Bombed 1L Fall Semester...COULD USE SOME ADVICE Forum

[Mich_Guy]

I'm a 1L at Wake. I just bombed my first semester grade-wise with a 70...THATS RIGHT, A 70 average.

Here are my pre-lawschool intangles:
BSEE (That's Electrical Engineering)
MBA in Finance
5 years WE as an Engineer in Bio-Pharma industry
2 years WE (post-MBA) in BigBanking as a VP


Now here is where I could use some input:
A. I was thinking strongly of IP before fall semester grades came out, but now I know my shot at getting into a BigLaw IP shop is nil.
B. I am now considering pursuit of a career in the non-legal world as a consultant working for a company like Deloitte, OR
C. I am thinking of going back into corporate banking after law school....assuming that I graduate.

Questions for TLS:
1. Should I just drop out of law school now by cutting my losses? Next step would be to jump back into the MBA job market and pursue nnon-legal career options outlined above.

2. Should I hang in there, stick it out, and try to finish law school (FS1L grades aside) and still aim for those same non-legal career options outlined above?

3. Do non-legal firms like banks and consulting compaies even care about law school grades?

Thanks for your feedback.

Mich_Guy

[5ky]

70 means nothing to me, I don't know what that means. Why on earth did you decide to go to law school (at Wake) with your background? I vote drop out because you shouldn't have gone in the first place.

[TigerBeer]

hard to comment without knowing your financial/personal situation and your long term career goals.

but assuming those things are the same for you as for me: drop out.

[Arrow]

I'm a 1L at Wake. I just bombed my first semester grade-wise with a 70...THATS RIGHT, A 70 average.

Here are my pre-lawschool intangles:
BSEE (That's Electrical Engineering)
MBA in Finance
5 years WE as an Engineer in Bio-Pharma industry
2 years WE (post-MBA) in BigBanking as a VP


Now here is where I could use some input:
A. I was thinking strongly of IP before fall semester grades came out, but now I know my shot at getting into a BigLaw IP shop is nil.
B. I am now considering pursuit of a career in the non-legal world as a consultant working for a company like Deloitte, OR
C. I am thinking of going back into corporate banking after law school....assuming that I graduate.

Questions for TLS:
1. Should I just drop out of law school now by cutting my losses? Next step would be to jump back into the MBA job market and pursue nnon-legal career options outlined above.

2. Should I hang in there, stick it out, and try to finish law school (FS1L grades aside) and still aim for those same non-legal career options outlined above?

3. Do non-legal firms like banks and consulting compaies even care about law school grades?

Thanks for your feedback.

Mich_Guy

Honestly, if you have any interest in patent prosecution, you should consider it. You have a much desired EE background, with the much desired 5+ years of engineering work experience. Firms (at least at my school) are constantly looking for people like you, and pay top notch for it. If you pass the patent bar, and have an interest in this field, I am sure you can get a great job despite your grades (and because I have seen it happen to my friends in similar positions).

If you already had an awesome VP job, I can understand how going back is tempting, so it really decides on your interests. Consulting companies also hire JD's (a few do stop by our school every now and then), so having a JD and then doing consulting could help. In your situation, if you do not have a strong interest in the law, then perhaps your old jobs are the way to go (considering how awesome they are).

[flcath]

I apologize for not addressing your post, but my counter-question is just much more interesting to me.

Why did you go to LS in the first place?

[dakatz]

Is a 70 a C- average? If so, I would probably consider leaving law school. You obviously have things to fall back on. And given your performance in law school, the jobs you have to fall back on will likely be far more lucrative to you. Not even sure why you went to law school in the first place, but to each his own.

[Mich_Guy]

[quote][/quote]

OP here....honestly the 70 average equates to a "C" grade overrall. At my law school you need a 73 in order to stay in the program, so obviously I need to write something like an 80 average this semester to get above that threshold (the "curve" at my school is an 85 BTW).

Also, someone asked the question why did I go to law school in the first place. My answer to this question is basically that I chose law school because it was a long standing goal of mine to get a dual degree. Secondly, I chose to attend law school because I was downsized from $100K + banking job in 2009 and needed to retool in order to make myself competitive for the new job market.

Finally, I am really torn because I know that if I stick it out and complete the JD, I'll be one of a select few people with my combination of credentials (BSEE + MBA + JD)....I'm all about standing out.

Also, I'm a URM.

So again, should I quit now? Or should I stick and stay??

Thanks for your feedback...

[wiseowl]

Are you from MI? Do you want to go back there?

Wake's name just doesn't carry all that far sometimes, especially outside of around a 1 state radius. And unfortunately, especially with C grades.

[Younger Abstention]

I'd just get out now, and I don't tell most people that.

You don't need law school and you don't have an aptitude for it (though you are clearly very intelligent). It will be an uphill battle, and likely a waste of your time.

[09042014]

You were successful in other fields I'd go back to them.

Your only shot is to get a patent prosecution job, and that is only if you have good UG grades or good technical work experience.

Can you get a refund on tuition for this semester still?

[LogosEther]

Did you give your first semester 100%? Did you do practice tests? I mean it sounds like you're mature and you did, but just asking. I agree with what everyone else above said, unless there is some reason that you won't keep getting 70's and will significantly improve. Do you have buddies who got A's who would be willing to teach you the art of taking law school exams?

[worldtraveler]

Have you talked to your professors yet about what went wrong? Talk to them first before making any decisions.

[09042014]

If I were you I'd see if you got any pre selects at Loyola patent fair, and if you don't, drop out.

[Mich_Guy]

I apologize for not addressing your post, but my counter-question is just much more interesting to me.

Why did you go to LS in the first place?

@ flcath:

Like I said earlier in my post, I went to law school because it was a long standing personal goal and because I seriously considered a career in the patent law arena. Not too mention, it would not be a bad combination to have a JD MBA

[Mich_Guy]

If I were you I'd see if you got any pre selects at Loyola patent fair, and if you don't, drop out.

The 1L job fair preselection process isn't open yet to 1Ls. I have thought about pursuing opportunities through the Loyola fair, as patent attorneys are still in relatively high demand....however with my grades, I am skeptical that I will even be able to get any preselects.

[Mich_Guy]

Did you give your first semester 100%? Did you do practice tests? I mean it sounds like you're mature and you did, but just asking. I agree with what everyone else above said, unless there is some reason that you won't keep getting 70's and will significantly improve. Do you have buddies who got A's who would be willing to teach you the art of taking law school exams?

@ LogosEther:

To tell you the truth, I did not give it 100%...I didn't brief every case last semester, and I only took a couple of practice exams. In addition, I didn't do my own outlines, I ended up copying the outlines from students who had the same professor last year.

[tarp]

There you go. You didn't study hard enough.

Clearly you have the intelligence to do well in law school. There are a lot of idiots who go to law school, graduate, and become attorneys.

You just need to put in the EFFORT, which is the bulk of it. Write your OWN outline because that is how you learn. Don't brief every case but at least take down relevant notes for every case. Don't waste time looking at other people's outlines. Get the supplement books like Examples & Explanations and Emanuels and study all the questions in them. Then you will do well.

[Mich_Guy]

There you go. You didn't study hard enough.

Clearly you have the intelligence to do well in law school. There are a lot of idiots who go to law school, graduate, and become attorneys.

You just need to put in the EFFORT, which is the bulk of it. Write your OWN outline because that is how you learn. Don't brief every case but at least take down relevant notes for every case. Don't waste time looking at other people's outlines. Get the supplement books like Examples & Explanations and Emanuels and study all the questions in them. Then you will do well.

That is exactly what I plan to do this semester...in fact, I plan to start outlining 2 months early in addition to taking multiple practice exams to the extent that I can....

[CanadianWolf]

Assuming that your financial situation is good, then you should stay for the remainder of your first year & try to improve your grades by approaching your studies in a different fashion.
Don't use others' course outlines. A significant part of learning in law school is derived from creating your own class notes & outlines because these practices force you to organize, struggle with & understand the material.

[Black-Blue]

I would drop out. There's no chance of getting biglaw IP when you're at the bottom of the class.

Your business background might be useful for some small shop IP firms to bring in business, but it is not easy to leverage that because partners don't want associates influencing rainmaking at such an early stage.

You just need to put in the EFFORT, which is the bulk of it. Write your OWN outline because that is how you learn. Don't brief every case but at least take down relevant notes for every case. Don't waste time looking at other people's outlines. Get the supplement books like Examples & Explanations and Emanuels and study all the questions in them. Then you will do well.

Ultimately, it's important for you to find what works for YOU.

[BaronDetroit]

Certainly, it appears you should continue. You still appear to enjoy law and as long as you simply graduate you'll be fine with that background. If you had a 100k banking job just sitting there waiting for you to drop out that might change the decision tree- but certainly with these facts I would just focus on this semester.

Does Wake Forest have any academic attrition? You may very well have put in the required effort/work, but the curve is a brutal reminder that no matter how good you do- its predicated on ensuring you do better than your peers.

[Mich_Guy]

Assuming that your financial situation is good, then you should stay for the remainder of your first year & try to improve your grades by approaching your studies in a different fashion.
Don't use others' course outlines. A significant part of learning in law school is derived from creating your own class notes & outlines because these practices force you to organize, struggle with & understand the material.

@ CanadianWolf...

Well said, I am obviously going to have to scrap the way I prepared last semester and revamp my whole study routine. This includes changing my approach to practicing with old exams, E & Es, and practice problems.

As to your point about my financial situation...I used student loans to pay for tuition, so I am on the hook for the $$ regardless if I drop out now or if I wait until the end of this semester. At least if I stick it out this semester, I can give it one last shot. Worse case scenario is that I bomb again and in that case, I won't be asked to come back anyway.

your thoughts?

[General Tso]

Assuming that your financial situation is good, then you should stay for the remainder of your first year & try to improve your grades by approaching your studies in a different fashion.
Don't use others' course outlines. A significant part of learning in law school is derived from creating your own class notes & outlines because these practices force you to organize, struggle with & understand the material.

I am doing pretty well by using others' outlines.

[Mich_Guy]

Certainly, it appears you should continue. You still appear to enjoy law and as long as you simply graduate you'll be fine with that background. If you had a 100k banking job just sitting there waiting for you to drop out that might change the decision tree- but certainly with these facts I would just focus on this semester.

Does Wake Forest have any academic attrition? You may very well have put in the required effort/work, but the curve is a brutal reminder that no matter how good you do- its predicated on ensuring you do better than your peers.

Thanks for the feedback...BTW, Wake does have academic attrition. If you don't maintain at least a 73% average after your first year, you are asked not to return.

As for my strategy going forward, I am in the process of looking over all my old exams, talking 1 on 1 with each of my professors, using better study aids, and practicing exam answers much earlier int he semester than I did last time.

In terms of my career options, I potentially have a banking internship (non-legal) lined up and am considering pursuing either banking or management consulting as a career choice. So we'll see how things work out.

[CanadianWolf]

@General Tso: Different people learn differently. This thread is about the OP & using outlines created by others has not worked, thus another approach should be used.