Law degree utility for non-practicing attorneys

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johnnyutah
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Re: Law degree utility for non-practicing attorneys

Postby johnnyutah » Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:20 pm

reasonable_man wrote:A lawyer who represents himself has a fool for a client.

Real men go pro se.

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mikeytwoshoes
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Re: Law degree utility for non-practicing attorneys

Postby mikeytwoshoes » Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:22 am

crEEp wrote:
reasonable_man wrote:No flame here. But frankly, a JD has zero utility for a practicing lawyer (beyond allowing you to take the bar exam), let alone a non-practicing lawyer. If you're enjoying yourself and "learning tons of new material" and that makes you happy, then awesome... Enjoy! But as far as the law degree having any value at all (beyond a really cool document to frame and hang on your wall), I'm sorry to say that I just don't really see it.


By that same logic,no degree has any utility beyond it being a really cool document with the medieval-style font hanging on your wall. What law degrees do, more than any other degree that I know of, is give your words some credibility when you're talking about something tangentially related to "law" (hint: everything). Even if you're not offering legal advice, it puts you into a unique position if you have other marketable skills (I'm an electrical engineer aspiring to get a phd after this).

With legal knowledge, which by necessity requires keeping up to date with case law and current research in specialty, I think I would be in an excellent position to work with start-ups to get off the ground, while avoiding many of the legal problems that may otherwise face. I'd just like to think that all of this isn't a massive waste of time.

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mikeytwoshoes
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Re: Law degree utility for non-practicing attorneys

Postby mikeytwoshoes » Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:41 am

--ImageRemoved--

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crEEp
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Re: Law degree utility for non-practicing attorneys

Postby crEEp » Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:35 am

mikeytwoshoes wrote:--ImageRemoved--


You can't be serious.

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sanpiero
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Re: Law degree utility for non-practicing attorneys

Postby sanpiero » Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:01 am

SeymourShowz wrote:
Nicholas Nickleby wrote:
reasonable_man wrote:
Nicholas Nickleby wrote:Many businessmen, entrepreneurs, I-bankers, agents, etc. have law degrees. Whether they would have ended up where they are without a law degree is up for debate.

I guess a JD could probably save you some legal fees on transactions you could do for yourself. Of course, you'd still be spending your time on them, and investing 3 years opportunity cost and tuition $ on the JD.



A lawyer who represents himself has a fool for a client.


Which is why i specifically said you could save yourself some money on transactional work--not representing one's self at trial.


I still don't think it's a very good idea. I mean, I'm having trouble remembering civil procedure that I studied last semester. Imagine how difficult it would be to remember the in and outs of something years after law school. And even if you had a perfect memory, law school just teaches you the basics. The only way to really learn anything with proficiency is to get out and do it, i.e., practice law. If you go straight from law school to the business world, representing yourself on anything other than a minor traffic ticket would be very risky business.


Obviously representing yourself in that situation is risky, as you wouldn't be a licensed attorney (you went "straight from law school to the business world"). Even if you did take the time to pass the bar, it would be somewhat risky. What you're missing is that there are hundreds of small business issues you are now better equipped to handle because you went to law school, e.g., registering a trademark, filing a patent, forming a business, drafting an operating agreement, drafting a shareholder agreement, etc. Clearly it would be better to take these issues to someone with 25 years of experience but most small businesses can't afford to do so. Not only that but, if you're reasonably intelligent, you can do just as well as some shmuck with years of experience; it'll just take you more time and effort.

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reasonable_man
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Re: Law degree utility for non-practicing attorneys

Postby reasonable_man » Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:35 am

johnnyutah wrote:
reasonable_man wrote:A lawyer who represents himself has a fool for a client.

Real men go pro se.



I cannot argue with this.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Law degree utility for non-practicing attorneys

Postby vanwinkle » Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:51 am

crEEp wrote:However, it warrants some consideration: is a lawyer's success or failure solely a function of grades and their school's level of prestige? Mostly, yeah.

This is a mild exaggeration, but what really boggles me is that you believe this and you still want someone to validate your plan to graduate from a non-top-school with poor grades. In some cases, I can see an argument that someone is more than their grades... but then you say this:

crEEp wrote:I don't get good grades in law school because I don't study.

I suspect the worthlessness of your law degree isn't what's holding you back in life.

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crEEp
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Re: Law degree utility for non-practicing attorneys

Postby crEEp » Thu Jan 20, 2011 4:12 pm

vanwinkle wrote:I suspect the worthlessness of your law degree isn't what's holding you back in life.


Who said I feel held back? You failed to ask the real question: why don't I study? It's not because I hate the material or lack the intellectual fortitude required to do well; I just don't have the time to study. I work full-time; law school is just a chance for me to 'relax' a little.

My point in originally posting was that I was curious how others perceive a law degree's utility after graduation. I got what I was looking for out of this thread, though: one camp believes that a law degree is worthless unless you graduate from a T14 with top grades and become a big law slave attorney, while the other believes that a law degree is honestly what you make of it.

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gman
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Re: Law degree utility for non-practicing attorneys

Postby gman » Sat Jan 22, 2011 4:57 pm

crEEp wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:I suspect the worthlessness of your law degree isn't what's holding you back in life.


Who said I feel held back? You failed to ask the real question: why don't I study? It's not because I hate the material or lack the intellectual fortitude required to do well; I just don't have the time to study. I work full-time; law school is just a chance for me to 'relax' a little.

My point in originally posting was that I was curious how others perceive a law degree's utility after graduation. I got what I was looking for out of this thread, though: one camp believes that a law degree is worthless unless you graduate from a T14 with top grades and become a big law slave attorney, while the other believes that a law degree is honestly what you make of it.


Why would you make a thread to confirm that people value JDs differently? Doesn't that go without saying?

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vanwinkle
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Re: Law degree utility for non-practicing attorneys

Postby vanwinkle » Sat Jan 22, 2011 6:56 pm

crEEp wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:I suspect the worthlessness of your law degree isn't what's holding you back in life.

Who said I feel held back? You failed to ask the real question: why don't I study? It's not because I hate the material or lack the intellectual fortitude required to do well; I just don't have the time to study. I work full-time; law school is just a chance for me to 'relax' a little.

I didn't say you feel held back. I said you are being held back, and that it's by your own attitude. And the fact that you think it's okay to stay in school but not study and you should still get something valuable about it tells me enough about you. On top of that, the bit about you thinking "intellectual fortitude" is what matters is like a cherry on top. Whether or not you lack it, you're still doing it wrong.




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