Am I absolutely doomed with a C+ on a transcript? I feel as if this will ruin my chances of employment for any prospective employers looking at my transcript and even contemplated of just withdrawing this semester. However, I'm hesitant due to my fortunate low debt prospects and some people have advised to just stick out the spring semester and if I can raise my gpa. Thoughts?

Thank you.

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Nicholasnickynic
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Re: Mediocre fall grades; Advice Please

Postby Nicholasnickynic » Fri Jan 28, 2011 6:30 pm

Braindead wrote:^^Thank you Random and uzpakalis. I knew it was a long shot at best, coming from a T2. With the grades putting me at the median, it is pretty much, like you mentioned, impossible.

Am I absolutely doomed with a C+ on a transcript? I feel as if this will ruin my chances of employment for any prospective employers looking at my transcript and even contemplated of just withdrawing this semester. However, I'm hesitant due to my fortunate low debt prospects and some people have advised to just stick out the spring semester and if I can raise my gpa. Thoughts?

Thank you.



Does an A make you an auto accept at every firm? no.
Does a C doom you? no.

TigerBeer
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Re: Mediocre fall grades; Advice Please

Postby TigerBeer » Fri Jan 28, 2011 6:33 pm

Nicholasnickynic wrote:
Braindead wrote:^^Thank you Random and uzpakalis. I knew it was a long shot at best, coming from a T2. With the grades putting me at the median, it is pretty much, like you mentioned, impossible.

Am I absolutely doomed with a C+ on a transcript? I feel as if this will ruin my chances of employment for any prospective employers looking at my transcript and even contemplated of just withdrawing this semester. However, I'm hesitant due to my fortunate low debt prospects and some people have advised to just stick out the spring semester and if I can raise my gpa. Thoughts?

Thank you.



Does an A make you an auto accept at every firm? no.
Does a C doom you? no.


how inspiring....

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uzpakalis
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Re: Mediocre fall grades; Advice Please

Postby uzpakalis » Fri Jan 28, 2011 6:35 pm

dude, get a grip!!! you will be fine! 60k in total debt from a tier 2 is not the end of the world.

you are in much better shape than a vast majority of people in this country.

sure, you're not going to compete with the T14 for big law jobs, but it's not the end of the world. stay in school, you will get a decent job when you graduate. work hard, save some money, and then go out on your own. be your own boss, develop a name for yourself, and then you can make twice what 'big law' associates make.

Braindead
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Re: Mediocre fall grades; Advice Please

Postby Braindead » Fri Jan 28, 2011 7:03 pm

Thanks everyone for the encouraging words. After reading so many threads on TLS, the consensus seemed to be biglaw-or-bust. I just hope the market recovers in the near future, I've already come across 5 classmates who have withdrawn after their fall grades were issued, and thought I should be among them after seeing receiving a C+.

random5483
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Re: Mediocre fall grades; Advice Please

Postby random5483 » Fri Jan 28, 2011 7:41 pm

Braindead wrote:Thanks everyone for the encouraging words. After reading so many threads on TLS, the consensus seemed to be biglaw-or-bust. I just hope the market recovers in the near future, I've already come across 5 classmates who have withdrawn after their fall grades were issued, and thought I should be among them after seeing receiving a C+.



The world is not big law or bust. However, if you graduate with 150k+ in debt you pretty much need big law or you are out of luck. Some of the good schools have good LRAP programs and the government has some income based repayment programs, but the risk of taking that much debt without a decent job is probably a bad idea.


With 60k debt, you will be fine as long as you are not solely focused on big law. Median from a T2 is not going to make employers come running after you, but you should be able to find a job. It is not like you are median at a T4. Most T2s do fine when it comes to placing their graduates, they just don't place their graduates in big law (other than for a few at the top of their classes).

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iShotFirst
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Re: Mediocre fall grades; Advice Please

Postby iShotFirst » Fri Jan 28, 2011 7:45 pm

Some people would kill for that low debt load after graduation. Biglaw may be hard but there are still a lot of options, and with your low debt you don't definitely need a big high paying job anyways. Just figure out what you did wrong and fix it for the 5 semesters you have left.

Braindead
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Re: Mediocre fall grades; Advice Please

Postby Braindead » Fri Jan 28, 2011 7:53 pm

Thanks everyone for the helpful insights and comments. Guess I'll just stick it out and bump up my gpa to the best of my abilities. Thanks again.

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Nicholasnickynic
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Re: Mediocre fall grades; Advice Please

Postby Nicholasnickynic » Sat Jan 29, 2011 10:26 pm

TigerBeer wrote:
Nicholasnickynic wrote:
Braindead wrote:^^Thank you Random and uzpakalis. I knew it was a long shot at best, coming from a T2. With the grades putting me at the median, it is pretty much, like you mentioned, impossible.

Am I absolutely doomed with a C+ on a transcript? I feel as if this will ruin my chances of employment for any prospective employers looking at my transcript and even contemplated of just withdrawing this semester. However, I'm hesitant due to my fortunate low debt prospects and some people have advised to just stick out the spring semester and if I can raise my gpa. Thoughts?

Thank you.



Does an A make you an auto accept at every firm? no.
Does a C doom you? no.


how inspiring....


Look @ thread title. I'm pretty sure it says he's asking for advice, not for a pep talk from Coach K.
Last edited by Nicholasnickynic on Sun Jan 30, 2011 1:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

sccjnthn
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Re: Mediocre fall grades; Advice Please

Postby sccjnthn » Sat Jan 29, 2011 10:31 pm

Don't mean to rob the thread but any thoughts on bottom third at T20s?

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Stonewall
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Re: Mediocre fall grades; Advice Please

Postby Stonewall » Sat Jan 29, 2011 10:39 pm

sccjnthn wrote:Don't mean to rob the thread but any thoughts on bottom third at T20s?


you're in a tricky position. FWIW you still have a chance to raise up next semester and dominate or you can cut your losses and get out with minimum debtload. Personally I'd stick with it for another semester but it really comes down to how debt adverse you are

dakatz
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Re: Mediocre fall grades; Advice Please

Postby dakatz » Sat Jan 29, 2011 10:41 pm

sccjnthn wrote:Don't mean to rob the thread but any thoughts on bottom third at T20s?


You there on scholarship?

MrAnon
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Re: Mediocre fall grades; Advice Please

Postby MrAnon » Sun Jan 30, 2011 5:05 am

A C or a C+ from a school outside of the Top 6 or so really is dooming for a law career despite what people here will tell you. Biglaw will not touch a tier 2 student with a C. Hell, they won't touch a tier 2 student with a B! As for specialty jobs that are still interesting, you might be thinking of the DA or something like that. Well, again, there are going to plenty of grads without Cs who they have to choose from. It is really a difficult position to be in.

sccjnthn
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Re: Mediocre fall grades; Advice Please

Postby sccjnthn » Sun Jan 30, 2011 5:09 am

edit
Last edited by sccjnthn on Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

random5483
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Re: Mediocre fall grades; Advice Please

Postby random5483 » Sun Jan 30, 2011 5:12 am

MrAnon wrote:A C or a C+ from a school outside of the Top 6 or so really is dooming for a law career despite what people here will tell you. Biglaw will not touch a tier 2 student with a C. Hell, they won't touch a tier 2 student with a B! As for specialty jobs that are still interesting, you might be thinking of the DA or something like that. Well, again, there are going to plenty of grads without Cs who they have to choose from. It is really a difficult position to be in.


I think we have established that big law is out of the question. A single C from a T2 is not career dooming. Not to mention your idea of a C or a C+ outside of a T6 school being career dooming is a pretty big stretch. A T2 graduate with Cs might have a hard time getting a big law job (even with a high GPA), but a lower T14 grad with the occasional C and high GPA will not be automatically precluded from big law.

Anyways, the OP here is aware that big law is out of the question. Median grades from a T2 (with a few Cs mixed in) should get him a mediocre legal job. Factor in the low debt level and the OP is not in a bad position economically.

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Lawquacious
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Re: Mediocre fall grades; Advice Please

Postby Lawquacious » Sun Jan 30, 2011 5:22 am

Edit for failure to read. Poster immediately above already addressed my sentiment that Mr. Anon was way too strong with the idea of a C or C+ outside of the T6 being career dooming. But certainly if one is aiming to have even the slightest hope at a BigLaw internship out of a T2 as a 2L then I agree with the doom analysis barring a family connection or something similar (even that doesn't always help). That's a lot different than having no hope for a decent career though.
Last edited by Lawquacious on Sun Jan 30, 2011 5:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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MrKappus
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Re: Mediocre fall grades; Advice Please

Postby MrKappus » Sun Jan 30, 2011 5:33 am

OP: you need to wait for your last grade. When you have so few credits in your GPA, it makes zero sense to make predictions before you know your actual GPA. If you got an A, suddenly you're top 20ish % w/ another semester to go and the C+ is a true outlier. If it's another C+, then this entire thread's pointless, b/c yeah you'd be f*cked for biglaw. Also, you should be doing less of <this thread> and more <reading/studying for your classes>.

Don't waste my (and your) mutha f*ckin time!

--ImageRemoved--

savagecheater
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Re: Mediocre fall grades; Advice Please

Postby savagecheater » Sun Jan 30, 2011 9:49 am

He's about median at a T2 with a C+ on his resume and some of you are telling him to stick it out?

OP - on a scale of 1-10, how bad do you want to be a lawyer?

TigerBeer
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Re: Mediocre fall grades; Advice Please

Postby TigerBeer » Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:54 am

Braindead wrote:However, I will be in about 60k debt at graduation and would be satisfied with any job, hopefully a mid-sized firm.


Would you be satisfied doing doc review on a contract-by-contract basis with zero benefits? Many people in better positions than you end up doing exactly that. I would drop out- I can't think of many jobs more depressing than doc review.

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MrKappus
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Re: Mediocre fall grades; Advice Please

Postby MrKappus » Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:08 pm

lol at "one C+ = doc review"...are any of you [] actually 2L's that have gone through OCI, or are you just slingin' armchair advice from positions of no knowledge at all?

Edited.
Last edited by MrKappus on Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Nicholasnickynic
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Re: Mediocre fall grades; Advice Please

Postby Nicholasnickynic » Sun Jan 30, 2011 1:41 pm

I though armchair advice meant you knew more because of your position... i.e. its easy to be an arm chair quarterback...

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MrKappus
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Re: Mediocre fall grades; Advice Please

Postby MrKappus » Sun Jan 30, 2011 1:59 pm

^ You're thinking of Monday-AM quarterbacking. Armchair advice is advice from someone who thinks he knows more, but has never actually had to display/use that knowledge. Like 0L and 1L's telling people that C+, despite not even knowing OP's first semester GPA, means OP's going to be doing doc review after graduation.




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