Federal Appellate Externship or Firm?

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Which is better?

Firm
16
57%
Appellate Judge
12
43%
 
Total votes: 28

lawschooliseasy
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Federal Appellate Externship or Firm?

Postby lawschooliseasy » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:31 pm

If you could only do one, which would you pick for 1L summer? Firm doesn't pay market, but around $1,750 a week.

dakatz
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Re: Federal Appellate Externship or Firm?

Postby dakatz » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:34 pm

You managed to get an offer for a court of appeals internship? I would take that in a heartbeat. My friend did one and said it was gold when it came time for OCI since firms looked at it so highly.

lawschooliseasy
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Re: Federal Appellate Externship or Firm?

Postby lawschooliseasy » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:41 pm

dakatz wrote:You managed to get an offer for a court of appeals internship? I would take that in a heartbeat. My friend did one and said it was gold when it came time for OCI since firms looked at it so highly.


Worth forgoing the money, then?

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Drake014
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Re: Federal Appellate Externship or Firm?

Postby Drake014 » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:42 pm

lawschooliseasy wrote:
dakatz wrote:You managed to get an offer for a court of appeals internship? I would take that in a heartbeat. My friend did one and said it was gold when it came time for OCI since firms looked at it so highly.


Worth forgoing the money, then?


Usually a 1L Biglaw firm gig is still a possible job offer. What are your grades, finances, and career goals?

dakatz
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Re: Federal Appellate Externship or Firm?

Postby dakatz » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:46 pm

lawschooliseasy wrote:
dakatz wrote:You managed to get an offer for a court of appeals internship? I would take that in a heartbeat. My friend did one and said it was gold when it came time for OCI since firms looked at it so highly.


Worth forgoing the money, then?


I definitely think so. A CoA internship is very hard to come by and is something very prestigious to put on your resume. Firms will eat that up come OCI. Lots of 1L's that apply will have worked at firms this past summer. Very few will have done internships with CoA judges

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Lawl Shcool
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Re: Federal Appellate Externship or Firm?

Postby Lawl Shcool » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:47 pm

Getting paid > not getting paid.

Possibility of another (paying) offer for next summer > no possibility of another (paying) offer.

Take the firm.

1L work only matter to the extent at which you can talk about it during OCI. Both opportunities will provide that, so take the $ and throw a party for the rest of your unpaid 1L friends.

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Drake014
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Re: Federal Appellate Externship or Firm?

Postby Drake014 » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:48 pm

Lawl Shcool wrote:Getting paid > not getting paid.

Possibility of another (paying) offer for next summer > no possibility of another (paying) offer.

Take the firm.

1L work only matter to the extent at which you can talk about it during OCI. Both opportunities will provide that, so take the $ and throw a party for the rest of your unpaid 1L friends.


This was my general thought, but it really depends on where he goes to school, what his career goals are, what his financial sitaution, etc. If he's in the top 5% of his class at HYS and he comes from a wealthy background, he may as well take the unpaid position.

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Lawl Shcool
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Re: Federal Appellate Externship or Firm?

Postby Lawl Shcool » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:51 pm

dakatz wrote:
lawschooliseasy wrote:
dakatz wrote:You managed to get an offer for a court of appeals internship? I would take that in a heartbeat. My friend did one and said it was gold when it came time for OCI since firms looked at it so highly.


Worth forgoing the money, then?


I definitely think so. A CoA internship is very hard to come by and is something very prestigious to put on your resume. Firms will eat that up come OCI. Lots of 1L's that apply will have worked at firms this past summer. Very few will have done internships with CoA judges


Ehhhh I don't know about that noise. Almost everybody I knew 1L year worked for a judge and only a few had firm gigs. Anecdotal but relevant.

Also CoA clerkships are ultra prestigious, internships not so much.

lawschooliseasy
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Re: Federal Appellate Externship or Firm?

Postby lawschooliseasy » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:52 pm

Top 1-2% at a T30. Career goals are appellate clerkship followed by biglaw job. At a T30. Paying for my own school, so money is very nice.

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Lawl Shcool
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Re: Federal Appellate Externship or Firm?

Postby Lawl Shcool » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:52 pm

Drake014 wrote:
Lawl Shcool wrote:Getting paid > not getting paid.

Possibility of another (paying) offer for next summer > no possibility of another (paying) offer.

Take the firm.

1L work only matter to the extent at which you can talk about it during OCI. Both opportunities will provide that, so take the $ and throw a party for the rest of your unpaid 1L friends.


This was my general thought, but it really depends on where he goes to school, what his career goals are, what his financial sitaution, etc. If he's in the top 5% of his class at HYS and he comes from a wealthy background, he may as well take the unpaid position.


Good point on the goals. I was assuming that biglaw generally was the goal.

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wiseowl
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Re: Federal Appellate Externship or Firm?

Postby wiseowl » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:52 pm

I voted firm sight unseen, but I think it matters somewhat which firm, which market, and which judge, and since we're unlikely to get that, I voted firm.

Many, if not most CoAs are not in session during the summer. So you're more than likely going to be cleaning up old opinions or helping the judge write a law review article. Judge may not even be there. Could be cool, could be a total waste of time.

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Drake014
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Re: Federal Appellate Externship or Firm?

Postby Drake014 » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:59 pm

lawschooliseasy wrote:Top 1-2% at a T30. Career goals are appellate clerkship followed by biglaw job. At a T30. Paying for my own school, so money is very nice.


Would you want to work at the firm that offers you the 1L position? Unless your writing is shit, you're just about guaranteed your goals if you keep up the top 1-2% regardless of which position you take. I'd probably take the money.

lawschooliseasy
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Re: Federal Appellate Externship or Firm?

Postby lawschooliseasy » Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:00 am

wiseowl wrote:Many, if not most CoAs are not in session during the summer. So you're more than likely going to be cleaning up old opinions or helping the judge write a law review article. Judge may not even be there. Could be cool, could be a total waste of time.


Seriously? That changes things considerably.

Do judges often hire former externs as clerks?

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wiseowl
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Re: Federal Appellate Externship or Firm?

Postby wiseowl » Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:06 am

lawschooliseasy wrote:
wiseowl wrote:Many, if not most CoAs are not in session during the summer. So you're more than likely going to be cleaning up old opinions or helping the judge write a law review article. Judge may not even be there. Could be cool, could be a total waste of time.


Seriously? That changes things considerably.

Do judges often hire former externs as clerks?


This was true on the circuit I interviewed on last summer (4th). It may not be applicable everywhere. I know the 3rd Circuit hears cases in the summer.

Also, courts might not handle oral arguments, but they'll likely have interlocutory appeals and other such motions.

I shouldn't have been so quick above to dismiss the opportunity, but I maintain that a district court gets more "interesting" action, especially in the summer.

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Tangerine Gleam
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Re: Federal Appellate Externship or Firm?

Postby Tangerine Gleam » Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:08 am

Firm. COA is badass, but people I know who did that their 1L summers didn't seem to think that it was a big deal at OCI. Go for the $17k!




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